Society/Culture Domestic Violence - Could There be a Magic Pill?

[CheapCharlie]

There is currently a trial in progress showing some good results with domestic violence reoffenders. It involves using Sertraline, a common antidepressant.

Among the men who have stayed in the double-blind trial for at least a year — half of whom are on active medication and half a placebo — there has been a 44 per cent reduction in violent offending and a 33 per cent reduction in domestic violence offending.

'The moment I hit her, I dropped to the floor': The clinical trial testing a potential solution to domestic violence

A world-first clinical trial is aiming to find out whether a common antidepressant can help stop impulsive men with histories of violence — including domestic violence — from reoffending. It's raising hopes — and eyebrows.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Chief]

How does this reduction compare with other methods and strategies?

 

[Cmarsh]

This is problematic IMO. "Domestic abuse experts" who let their ideological viewpoints get in the way of science when they are challenged by science.

 

[Chief]

View attachment 1035777

This is problematic IMO. "Domestic abuse experts" who let their ideological viewpoints get in the way of science when they are challenged by science.

IMO we have to separate blame and consequences.

You might have an upbringing that leads you to believe you are acting normally or without the ability to do anything about your problem. You might actually be blameless. But if you act on this anger, you wear the consequences.

If you are presented with treatment options and punishments, but refuse treatment and refuse to acknowledge the problem, the blame AND consequences then rest with you.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

IMO we have to separate blame and consequences.

You might have an upbringing that leads you to believe you are acting normally or without the ability to do anything about your problem. You might actually be blameless. But if you act on this anger, you wear the consequences.

If you are presented with treatment options and punishments, but refuse treatment and refuse to acknowledge the problem, the blame AND consequences then rest with you.

my worry with this is ownership of the problem. having a pill for it makes it an illness to be treated. as such, when i beat my wife im not a disgusting pig, im a man with an illness who should be cared for.

 

[Chief]

my worry with this is ownership of the problem. having a pill for it makes it an illness to be treated. as such, when i beat my wife im not a disgusting pig, im a man with an illness who should be cared for.

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

[fake tyrone]

It's all well and good to have medication but what if perpetrators don't want to take their medication due to side effects, cost etc? Taking a pill plus engaging in therapy or education is possibly a better method and would perhaps address the issue at a deeper and more constructive level.

 

[CheapCharlie]

How does this reduction compare with other methods and strategies?

I'm not sure.
I don't remember seeing statistics quoted in these studies usually.
This study from the articles quotes
"there has been a 44 per cent reduction in violent offending and a 33 per cent reduction in domestic violence offending"

 

[Chief]

I'm not sure.
I don't remember seeing statistics quoted in these studies usually.
This study from the articles quotes
"there has been a 44 per cent reduction in violent offending and a 33 per cent reduction in domestic violence offending"

Would be good to see comparison. If, say, hitting them in the Jatz crackers with a blunt stick brought about a 60% reduction then this isn't that impressive.

 

[CheapCharlie]

Would be good to see comparison. If, say, hitting them in the Jatz crackers with a blunt stick brought about a 60% reduction then this isn't that impressive.

There are some studies here

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/ti580_domestic_violence_offenders_prior_offending.pdf

Those studies show reoffending at up to 60% after 5 years, but that seems to be with police intervention of some type. Is the reinvest study looking at police intervention, or self report - i dont know

If a tablet can get a 44% reduction in violent offending, that seems a pretty good result for anyone who might have been on the receiving end.

Medication should be in conjunction with broader education philosophies.

As a group , millennials have been more exposed to education and information about domestic violence than previous generations, and more open to addressing it.
I'd like to know violence rates amongst that age group

 

[Snake_Baker]

Why men?!

 

[Taylor]

my worry with this is ownership of the problem. having a pill for it makes it an illness to be treated. as such, when i beat my wife im not a disgusting pig, im a man with an illness who should be cared for.

What if it is a mental illness?

 

[Evolved1]

my worry with this is ownership of the problem. having a pill for it makes it an illness to be treated. as such, when i beat my wife im not a disgusting pig, im a man with an illness who should be cared for.

I'm surprised to see that rationale coming from you, Ned.

I can think of environmental and genetic factors that could lead to some men (and women) having tendencies towards committing domestic violence. If medical solutions help, why not use them?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm surprised to see that rationale coming from you, Ned.

I can think of environmental and genetic factors that could lead to some men (and women) having tendencies towards committing domestic violence. If medical solutions help, why not use them?

I'm happy for that to happen, I just don't want abusers getting a soft excuse for them belting people.

Look how often people already use drink, drug, childhood abuses, or mental illnesses to get off a sanction. I have zero issue granting grace for genuine cases (of which there are many), but a lot of people lie their arse off about this s**t too (unfortunately)

Just look at the afl

 

[Evolved1]

I'm happy for that to happen, I just don't want abusers getting a soft excuse for them belting people.

Look how often people already use drink, drug, childhood abuses, or mental illnesses to get off a sanction. I have zero issue granting grace for genuine cases (of which there are many), but a lot of people lie their arse off about this sh*t too (unfortunately)

Just look at the afl

I find the act of domestic violence abhorrent too.

Putting that aside, my completely uneducated view is that focusing on shaming the act doesn't prevent it from happening.

