Review Dogs 106 def Suns 87

[Bulldogs Legend]

• Not buying the Sweet love-in. He had 1 disposal for the match and 0 total markets for the match that was outside of the free kicks he won, Witts got on top of the game late. I'm not criticising him, I actually think he did as well as he could have been expected to given we know his VFL form, base expectations and the quality of player he's up against. He can certainly keep on developing and growing as a player. But English is coming straight back in the team for him, any idea of tandem rucks or the fact that he "was actually good" is kinda ridiculous. Didn't play worse than the expectations of a VFL player, and competed as well as I would have liked.
• It's been said enough how good Richards has played but I just want to give him credit for improving as a player after having 60-odd games and looking actually quite poor in a lot of it. I understand he was out of position for the good part of three years having to play wing and half-forward rather than his natural half-back, but footy is still footy and it's one of the more extraordinary turnarounds for a bloke, while young, had played enough league games that you can say was already in the middle part of his career. He's getting better and better.
• Cordy did some okay things. Agree lack of output is a worry for him, but he would have been dropped already and he played a better game than some of his more recent games.
• Scott's playing a good role on the wing, and some of the stoppage stuff on his side of the wing he had a job tagging Miller, and did a fantastic job at it. And he used the ball very well. 10 kicks and 4 handballs, but 13 of his disposals were still effective, Macrae also ran with Miller at stoppages and it's incredible how valuable Macrae is is to performing at a consistent role.
• McComb's hardness at the ball stood out, and he doesn't panic in traffic. The fact that he does panic outside of traffic is still a work in progress.
• Being on report played with Buku's head. He was woeful - mistiming leads, getting pushed under high balls, having virtually no influence on the game. if JUH played a game like that there'd be 50 posts in this thread already about it. Different expectations and starting points doesn't change the quality of output game. Potential suspension aside, there's a very decent chance that we simply have to take yet another look at Schache or JUH at least until Bruce comes back.
• O'Brien's very good last quarter saved him from a bad game, his first three were very poor. Stood up when it mattered.
• West generally used the ball fine when he had it but it's clear that he has some athletic limitations that might limit overall impact. Not much agility, didn't get a heap of separation against opponents, and is still 180cm. McComb's a much more decent chance to keep his spot if we want to rush Weightman back in, or if JJ comes back in a week or two I reckon.
• Bont will poll 3 in this game and assuming he hadn't polled 3 already this season (AFL Brownlow Predictor doesn't have him polling in a game this year), will end a spell of 12 games without polling a 3 going back to our Melbourne win last year. For a bloke who we've become accustomed to to playing at a top-10 in the league level for basically seven seasons now, it's good to see that kind of quality performance return after disappearing to an extent this year. It's a lot easier to win games, a lot else can go wrong, when you have the destructive force of one of the league's absolute best players playing to the standard. We've missed it.

Excellent post mate you nailed it

 

[Libbaaaa]

Willing to give TOB a break, but he is only a stop gap until the end of next year.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Sweet has competed well in the ruck, particularly this week. Don’t need to waste a whole page of this thread trying to argue around that to save face.

Yeah nah don’t need to waste any posts trying to justify Sweet just read 3 paddocks assessment but thanks for the advice

 

[Mutt]

Cordy wasn’t great but don’t underestimate the blocking chasing that the 2nd forward needs to do and I’m not sure Sweet could do it. The opposition would exploit the lack of run

The opposition exploited Cordy being hopeless at the second ruck position. Look at Oliver's posts if you need confirmation of this.

I'm not a Cordy basher (I don't bash any of our players) and I recognise that he blocks and does the team things when he plays up forward. That doesn't compensate enough for the very poor outcome for the team when Cordy goes into the ruck. Cordy should never be asked to play the role of an AFL ruckman. He may have utility in other roles but he's an abject failure as the second ruck. Not Cordy's fault...that's on the Match Committee.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Also 31 scoring shots after 29 last week is a real good sign. Hopefully next week we really ram home the advantage.

 

[Libba39]

Like the cut of Cleary's gib. Williams looking better up the ground too. Win win.

As I said earlier in the thread, Cleary shirked a couple of contests. Has great ability and looks like a 200 game player, but he will be lucky to avoid being droppd in my opinion.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Hard to see who’s spot in the 8 we would be most likely to get if we can find form. I thought it might be Saints but they are currently 2 games ahead. Tigers and Cats have easy draws. Maybe Swans?

The opposition exploited Cordy being hopeless at the second ruck position. Look at Oliver's posts if you need confirmation of this.

I'm not a Cordy basher (I don't bash any of our players) and I recognise that he blocks and does the team things when he plays up forward. That doesn't compensate enough for the very poor outcome for the team when Cordy goes into the ruck. Cordy should never be asked to play the role of an AFL ruckman. He may have utility in other roles but he's an abject failure as the second ruck. Not Cordy's fault...that's on the Match Committee.

Here, here. If we are going to second ruck Cordy at central bounces you may as well put another mid in there and have them roam the opposition’s tap.

Or time your interchanges better and don’t have someone like Cordy in the centre bounce during time on of quarters, absolute killer.

