Dogs land a beauty in Ugle-Hagan - but can they keep him?

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SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Clubs are spewing that the Dogs are getting first dibs and a discount on Jamarra Ugle-Hagan.

This is just sour grapes - every Vic club has got/will get a gun for massive unders via the NGA.

The question is whether the Dogs can keep him. Their own President admits they have a significant cultural problem when it comes to indigenous players, and it has cost them recruits.

It is the third time in as many years that the Dogs have failed to recruit an indigenous talent, largely because they do not have any indigenous players on their list.

In 2017 they heavily pursued Port Adelaide utility Jarman Impey, who dined with Bulldog leaders including Marcus Bontempelli at Crown Casino as he mulled their contract offer.

Impey’s close friend, Jackson Trengove, had signed at the Dogs as a free agent in recent weeks and was pushing Impey to join him.

But when Impey learned that there weren’t any indigenous players at the Bulldogs he instead accepted Hawthorn’s offer, where he played alongside superstars Cyril Rioli and Shaun Burgoyne.

The following year Chad Wingard was choosing between the Dogs and Hawks, but with Impey at Waverley Park and still no indigenous stars at the Dogs, the dual All-Australian picked Hawthorn.

Dogs president Peter Gordon has conceded that the club’s lack of indigenous players was likely to have dented their hopes of landing Wingard.

It is not at all difficult to envisage a scenario where one of the Melbourne clubs with strong indigenous representation and a respected history working with indigenous players like Richmond, North or Essendon making a big play.

Especially if there's cultural issues early on for Ugle-Hagan.

He may well go on to play 300 games for the Dogs, but at the moment, it looks like a real issue for them.
 

Sentinel

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Why don't you just refer to the other insightful thread you've started on this topic, it has all of the answers you're seeking.

 

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Cadillac

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Clubs are spewing that the Dogs are getting first dibs and a discount on Jamarra Ugle-Hagan.

This is just sour grapes - every Vic club has got/will get a gun for massive unders via the NGA.

The question is whether the Dogs can keep him. Their own President admits they have a significant cultural problem when it comes to indigenous players, and it has cost them recruits.




It is not at all difficult to envisage a scenario where one of the Melbourne clubs with strong indigenous representation and a respected history working with indigenous players like Richmond, North or Essendon making a big play.

Especially if there's cultural issues early on for Ugle-Hagan.

He may well go on to play 300 games for the Dogs, but at the moment, it looks like a real issue for them.
Yep. Looks like he absolutely hated staying with Bont and Dunks and the culture down at whiten oval.
34328536-226B-47D9-A110-6A1AABEE8797.jpeg
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Yep. Looks like he absolutely hated staying with Bont and Dunks and the culture down at whiten oval.
Impey had dinner with Bont and it didn't work.

A club promo shot tells us nothing.

Read what indigenous players at Richmond and North and other clubs say about the importance of having other blokes there.
 

ThePhreshOne

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Would love to have more indigenous representation at our club. You've got to start somewhere, though.

My prediction is that JUH will play great for us for a couple of years and that will entice more indigenous talent to come to the Dogs, not the other way around.

In any case, clubs will circle and rightfully so, he looks to be a brilliant prospect. Thankfully we've been pretty much flawless at player retention when it comes to retaining the players we actually want to retain.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Would love to have more indigenous representation at our club. You've got to start somewhere, though.

My prediction is that JUH will play great for us for a couple of years and that will entice more indigenous talent to come to the Dogs, not the other way around.

In any case, clubs will circle and rightfully so, he looks to be a brilliant prospect. Thankfully we've been pretty much flawless at player retention when it comes to retaining the players we actually want to retain.
Yeah good calls.

It doesn't take long to change and you're putting in the effort with Brett Goodes.
 

ThePhreshOne

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Yeah good calls.

It doesn't take long to change and you're putting in the effort with Brett Goodes.
I think it's just a case of us not having the players on the list, you're absolutely right in that indigenous players typically want to be surrounded by other indigenous players, the reason perhaps we've been unsuccessful in recruiting them is we've not had any on our list to begin with. I don't know if that can be described as a cultural issue, more of a cultural deficiency - I think..
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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I think it's just a case of us not having the players on the list, you're absolutely right in that indigenous players typically want to be surrounded by other indigenous players, the reason perhaps we've been unsuccessful in recruiting them is we've not had any on our list to begin with. I don't know if that can be described as a cultural issue, more of a cultural deficiency - I think..
Yeah, classic "where do you start" thing.