Do people use mental illness to get off sanctions? I look at mental health in the same way as physical health, in that we all suffer in different degrees from both. If a mental health professional makes the judgement that someone has a mental illness, I accept it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I find the act of domestic violence abhorrent too.

Putting that aside, my completely uneducated view is that focusing on shaming the act doesn't prevent it from happening.

Do people use mental illness to get off sanctions? I look at mental health in the same way as physical health, in that we all suffer in different degrees from both. If a mental health professional makes the judgement that someone has a mental illness, I accept it.

People use anything to get off a sanction. Just gotta find the right person to sign a piece of paper

 

[Taylor]

How are we anything but slaves to the chemicals in our brains and the wiring of our previous traumas?

This is prederminism stuff, but if a drug addict is compelled to use and is mentally ill and medication can assist and medication can assist domestic violence abusers who are compelled to behave in a way they too know is wrong...

...then maybe there is no such thing as character. Or choice. We are the vessels for already established responses to come into existence based on the stimulus they are triggered by and the previous traumas that shaped their creation to begin with.

Now I personally feel that the more intelligent you are the less you are directed by your irrational feelings, but that could just be my pathways attempting to rationalise their style of control over my lower brain determinations.

This is what I think Ned is worried about. If everything is a result of your programming then you're not responsible for anything.

That means you're not a better person for not doing things. You're just correctly wired, but it doesn't mean you're better either because that broken person is a victim of bad wiring.

And we are nothing.

 

[Snake_Baker]

How are we anything but slaves to the chemicals in our brains and the wiring of our previous traumas?

This is prederminism stuff, but if a drug addict is compelled to use and is mentally ill and medication can assist and medication can assist domestic violence abusers who are compelled to behave in a way they too know is wrong...

...then maybe there is no such thing as character. Or choice. We are the vessels for already established responses to come into existence based on the stimulus they are triggered by and the previous traumas that shaped their creation to begin with.

Now I personally feel that the more intelligent you are the less you are directed by your irrational feelings, but that could just be my pathways attempting to rationalise their style of control over my lower brain determinations.

This is what I think Ned is worried about. If everything is a result of your programming then you're not responsible for anything.

That means you're not a better person for not doing things. You're just correctly wired, but it doesn't mean you're better either because that broken person is a victim of bad wiring.

And we are nothing.

 

[fake tyrone]

How are we anything but slaves to the chemicals in our brains and the wiring of our previous traumas?

This is prederminism stuff, but if a drug addict is compelled to use and is mentally ill and medication can assist and medication can assist domestic violence abusers who are compelled to behave in a way they too know is wrong...

...then maybe there is no such thing as character. Or choice. We are the vessels for already established responses to come into existence based on the stimulus they are triggered by and the previous traumas that shaped their creation to begin with.

Now I personally feel that the more intelligent you are the less you are directed by your irrational feelings, but that could just be my pathways attempting to rationalise their style of control over my lower brain determinations.

This is what I think Ned is worried about. If everything is a result of your programming then you're not responsible for anything.

That means you're not a better person for not doing things. You're just correctly wired, but it doesn't mean you're better either because that broken person is a victim of bad wiring.

And we are nothing.

This is an interesting argument and the article posted in the OP certainly lends itself to a biological approach to what is a very complicated issue. I do not believe that domestic violence perpetrators are victims of impulsivity; not every impulsive male out there would be bashing their missus. Role modelling (witnessing their fathers or other men close to them perpetrating domestic violence) and ingrained prejudices towards women would also influence how these men treat their partners. I think this medication would make it easier for them to slow down and thus be more receptive to learning how to treat women with respect. Treating impulsivity at a biological level does not undo the role of learning and the prejudices we absorb about various groups growing up. The responsibility to reflect on their behaviour and learn is still very much on them as far as I'm concerned.

The title of this article has a bit of a clickbait vibe unfortunately.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

The only thing that can solve DV is the acknowledgement that it isn't gender based, and isn't a 1-way street in most situations.
Lethality of how it develops is gendered due to gender differences obviously, but it will never end until the finger stops getting pointed and b9th sides admit to being toxic

 

[tandino]

View attachment 1035777

This is problematic IMO. "Domestic abuse experts" who let their ideological viewpoints get in the way of science when they are challenged by science.

I liked this.

... it does seem concerning that we'd be investing in trials where there is not yet a strong evidence base,"

 

[Chief]

The only thing that can solve DV is the acknowledgement that it isn't gender based

Wow. Quick fix!

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Wow. Quick fix!

Not at all. It's going to be a long road, but until there is a gender neutral approach, nothing is going to change.

Even recently with the tragic death of 3 kids in Tullamarine.
When it was unknown what happened, it was insinuated the father did it, links to white ribbon etc.
When the truth came out it was the mother, it's beyond blue only, and a million excuses.
There is an inability to even process the fact women can be violent anymore

 

[cartwright]

Not at all. It's going to be a long road, but until there is a gender neutral approach, nothing is going to change.

Even recently with the tragic death of 3 kids in Tullamarine.
When it was unknown what happened, it was insinuated the father did it, links to white ribbon etc.
When the truth came out it was the mother, it's beyond blue only, and a million excuses.
There is an inability to even process the fact women can be violent anymore

that’s a reaction to 1 woman a week.

how is this statistic brought under control, in your opinion?