 

[TiAn_]

I know I got a few of them and I didn’t even know the existed.

Each to their own suppose but why would anyone bother

You’re here specifically to be critical of Sweet ad nauseam and to “get a few”. Why would anyone bother, indeed.

Anyway, to move the conversation on past one man’s righteous cause, McComb & Sweet are both limited players filling in and doing a job as well as they can. Their selections are understandable at the moment, but people aren’t wrong for preferring other options.

Very happy that McComb kicked a couple yesterday, hopefully he keeps that up, gets more consistent with ball in hand and carves out a spot for himself in a forward pocket in our best side.

Also very happy that Sweet was super competitive against Witts and actually won his fair share of hitouts and hitouts to advantage. Our mids didn’t have to spend the whole day sharking and chasing tail. Our team would be better served in the ruck by a mix of English and Sweet, but seems we’re held hostage a bit by English’s desire to do the bulk of the ruck work and whether or not Sweet can spend real minutes forward at AFL level. I think a split with English & Sweet is worth a try.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

The opposition exploited Cordy being hopeless at the second ruck position. Look at Oliver's posts if you need confirmation of this.

I'm not a Cordy basher (I don't bash any of our players) and I recognise that he blocks and does the team things when he plays up forward. That doesn't compensate enough for the very poor outcome for the team when Cordy goes into the ruck. Cordy should never be asked to play the role of an AFL ruckman. He may have utility in other roles but he's an abject failure as the second ruck. Not Cordy's fault...that's on the Match Committee.

Yep but who then? 4 disposals no marks and 3 of those from frees which equals the 3 he gave away is not instilling me with any confidence des the rose coloured glasses reviews

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

You’re here specifically to be critical of Sweet ad nauseam and to “get a few”. Why would anyone bother, indeed.

Anyway, to move the conversation on past one man’s righteous cause, McComb & Sweet are both limited players filling in and doing a job as well as they can. Their selections are understandable at the moment, but people aren’t wrong for preferring other options.

Very happy that McComb kicked a couple yesterday, hopefully he keeps that up, gets more consistent with ball in hand and carves out a spot for himself in a forward pocket in our best side.

Also very happy that Sweet was super competitive against Witts and actually won his fair share of hitouts and hitouts to advantage. Our mids didn’t have to spend the whole day sharking and chasing tail. Our team would be better served in the ruck by a mix of English and Sweet, but seems we’re held hostage a bit by English’s desire to do the bulk of the ruck work and whether or not Sweet can spend real minutes forward at AFL level. I think a split with English & Sweet is worth a try.

LOL not sure what you saw but any other player who returned those stats would be bagged unmercifully by this forum.

 

[TiAn_]

LOL not sure what you saw but any other player who returned those stats would be bagged unmercifully by this forum.

You are literally on this forum bagging him unmercifully.

 

[Mutt]

Yep but who then? 4 disposals no marks and 3 of those from frees which equals the 3 he gave away is not instilling me with any confidence des the rose coloured glasses reviews

The Coach was once again very positive in his comments about Sweet's game. He was also last week. Perhaps the Coach (who you so vehemently defend against any criticism, no matter how mild and balanced) is wearing rose-coloured glasses as well?

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

You are literally on this forum bagging him unmercifully.

Yeah nah I actually said he has played average when in the Ruck and has not shown much around the ground ability to suggest he could rest in Forward line. But if you see it differently thats ok but the stats don’t back your opinion at this stage. We will see what the future holds

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

The Coach was once again very positive in his comments about Sweet's game. He was also last week. Perhaps the Coach (who you so vehemently defend against any criticism, no matter how mild and balanced) is wearing rose-coloured glasses as well?

No perhaps not because he wasn’t playing yesterday or last week as a 2nd ruck unless I’m mistaken
sure play him ahead of Martin or when english is not but in my opinion and backed by his exposed form he won’t make it as a full time 2nd ruck unless he improves his marking and around the ground play. Now at his age it may happen or it may not but for posters to suggest yesterday or last week was proof it would are way off the mark

 

[Boof09]

I only watched on the TeeeeV.

From where I sat their talls didn't really threaten and had almost no effect on the game. Thats how I judge the performance of the back half talls. Indeed their only goal came from the foot of Chol that was a deliberate as the goal that the Bont kicked that turned at a right angle as it was going through for a point.

Chol and Casbault only needed to have their season average games and we would've lost given how much trouble we were having with their medium/small forwards.

Wasn't having a go just commenting on the fact within 5 posts there were polar opposite opinions on Gardner

 

[Mutt]

No perhaps not because he wasn’t playing yesterday or last week as a 2nd ruck unless I’m mistaken
sure play him ahead of Martin or when english is not but in my opinion and backed by his exposed form he won’t make it as a full time 2nd ruck unless he improves his marking and around the ground play. Now at his age it may happen or it may not but for posters to suggest yesterday or last week was proof it would are way off the mark

Nobody on here (that I've noticed) has claimed that Sweet will be a great second ruck. I'm suggesting that he is by far the best second ruck option we have this season, right now, and that Bevo should team him up with English when Tim returns to the team.

