Review Dogs scrape home against Oranges 62-57

[Hobdog]

Of course things change yearly at all clubs, but for the most part we’ve had a reasonably settled 22 for the better part of the last 4 years with no real major departures.

Isn’t it concerning that every year we’re still ‘tinkering’ & ‘trying to find our best setup’ late in the season. Honestly I don’t think the coaches have any idea at this stage what they want our team to look like, we’re constantly a work in progress it’s just not good enough, what other team changes their structure as much as we do? Is it 2 ruckmen or just the 1, do we want to be short or tall up front or down back, it’s just a constant revolving door of tactics & players and there is no cohesion to any part of our game right now.

Watching the players trying to organise their ground defence is just a shambles, players focusing on running past the man with the ball to get in position to the point that they have zero awareness of what the opposition is even doing - no one has any idea where they should be standing or what they should be doing & it looks genuinely tiring to the players now.

On one occasion we had every player on the ground in our defensive half, an impenetrable zone 0-30m in front of the ball (whadya mean players can kick over that distance?) and still a gaping hole for Hogan to lead into and mark uncontested inside 50.

If this hasn’t been worked out yet then it never will be. Time for a change.

You’ve captured the biggest frustration for me too. That sense that we haven’t worked out our best structure even late into the season. It’s always spoken about by the coach like we’ve had no choice but to try different blokes in different positions. Have injuries contributed to that? A little yes, but every team deals with injuries.


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[ScragCity]

You’ve captured the biggest frustration for me too. That sense that we haven’t worked out our best structure even late into the season. It’s always spoken about by the coach like we’ve had no choice but to try different blokes in different positions. Have injuries contributed to that? A little yes, but every team deals with injuries.


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We are constantly in a state of flux, you see? There is no such thing as a fixed best 22. How could there be? Form will always be fluctuating. The team isn't some fixed form that is the same this week as it was last week. It's a process. A constantly evolving and adapting structure, only somewhat familiar to previous versions. It's like a flame, you see? You watch a flame and you see what appears to be a "thing." Only, it isn't a thing at all, it's a stream of gas; a process. It's not the same now as it was two microseconds ago.

 

[Hobdog]

We are constantly in a state of flux, you see? There is no such thing as a fixed best 22. How could there be? Form will always be fluctuating. The team isn't some fixed form that is the same this week as it was last week. It's a process. A constantly evolving and adapting structure, only somewhat familiar to previous versions. It's like a flame, you see? You watch a flame and you see what appears to be a "thing." Only, it isn't a thing at all, it's a stream of gas; a process. It's not the same now as it was two microseconds ago.

Even watching a flame eventually loses its therapeutic effect and transcends into the mundane


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[King Harold]

We are constantly in a state of flux, you see? There is no such thing as a fixed best 22. How could there be? Form will always be fluctuating. The team isn't some fixed form that is the same this week as it was last week. It's a process. A constantly evolving and adapting structure, only somewhat familiar to previous versions. It's like a flame, you see? You watch a flame and you see what appears to be a "thing." Only, it isn't a thing at all, it's a stream of gas; a process. It's not the same now as it was two microseconds ago.

Yes I see it now Scrag , brilliant !
same as your posts , a stream of gas , never the same

 

[dogwatch]

Bev's insistence on the main issue being player skill error is a bit eye rolling. For a guy who has built his reputation as someone that will vehemently protect his players, it feels wrong for his pressers lately to be like this. Yeah we have some real ball butchers out there, but to throw the players under the bus again without even slightly acknowledging your s**t game plan?

...

Interesting observation. Perhaps he sees loyalty as a two-way street (which of course it should be). If the players aren't 100% behind him then perhaps he doesn't feel the same need to be 100% behind them? Or is that reading too much into it?

 

[josh the gent]

Well that was worth the 4 hour round trip!

Anyway, lots of good summaries already, so won't add too much.

Ed - great. Best on, by a mile.

