Review Dogs scrape home against Oranges 62-57

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ringa5

CRAZY HORSE
Jun 1, 2009
1,007
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goldcoast
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Western Bulldogs
The handball preference is out of control. There were multiple possession chains where they did everything they could to avoid kicking the ball forward. It was a terrible approach.
I wonder is it coaching. Do they think it's still 2016.As proven the last 2 or 3 matches it doesn't work against the possession game opponents are using against us.Macrae ,Hunter and Daniel were just woeful in their handball at all costs attitude. As once upon a time.. Hafey Siaid to Sheedy your back yard plumbers no finesse. KICK the f****n ball give the forwards a chance..
 

threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 10, 2012
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Hunters last game?
Hunter wasn't that good but he clearly had a greater understanding of AFL positioning, pace and spacial instincts that prevented GWS moving the ball with all their possession. It meant we didn't have McNeil getting lost on the wing for large parts of the game creating holes on the wing like large parts of the season.
 

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Snarls Barkley

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2012
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Pretending that Sweet would have offered more just has no grounding in reality. They split responsibilities in the VFL recently, same time ruck recently in the same game in the same conditions playing almost identical periods of time forward and ruck, and Martin wad clearly, demonstratively better. Not "ah Martin was better" but one was near BOG and the other had a poor game. This has been pretty consistent over the course of this season and last.

People can't purport to want to reward form, or not to "play favourites" with selection and then defend the selection of Sweet for this game.

I get that bringing in Martin to play 60% TOG and do not much is a bit pointless, but that means if all our English ruck support options are so poor then we don't "need" to give English support like people are calling for which is my original point.

Maybe Sweet as the better pure tap ruck would make more sense for selection if English was not going to be the first ruck taking the vast majority of contests but he is and we have to accept that as our rigid structures in selection.

The question mark is on Stef's fitness, not ability relative to Sweet.

I didn’t think my post was particularly pro-Sweet haha.

Sweet is not going to put up good possession numbers in the VFL because he sucks at everything around the ground. Martin is still going to put up big VFL numbers because the opponents in VFL are generally kids or undersized, even though he is a shell of the player he was from 2014-19. 2014-19 Martin would be Bevo’s prototype ruckman I imagine.

We’ve seen what they have produced at AFL level this season though and it’s quite clear that Martin isn’t good enough anymore. Had been killed in all three games, the last one by Sam Hayes who is that discarded at Port that they’d rather play no rucks. Sweet as limited as he is has at least been competitive in ruck contests when he has come in and generally I think has done a competent role as the sole ruck. Is it pointless him playing if English is the number one ruck? I would think so. But if they are going to play two rucks, at least he is going to be competent in one area of the game rather than zero.

It did seem like Martin was in more ruck contests in the first half (I’m sure Oliver Gigacz has the stats). I’m sure the plan was to split the two rucks fairly evenly but as he was offering nothing, English went back to mainly rucking in the second half. If this was the initial plan, for Martin to play forward/second ruck, then maybe Bevo has lost it. He wasn’t suited for that role when he was in his peak.

There’s no question on Stef’s fitness. He is finished. Had a hell of a career but he just isn’t that player anymore. It’s rare that a 35yo is.
 
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hutchy31

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2014
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Havent read through all comments. I mentioned it last week and will again. When do we start talking about Bailey Dales kicking/decision making ? Absolutely atrocious

I’d rather talk about Smith, Vandermeer, Cordy, Gardner and other players on our team who are complete butchers of the ball before we criticise Dale tbh.

It’s like some of those guys have never kicked a footy before. Gardner and Cordy kicking is a special kind of torture.
 

threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 10, 2012
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I didn’t think my post was particularly pro-Sweet haha.

Sweet is not going to put up good possession numbers in the VFL because he sucks at everything around the ground. Martin is still going to put up big VFL numbers because the opponents in VFL are generally kids or undersized, even though he is a shell of the player he was from 2014-19. 2014-19 Martin would be Bevo’s prototype ruckman I imagine.

