Review Dogs overcome first quarter blues to beat Hawks 125-83

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Dog 36

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Ruck yes team no

Correct me if I am wrong here but you say team because you think that Sweet apart from centre bounces and ruck contests he’s not much good anywhere else. You can mount an argument for that yes, but I would love to see what he can do if he rucked with English for a few games. At the moment most games he’s played he been the sole ruck because we have been forced to play him rather than play him for structure.

My point is Sweet plays we have more options with English Schache OBrien and whoever else rucks that what makes us more difficult for the other team.


You throw English forward for 10 min and have Sweet in ruck instead of Schache etc and still have Schache able to do what he does. Naughton would benefit JUH would also

Sweet English we are a different team IMO
 
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Jeff 1975

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I was surprised at how short Hawthorn are currently
We do quiet well against shorter teams, maybe there is something in that
 

Foxman98

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Correct me if I am wrong here but you say team because you think that Sweet apart from centre bounces and ruck contests he’s not much good anywhere else. You can mount an argument for that yes, but I would love to see what he can do if he rucked with English for a few games. At the moment most games he’s played he been the sole ruck because we have been forced to play him rather than play him for structure.

My point is Sweet plays we have more options with English Schache OBrien and whoever else rucks that what makes us more difficult for the other team.


You throw English forward for 10 min and have Sweet in ruck instead of Schache etc and still have Schache able to do what he does. Naughton would benefit JUH would also

Sweet English we are a different team IMO
Correct Sweet offers nothing but average tap work (10 to advantage 7 sharked) teams will exploit his lack of mobility and forward craft. This idea of moving English to accomodate Sweet is nonsensical English is somehow still in AA ruck talks despite the number of games he’s missed. He is our best ruckman Sweet broke even with Ned Reeves who would be a bottom 4 starting ruck currently. Sweet is a serviceable back up but no more unless he learns to impact around the ground or can get to a Naitanui level of tap work
 

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Dog 36

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Correct Sweet offers nothing but average tap work (10 to advantage 7 sharked) teams will exploit his lack of mobility and forward craft. This idea of moving English to accomodate Sweet is nonsensical English is somehow still in AA ruck talks despite the number of games he’s missed. He is our best ruckman Sweet broke even with Ned Reeves who would be a bottom 4 starting ruck currently. Sweet is a serviceable back up but no more unless he learns to impact around the ground or can get to a Naitanui level of tap work

Media went on about English replacing Gawn after GWS game but no one mentioned Pruess went off and there was no Flynn

English has his turn in bending over a Schache Corey Buku type not for 10 min but for more than a half.
 

Foxman98

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Media went on about English replacing Gawn after GWS game but no one mentioned Pruess went off and there was no Flynn

English has his turn in bending over a Schache Corey Buku type not for 10 min but for more than a half.
English is averaging 22 disposals almost a goal a game 6 marks 8 score involvements 24 hitouts and 6 clearances a game he needs 10 minutes bench time a game not a quarter. Again please tell me what Sweet offers that is better then Tim to justify moving him?
 

Dog 36

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English is averaging 22 disposals almost a goal a game 6 marks 8 score involvements 24 hitouts and 6 clearances a game he needs 10 minutes bench time a game not a quarter. Again please tell me what Sweet offers that is better then Tim to justify moving him?

I’m not replacing English at all all I’m saying is I would try games with both Sweet and English and see what comes of it especially when season is shot.

I’m not replacing English he is number 1 ruck full stop.

English maybe a greater weapon resting more often and can go even harder. Especially if he’s playing 91% game time ( I take your word that 10 min bench time a game I’m surprised ) Imo we don’t lose as much in the ruck if a Sweet plays as compared to other options.

I guess we will never know because I can’t see it been tried.

I’m rapt when we win and Sweet not playing and rapt when he is playing but I question when we lose whether things could have been different had Sweet played amongst many things.

See Geelong and Adelaide this year

Also reflect on English first 10 games.

Let’s leave it at that we won’t agree and as I said we won’t know
 
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threenewpadlocks

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We already gave Sweet a game to see what he could do as a forward. He somehow conspired to not be one of the 16 players who bagged a goal in a record win for the club and did very little despite the team dominance.

He can still be a good backup first ruck - which we clearly need - but suggestions of "accommodating" him are pretty absurd
 

hutchy31

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Given the log jam of hb in the team as it is. I cant see the point.

What I can see is Rhylee West banging nails into the coffin of Wallises career on a weekly basis.

Given form and injury issues this season. I think we've finally arrived at a well balanced combination of smalls in the forward line. All of Weightman, West and JJ are agile aggressive and most of all know how to hit the scoreboard.

Yep. Whatever Bevo and the MC want to do about the talls, those three names should now be in fairly permanent ink in the forward line.

Hunter and Smith back (and possibly McLean) should then mean McComb, NcNeill and potentially Williams drop down. Wallis unlikely to play AFL again unless injury hits. Not sure there’s a place for Vandermeer or Hannan now. Scott looks to have cemented a place now although that’s not certain.

Bruce and English back and it’s close to best 22. Be interesting to see it.
 

Dog 36

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We already gave Sweet a game to see what he could do as a forward. He somehow conspired to not be one of the 16 players who bagged a goal in a record win for the club and did very little despite the team dominance.