Jamarra - why do so many team mates aim half a metre out of his reach overhead? He didn't run under the ball, often passes were too high. Hopefully that cohesion will come. Other than that, he is building, more efforts similar to Dees game are not far away.

Bevo/Stef - are they both cooked?

Umpires - at least 2 of them deserve to sit through their reviews by having their heads banged repeatedly into the screen.

If we make finals, we appear on current form likely to get spanked. But finals are different, so who knows. I'd rather be in them than not.

Go Dogs!

Great post.

Also thought Riley West was excellent, Bailey Dale pretty good too.

 

[ScragCity]

Interesting observation. Perhaps he sees loyalty as a two-way street (which of course it should be). If the players aren't 100% behind him then perhaps he doesn't feel the same need to be 100% behind them? Or is that reading too much into it?

If the players aren't 100% behind him then that's his failure as coach.

 

[Next Waiting]

If the players aren't 100% behind him then that's his failure as coach.

Or theirs as employees under contract engaged to prepare and to perform to the best of their ability in order to make and win finals.

 

[ScragCity]

Or theirs as employees under contract engaged to prepare and to perform to the best of their ability in order to make and win finals.

Meeting their contractual duties to perform and genuinely believing in the coach are different things. The latter can't be forced or manufactured.

 

[Freshwater]

If the players aren't 100% behind him then that's his failure as coach.

This is not the 1970’s where some North Melbourne players absolutely hated Ron Barassi and would play in spite of him. But they still don’t have to love their coach. But they must believe him and respect him. Once they don’t, it’s broken, ala Brendan McCartney. We can’t know where it is with our players but there has been no selection integrity and poor positional moves this year. I still can’t believe Louis Butler got 3 or 4 games earlier this year.

 

[Next Waiting]

Meeting their contractual duties to perform and genuinely believing in the coach are different things. The latter can't be forced or manufactured.

But believing in him and being behind him aren't entirely the same thing either. I'd argue they're contractually obliged to be behind him for the season whether they believe in him or not.

 

[dogwatch]

This is not the 1970’s where some North Melbourne players absolutely hated Ron Barassi and would play in spite of him. But they still don’t have to love their coach. But they must believe him and respect him. Once they don’t, it’s broken, ala Brendan McCartney. We can’t know where it is with our players but there has been no selection integrity and poor positional moves this year. I still can’t believe Louis Butler got 3 or 4 games earlier this year.

You can't make people believe. It's not like clocking on and clocking off.

It's also hard to pretend to be believe when deep inside you know you clearly don't. The coach has to earn it and retain that earnt trust and belief.

I don't know if this is what's actually going on. I was just trying to understand and interpret Bevo's change in tone, as noted by Unorth.

 

[jdz101]

Or theirs as employees under contract engaged to prepare and to perform to the best of their ability in order to make and win finals.

The fact that were having this discussion means there's a very obvious and serious problem somewhere this year.

 

[grassman75]

Maybe. But he is contracted for another two years so will be interesting what happens.

He held the game up a lot yesterday.
I reckon his papers are stamped unfortunately.

When his mind is on it we know what he can do, but he is a shadow of his former self.

 

[ScragCity]

If you want to see a team who are playing for their coach, watch Collingwood.

 

[Dazb86]

Wish they'd man the bloody mark and make them kick over them

 

[Next Waiting]

The players duty to each other is being left out of this equation/discussion.

I've worked on a number of projects that have succeeded because of the teams professionalism and dedication and commitment to each other and despite management....not because of it.

 

[Unorth]

Interesting observation. Perhaps he sees loyalty as a two-way street (which of course it should be). If the players aren't 100% behind him then perhaps he doesn't feel the same need to be 100% behind them? Or is that reading too much into it?

I feel that he's incredibly frustrated about the team not following the directions for ball use, but then again he's the guy with complete control of the list and who goes out there each week.

Playing a 'best side' that has/still does contain guys such as McComb, VDM, Hunter, as well as mainstay ball butchers like Baz and Dunks, then complaining about the team not using the ball well? It's blaming the scorpion for stinging the frog.