We’ve seen what they have produced at AFL level this season though and it’s quite clear that Martin isn’t good enough anymore. Had been killed in all three games, the last one by Sam Hayes who is that discarded at Port that they’d rather play no rucks. Sweet as limited as he is has at least been competitive in ruck contests when he has come in and generally I think has done a competent role as the sole ruck. Is it pointless him playing if English is the number one ruck? I would think so. But if they are going to play two rucks, at least he is going to be competent in one area of the game rather than zero.

It did seem like Martin was in more ruck contests in the first half (I’m sure Oliver Gigacz has the stats). I’m sure the plan was to split the two rucks fairly evenly but as he was offering, English went back to mainly rucking in the second half. If this was the initial plan, for Martin to play forward/second ruck, then maybe Bevo has lost it. He wasn’t suited for that role when he was in his peak.
I agree completely, I just am a bit sick of people complaining about each and every logical and possible ruck strategy when we're trying to choose between a bunch of bad options. English needs support? No, don't bring in the VFL player in form. Bruce goes in the ruck in recent games? No, he sucks there and he shouldn't play any more minutes than a chop out. We are going after Lobb to try and solve this weakness from a list management point if view? No, it's a bad signing and apparently illogical.

Personally, if we need to give English more rest (which he clearly benefited from with that monster 3rd quarter) I think we just need to be willing to cop Bruce/Schache rucking even more minutes than merely "chopping out". Then again, maybe Stef's VFL form was so good and his physical markers were so good that we had genuine and good faith belief that he would have had more output than what he put up today, and everyone in the club's position would have also picked Stef.
 

hutchy31

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2014
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That was by far the worst Dogs game I have attended in person, ever. And I attended games in 2012-2104 and 2018-2019...

Jesus, are we this bad for another 80 years?!

But yes, I get the sentiment. I couldn’t go today with family commitments but it’s the worst game I’ve watched on TV for maybe a decade.
 

4Seasons

Senior List
Apr 29, 2022
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He also looks very tired. As do a lot of our good players because they have to double their workload due to some of these other blokes.

Reakon Dunks is gone. No acknowledgement to supporters going up the race after the game like others.

On SM-A505YN using BigFooty.com mobile app
He was looking for a job then he found a job,
But heaven knows we are miserable now.
A lover entwined who passed me by, but heaven knows I’m miserable now.
In our lives, our club will still survive.
 

King Harold

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Apr 23, 2013
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Made the point last week , far too many mids in the 22.
Team Balance up s creek.
For a start replace Daniel ,McNeil and VDM next year with taller specialist defenders and forwards.

Richards now a bone fide star.

Martin , who decided he should go on again this season ?
Check yourself in for assessment.

The team does need a refresh with some fresh faces.
If Dunks goes , may not be the end of the world. Trade aggressively!

2 young boys coming along nicely.
 

Mahama

Team Captain
Dec 28, 2003
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Painful game of footy to watch. GWS were clearly intent on maintaining possession and keeping the game excruciatingly slow for as long as possible – stifle their own scoring opportunities, but limit ours at the same time. It kept the game close, and might've allowed them to sneak a win if they'd started taking some risks in the last couple of minutes. The fact they were still chipping the ball around their backline with 3 minutes to play and down by less than a goal was hilarious.

As bad as it was to watch, I'm not really sure what you can do when a team is determined to play like that. If you push players up to stop the chip kicks around the backline, you end up defending a much bigger area of ground and open up some holes in more dangerous positions.

As it was, our zone defence seemed to hold up better than it has in a long time. 165 marks against looks bad on paper, but for all GWS' time in possession their actual kicks inside 50 were almost all garbage and resulted in only 8 marks inside 50. I also suspect the vast majority of those 165 marks were taken in their defensive half. Very different to the Freo game where they were gaining ground on most of their short kicks and using them to get inside 50.

In saying all that, it really could've been a much larger margin. 3 or 4 marks not paid inside 50, 2.5 shots that hit the post – a few of those go our way and we build a big enough lead that GWS have to start taking more risks and we probably open the flood gates. Alas, instead we got 4 quarters of garbage...
 