When even the Coach praises Sweet, you continue to bag him or damn him with faint praise. You claim that others are saying Sweet will be a good second ruck option long term just so you can continue to cast doubt or criticise him. A classic straw man argument that is getting tiresome.

 

[maddog37]

We look much better with an actual ruckman rucking than without. Who would of thought!?

Sweet competes which is more than our other options provide.

 

[ossie_21]

The talking down of Sweet’s game is silly. Although Witts dominated the hitouts by the end, his influence was definitely negated by Sweet staying competitive. The scoring whilst Sweet was off the ground speaks for itself.

Witts is a top 5 ruck in the league and generally always wins that stat, so that’s not to say Sweet was poor. He only took 2 marks for the game, which I believe were both in the last quarter as Sweet understandably was tiring. Not sure on the HO to advantage numbers, but it was hardly a Gawn-like lesson in rucking. I’d say Witts influence on the game was minimal, which is a credit to Sweet’s efforts.

Rucks take longer to develop than any other position, he’s done as much as what could be asked of him with less than 10 games under his belt. As a supporter of a team watching us get belted in the ruck ever since Minson was forced out, it’s a breath of fresh air. English was only really coming into his own before he got injured, even then sometimes he gets destroyed. O’Brien a few weeks back at the same venue absolutely gave him a bath, but I can’t really go back to that considering our entire team was down due to unfortunate circumstances, so we’ll say that was an outlier. (My bad here)

A Sweet/English combo is worth trying for at least a few weeks. Coming back from the flu, English could struggle as a solo ruck and fade out of games. It would be a bonus to play a bit more forward to also help Naughton and our structure, we can’t forget he was part of the “3-headed monster” that were firing with Astro/Bruce/English.

English’s ability around the ground makes us want a clone, but not having a viable second ruck option means we need to try a 2 ruck setup. It’s the same story when English is having a rest when he’s the solo ruck, we usually start getting put on the back foot.

I’d back our team to get things done when our incredibly mid-heavy side doesn’t need to get put under more pressure in those times we are left with the Cordy/Hannan/Dunkley scenarios, even if Sweet only played 50% of game time and was either rucking or on the bench.

tl;dr - Sweet had a good game, stop being absolute bed wetters

 

[doggies ftw]

We all agree our midfield is our one strength we have on other teams, we need the midfield to dominate to win and we if it doesn’t we lose. Simple.

Now let’s give it the best opportunity to do that by always having a genuine ruck in the ruck! Sweet 50 ruck/20 forward/30 bench, Timmy 50 ruck/40 elsewhere 10 bench

Let’s at the very least give it a bloody try

 

[Dazb86]

Watched the game on replay this morning.

Williams on a wing looked good. Good closing speed to force turnovers on risky kicks.

Ed was great again.

I feel bad for Sweet as he could probably play our #1 ruck role all year but he doesn't really excite me as a 2nd ruck due to his limitations around the ground/in the air. Perhaps they'll try English forward next week.

B.Smith keeps chugging along. Great season.

Treloar is also having a great year.

I don't think Vandemeer will make the 22 when he's available. A few of the replacements are looking much more assured with the ball in hand and still provide the same run and pressure.

Not sure who Weightman/JJ replace. Will be a couple unlucky guys.

Goal kicking needs work as always.

 

[Next Waiting]

The talking down of Sweet’s game is silly. Although Witts dominated the hitouts by the end, his influence was definitely negated by Sweet staying competitive. The scoring whilst Sweet was off the ground speaks for itself.

Probably requires a deeper look to be definitive. 10 scoring shots to 8 in the Suns favour so 25% more. The problem is arguably our inaccuracy. Suns 5.5 and Dogs 1.7

 

[Next Waiting]

As I said earlier in the thread, Cleary shirked a couple of contests. Has great ability and looks like a 200 game player, but he will be lucky to avoid being droppd in my opinion.

I missed those but wasn't at the game.

 

[Libba39]

I missed those but wasn't at the game.

There was a bad one in the last qtr. Needed to take a mark and instead just stuck his hand out into the probable path of the leading forward (who was still 2 or 3 steps away).
Harsh but you need to put your body on the line whether you're a 2nd gamer or a 200 gamer.

 

[Next Waiting]

There was a bad one in the last qtr. Needed to take a mark and instead just stuck his hand out into the probable path of the leading forward (who was still 2 or 3 steps away).
Harsh but you need to put your body on the line whether you're a 2nd gamer or a 200 gamer.

Will watch with interest the team selection this week. MC may see it the same way as you.

 

[Fossie 32]

There was a bad one in the last qtr. Needed to take a mark and instead just stuck his hand out into the probable path of the leading forward (who was still 2 or 3 steps away).
Harsh but you need to put your body on the line whether you're a 2nd gamer or a 200 gamer.

That was whacky, hopefully just a brainfade. But I don't think he needs to be dropped for just for a couple of mistakes in his second game. Preceded by Sweety giving away a dumb free by grabbing his opponent in the ruck contest Would be keeping him in too tho