I think the fact that he's from Warrnambool and presumably Gunditjmara mob works for you here.

If he were a Noongar with fifty thousand other Bennells at home telling him to come back over, you would be in serious sh*t.

That said, watching the footage of Sydney Stack dancing before the Dreamtime game, and knowing how much importance North places on indigenous leadership within the group, if you were JUH and feeling, I don't know, not right, then you saw and heard about that stuff going on down the road, it mioght get interesting.
 

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mattwa

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It is just strange timing as he hasnt been at the club yet and by all reports cannot wait to come play for us. We do have a problem attracting indigenous talent to the club via FA, but I think retaining a player that has been involved with the club for years should be sweet. As posted i think it will benefit us in attracting more which the club has put a focus on doing. We swung hard and missed on Jack Martin and he probably moved to Carlton cause of Betts and SPS not that we treat indigenous players badly or anything. Retaining JUH isnt an problem
 

ThePhreshOne

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I think the OP is simply lacking context. 'Cultural problems' suggests there are people at the club actively against the idea of having indigenous representation. It doesn't specifically say that so I understand a lot of that is up to interpretation but I think the general consensus is that the issue we have in recruiting through free agency comes purely from there being no other indigenous representation at all. Which isn't a cultural problem.
 

RobR

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It is just strange timing as he hasnt been at the club yet and by all reports cannot wait to come play for us. We do have a problem attracting indigenous talent to the club via FA, but I think retaining a player that has been involved with the club for years should be sweet. As posted i think it will benefit us in attracting more which the club has put a focus on doing. We swung hard and missed on Jack Martin and he probably moved to Carlton cause of Betts and SPS not that we treat indigenous players badly or anything. Retaining JUH isnt an problem
Not probably, Martin has said that Betts and his cousin SPS were a big factor in choosing Carlton.
 

master bate

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Clubs are spewing that the Dogs are getting first dibs and a discount on Jamarra Ugle-Hagan.

This is just sour grapes - every Vic club has got/will get a gun for massive unders via the NGA.
Where's the evidence for that?

In 2013 the only Victorian Indigenous players on AFL lists were Adam Goodes, Brett Goodes, Andrew Walker, Nathan LM and Koby Stevens. From that group you'd say 1 team got a champion in Goodes and another team got a very good player in Walker.

Tarryn Thomas is a rare prospect coming out of Tassie and the NT zones have yet to be fruitful.

The multicultural aspect could produce some very good players. Quaynor is certainly one. But it depends on a lot of blind luck at this stage rather than actually working for immigrant communities to develop footballers.

At this stage North have got a huge advantage and the Bulldogs are in line for one, but it could take decades for some teams to get a first round pick quality player yet alone a star.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Where's the evidence for that?

In 2013 the only Victorian Indigenous players on AFL lists were Adam Goodes, Brett Goodes, Andrew Walker, Nathan LM and Koby Stevens. From that group you'd say 1 team got a champion in Goodes and another team got a very good player in Walker.

Tarryn Thomas is a rare prospect coming out of Tassie and the NT zones have yet to be fruitful.

The multicultural aspect could produce some very good players. Quaynor is certainly one. But it depends on a lot of blind luck at this stage rather than actually working for immigrant communities to develop footballers.

At this stage North have got a huge advantage and the Bulldogs are in line for one, but it could take decades for some teams to get a first round pick quality player yet alone a star.
That's why I said "will". Not everyone has yet.
 

Virgin Dog

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Where's the evidence for that?

In 2013 the only Victorian Indigenous players on AFL lists were Adam Goodes, Brett Goodes, Andrew Walker, Nathan LM and Koby Stevens. From that group you'd say 1 team got a champion in Goodes and another team got a very good player in Walker.

Tarryn Thomas is a rare prospect coming out of Tassie and the NT zones have yet to be fruitful.