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Prince Imperial

Club Legend
Apr 9, 2003
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He was looking for a job then he found a job,
But heaven knows we are miserable now.
A lover entwined who passed me by, but heaven knows I’m miserable now.
In our lives, our club will still survive.

I'm going to see the cover band, the Smyths, tonight so this is very apt. Bulldogs of the World, unite and takeover!
 

Philthy1

Club Legend
Sep 17, 2017
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We need to discuss Roarke Smith’s game. He was channeling his inner Jason Horne-Francis.

Apparently the pine was not warm when Bont came off for his spell on the bench…
 

threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 10, 2012
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Painful game of footy to watch. GWS were clearly intent on maintaining possession and keeping the game excruciatingly slow for as long as possible – stifle their own scoring opportunities, but limit ours at the same time. It kept the game close, and might've allowed them to sneak a win if they'd started taking some risks in the last couple of minutes. The fact they were still chipping the ball around their backline with 3 minutes to play and down by less than a goal was hilarious.

As bad as it was to watch, I'm not really sure what you can do when a team is determined to play like that. If you push players up to stop the chip kicks around the backline, you end up defending a much bigger area of ground and open up some holes in more dangerous positions.

As it was, our zone defence seemed to hold up better than it has in a long time. 165 marks against looks bad on paper, but for all GWS' time in possession their actual kicks inside 50 were almost all garbage and resulted in only 8 marks inside 50. I also suspect the vast majority of those 165 marks were taken in their defensive half. Very different to the Freo game where they were gaining ground on most of their short kicks and using them to get inside 50.

In saying all that, it really could've been a much larger margin. 3 or 4 marks not paid inside 50, 2.5 shots that hit the post – a few of those go our way and we build a big enough lead that GWS have to start taking more risks and we probably open the flood gates. Alas, instead we got 4 quarters of garbage...
All of that can be true, and I think not enough credit is given to the fact we defended well when GWS had more inside 50's late in the game, but the point is that particularly in the first half, our skill execution was no where near good enough, especially as we got out to a 20-12 inside 50 lead or something like that. At one stage when we were 4.1 we had 5 scoring shots from well over 20 inside 50's and it wasn't because GWS were defending particularly well, it simply was that our skill execution wasn't up to a top 8 standard.
 

NBates

Premium Platinum
Jun 4, 2007
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He was looking for a job then he found a job,
But heaven knows we are miserable now.
A lover entwined who passed me by, but heaven knows I’m miserable now.
In our lives, our club will still survive.

Will I see you at the Smyths tonight?
 

Chicago1

21 Years on BigFooty!
Apr 19, 2001
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This reminded me of going to VFL park, wearing two jackets and a woolly jumper, still being wet and cold and watching the last quarter of a scrappy game in fading light and then traipsing through the mud to the car only to sit in the car for 50 minutes waiting to get out of Wellington road.
But we usually lost those games which made it even worse!
 

Dogs Rule

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 27, 2005
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We kicked a lower score in this game, it was about eight degrees and it had peed down the night before but I enjoyed this 100 times more than today.

 

badkicking

Senior List
Aug 4, 2019
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151
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I’d rather talk about Smith, Vandermeer, Cordy, Gardner and other players on our team who are complete butchers of the ball before we criticise Dale tbh.

It’s like some of those guys have never kicked a footy before. Gardner and Cordy kicking is a special kind of torture.
Especially when either Cordy or Gardner 'wheel' on to the left foot
 

Freshwater

Premiership Player
Oct 30, 2014
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The first half was trash, but I actually enjoyed the game all up today. I may be easily pleased? I thought we copped some, no many, really poor umpireing decisions that always kept slowing any momentum we were getting. The crowd got going too and was loud for 18,000. If a couple of posters were goals as well we could’ve/should’ve won by more.
Ed Richards is a star now. And if I were betting on the B&F, I’d have my money on him.
 

4Seasons

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I'm going to see the cover band, the Smyths, tonight so this is very apt. Bulldogs of the World, unite and takeover!
Internet know it alls take it over, take it over.
“Consensus” lol.
“Consensus “ is the key to saying the same thing over and over and over again.
Laughing emojis is a key to intelligence, while taking dumps on your own supporters.
 

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