His expectations out of the teams he's selecting are misplaced. We know we can field a great team but it's obvious that this year they are not, or can not, provide what he asks tactically. It's made us very difficult to watch and clearly greatly frustrating Bev. But they're either capable of doing what he wants and are just not doing it, or this group of players that he's very deliberately assembled (ceding list control to him at the cost of Dalrymple along the way) are incapable of executing what he wants. Both options reflect quite poorly and probably suggest he's run his course.

Typical coach presser behaviour is to stand up for your players, as he usually has (Or at least for his maligned favs like McComb, Gardner), then the hard truths are delivered behind closed doors. But he can't even be bothered doing that any more. If I was a player and heard his response to 'what went wrong' being 'my players can't kick and can't make the right decision', while our coaching/list management has basically ensured we're the worst defensive team in the league...

 

[Freshwater]

You can't make people believe. It's not like clocking on and clocking off.

It's also hard to pretend to be believe when deep inside you know you clearly don't. The coach has to earn it and retain that earnt trust and belief.

I don't know if this is what's actually going on. I was just trying to understand and interpret Bevo's change in tone, as noted by Unorth.

I should have used the word trust maybe? They need to trust the coach knows best, even if they’re hating doing or hearing certain things. Once they lose that, it’s over.

 

[grassman75]

It’s only a push in the back it there is two actions - placing your hands and then extending out. You are actually allowed to have hands in the back to hold your ground like Naughton did

Worse part was the umpire 10 metres away called it a mark, it was over ruled by an ump 50 metres away

Then Gws got away with a worse double handed push in the back in the last 2 mins against JuH i think and another where Gardener was shoved straight into the pack

 

[grassman75]

I can tell you who is taking clear marks tonight, number 33 for Carlton, the bloke let go, to retain Cordy and Gardner, unbelievable

Is that the same 33 who went up with two other Carlton players when they had a 3 on 1 contest in the last couple of minutes and it hit him fair in the face, he spoiled his team mates and possibly cost them the game? That number 33?

 

[grassman75]

That's the only reason i wont us to make it, i find if we make it and even have a reasonable lose in week one, its important for those two and West also.

Spot on, even a losing final is better than not making it for player development

 

[dull_high_ahoy]

Which part of the game was the Cordy bump? Trying to find it on the replay..

 

[ossie_21]

Which part of the game was the Cordy bump? Trying to find it on the replay..

Last few minutes

 

[Next Waiting]

I feel that he's incredibly frustrated about the team not following the directions for ball use, but then again he's the guy with complete control of the list and who goes out there each week.

Playing a 'best side' that has/still does contain guys such as McComb, VDM, Hunter, as well as mainstay ball butchers like Baz and Dunks, then complaining about the team not using the ball well? It's blaming the scorpion for stinging the frog.

His expectations out of the teams he's selecting are misplaced. We know we can field a great team but it's obvious that this year they are not, or can not, provide what he asks tactically. It's made us very difficult to watch and clearly greatly frustrating Bev. But they're either capable of doing what he wants and are just not doing it, or this group of players that he's very deliberately assembled (ceding list control to him at the cost of Dalrymple along the way) are incapable of executing what he wants. Both options reflect quite poorly and probably suggest he's run his course.

Typical coach presser behaviour is to stand up for your players, as he usually has (Or at least for his maligned favs like McComb, Gardner), then the hard truths are delivered behind closed doors. But he can't even be bothered doing that any more. If I was a player and heard his response to 'what went wrong' being 'my players can't kick and can't make the right decision', while our coaching/list management has basically ensured we're the worst defensive team in the league...

I thought most his comments were about the back 3rd turnovers. Senior players Daniel (4 clangers) 1 punished by a goal, Dale (5 clangers) and emerging player Richards (3 clangers) 2 punished by a goal was the area to tighten up.

Of those 3, Daniel provided the least value imo. 1 score launch and 1 conceded. Richards looked threatening all day but he can tighten up for sure.

Not sure Daniel has a place if we make finals. Maybe sub when everyone is tiring.