He can still be a good backup first ruck - which we clearly need - but suggestions of "accommodating" him are pretty absurd
One game and you can determine he can’t play forward

John Georgiades should have retired after one game and would go down as best forward ever
 

Mofra

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I guess we will never know because I can’t see it been tried.
We did try it a few weeks ago - English starting ruck, Sweet played as the no 2 ruck and in the F50 and was terrible. English owns the no 1 ruck spot when he's fit, and if you get a no 2 ruck who kicks two goals and brings the ball to ground in the F50 a few times that's an outstanding result.
Schache certainly played his role and did it better than Cordy or Khamis has done in recent weeks.
 

Dog 36

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We did try it a few weeks ago - English starting ruck, Sweet played as the no 2 ruck and in the F50 and was terrible. English owns the no 1 ruck spot when he's fit, and if you get a no 2 ruck who kicks two goals and brings the ball to ground in the F50 a few times that's an outstanding result.
Schache certainly played his role and did it better than Cordy or Khamis has done in recent weeks.
How many games has Sweet played with English?

Just try it till season end the season is done anyway and you will know more by seasons end especially playing against the teams we are.
 

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Dog 36

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Sweet has played plenty of football at AFL and VFL level, certainly enough to judge his current abilities forward of the ball.
I disagree he has played plenty of football forward of the ball at AFL level

He’s played mostly as our 1st ruck out of necessity.
 

Custard Guts

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Fairly torrid month ahead ... show any of those opponents our jaw for a quarter like we did with the 14th placed mob last night and the consequences won't be nearly as recoverable.
 

jdz101

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"That's Mr Gilmore's jacket"
 

Doggy

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Fairly torrid month ahead ... show any of those opponents our jaw for a quarter like we did with the 14th placed mob last night and the consequences won't be nearly as recoverable.
That 14th placed mob beat Geelong and Brisbane and nearly beat Freo in Perth
 

kleptomjc

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Anyone see what happened to Mara in the last quarter, seems he was knocked down off the ball and sucking in the big ones and Sicily was in the area giving him sh!t??
Noticed this too - was surprised they showed the aftermath on the coverage, but never the incident. Usually they dissect every piece of misconduct. I have some suspicions about why they wouldn't have shown it, however, that is derived mostly from my years of being a doggies supporter making me prone to conspiracy theories.

In any case, came across this on the AFL website:

James Sicily, Hawthorn, has been charged with Striking Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Western Bulldogs, during the fourth quarter of the Round 15 match between the Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn played at Marvel Stadium on Friday, June 24 2022.

In summary, he can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Intentional Conduct, Low Impact, Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $3000 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.


Surprised me that this is a first offence for him - also, a little off topic - he got slapped with a misconduct charge on Naughts - another first offence - it always seems strange to me that they don't stack - but then again, they are separate charges I guess. Guessing by the write-up, it was a gut punch to stop Marra leading, however, have no insight or vision to back that up.
 

lachy

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We already gave Sweet a game to see what he could do as a forward. He somehow conspired to not be one of the 16 players who bagged a goal in a record win for the club and did very little despite the team dominance.

He can still be a good backup first ruck - which we clearly need - but suggestions of "accommodating" him are pretty absurd
My belief is too much time is spent on a 2nd ruck in discussions, in this case Sweet.

Our issue has not been a 2nd ruck it is having enough talls in the the forward line who can stretch the opposition, ensure Astro is not double team and provide a contest against good quality intercept defenders.

Sweet is none of those. He is however a competent back up ruckman and has moved ahead of Martin if English is out which is when he will play. When English is in he takes that much of the ruck role it is pointless having a back up for that role, but we should always have 3 talls in the forward line as it provides a better structure to link with the mids and off half back.

Why we are still persisting with this Sweet argument is beyond me. He can ruck, he cannot be a tall forward at the moment and may never be but that is where our selection sometimes misses the mark as evidenced in most games we have lost

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doggies ftw

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I
My belief is too much time is spent on a 2nd ruck in discussions, in this case Sweet.

Our issue has not been a 2nd ruck it is having enough talls in the the forward line who can stretch the opposition, ensure Astro is not double team and provide a contest against good quality intercept defenders.

Sweet is none of those. He is however a competent back up ruckman and has moved ahead of Martin if English is out which is when he will play. When English is in he takes that much of the ruck role it is pointless having a back up for that role, but we should always have 3 talls in the forward line as it provides a better structure to link with the mids and off half back.

Why we are still persisting with this Sweet argument is beyond me. He can ruck, he cannot be a tall forward at the moment and may never be but that is where our selection sometimes misses the mark as evidenced in most games we have lost

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I agree the forward structure is a much bigger issue - but that’s why a lot of people bring up Sweet as two rucks means English spends more time to help out there.

I think most here (me included) are fine now with the 3 tall forwards and Schache taking the back up duties - the issue was Cordy. Cordy was as much of a liability in the forward line as Sweet but also a liability in the centre - mindboggling how many games he played this year. And then the other games we’ve gone with just Naughty/Buku etc, the two ruck discussion is just as much a forward structure discussion - they’ve always gone hand in hand, for me anyway

With goal kicking options now available and in form like Jamarra, & Schache starting to put some good footy together - this set up is fine. I’d only look at the dual rucks being used for games against Melb, Saints etc where we need to support Timmy to get the best out of him, not have him worn down by two good rucks
 

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