The multicultural aspect could produce some very good players. Quaynor is certainly one. But it depends on a lot of blind luck at this stage rather than actually working for immigrant communities to develop footballers.

At this stage North have got a huge advantage and the Bulldogs are in line for one, but it could take decades for some teams to get a first round pick quality player yet alone a star.
Isaac Quaynor at the Pies? There's some really good ones coming through in the next couple of years, including Downie for the Hawks (top 10 prospect), McInnes for the Pies again (another top 10 prospect).

So two of what appears to be the current top 10 players in the 2020 draft are linked to Vic clubs. Then there's also a few huge talents in line for the SA and WA teams, as well as regular academy kids elsewhere in QLD and NSW.

The whole academy system is horrendously unfair, but to pick out the Dogs (who have never claimed a high value academy prospect) and North (who claimed one) is a bit odd, especially considering Quaynor for the Pies was arguably more contentious than Thomas at North, and was in the same draft around a similar range.
 

Mofra

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Yeah, classic "where do you start" thing.

I think the fact that he's from Warrnambool and presumably Gunditjmara mob works for you here.
We had a NGA kid (Cooper Craig-Peters) whose family are involved with the Gunditjmara mob. CCP designed our indigenous jumper in 2018.

He is set to sign with Footscray in the VFL for 2020 and has been heavily involved in the NGA program, outreach type stuff so we are setting some groundwork to attract/retain indigenous players at the club. We were very keen on Kosi Pickett too in the draft until Melbourne got him before us.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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I think the OP is simply lacking context. 'Cultural problems' suggests there are people at the club actively against the idea of having indigenous representation. It doesn't specifically say that so I understand a lot of that is up to interpretation but I think the general consensus is that the issue we have in recruiting through free agency comes purely from there being no other indigenous representation at all. Which isn't a cultural problem.
Yeah, to be clear I'm not suggesting any ye olde Hawthorn style "don't recruit anyone with skin darker than this" element, far from it.

The Dogs community attitude and engagement is great.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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We had a NGA kid (Cooper Craig-Peters) whose family are involved with the Gunditjmara mob. CCP designed our indigenous jumper in 2018.

He is set to sign with Footscray in the VFL for 2020 and has been heavily involved in the NGA program, outreach type stuff so we are setting some groundwork to attract/retain indigenous players at the club. We were very keen on Kosi Pickett too in the draft until Melbourne got him before us.
Interesting stuff, sounds making good progress.

I was down at Budj Bim late last year - astounding place.
 

Virgin Dog

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We had a NGA kid (Cooper Craig-Peters) whose family are involved with the Gunditjmara mob. CCP designed our indigenous jumper in 2018.

He is set to sign with Footscray in the VFL for 2020 and has been heavily involved in the NGA program, outreach type stuff so we are setting some groundwork to attract/retain indigenous players at the club. We were very keen on Kosi Pickett too in the draft until Melbourne got him before us.
The club is definitely laying the groundwork to build the kind of environment the indigenous players desire. As you mentioned, there's CCP, as well as Brett Goodes. We have clearly been targeting indigenous players in the last few trade periods (Impey, Martin, Wingard) and hopefully land one eventually - free agent Zac Williams seems the obvious choice since we still have spare cash and he fits a need.

I'm not too worried about the situation, as the club seems in a far better place than we were a few years ago
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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The club is definitely laying the groundwork to build the kind of environment the indigenous players desire. As you mentioned, there's CCP, as well as Brett Goodes. We have clearly been targeting indigenous players in the last few trade periods (Impey, Martin, Wingard) and hopefully land one eventually - free agent Zac Williams seems the obvious choice since we still have spare cash and he fits a need.

I'm not too worried about the situation, as the club seems in a far better place than we were a few years ago
It is fascinating how these things develop.

North (blokes team anyway) has never had an Irish import work. We've tried hard and got a few over, but it hasn't gelled. And now I wouldn't be surprised if we're getting a bit of a reputation - if you were an Irish player and had to choose between Geelong (who have two blokes playing senior footy, one of whom they've developed really well themselves in O'Connor) or North, you'd choose Geelong.
 

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