Don't judge a book by it's cover

[sandie]

OK people, Sandie is a lot pissed of tonight because someone is judging a book by it's cover. We all have problems with supporters of other clubs, saying this teams supporters are more feral, etc. And generalizing about breeds of dogs same thing. Not everyone is tarred with the same brush, you can get good & bad with everything, but saying all supporters from one team are more abusive, violent, whatever, is like people saying all dogs of a certain breed are the same. No they aren't, if they are brought up right there isn't a problem, only peoples prejudices.

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mantis

 

[QT]

Sandie, are you still on about this

But i agree. Pit Bulls arnt necessarily bad!

 

[sandie]

Yeah sorry QT I love my dog & I get pissed off when people generalise, which is what we do here on BF about supporters of certain clubs, god I am going back to Buddhist days.

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mantis

 

[Carey_is_King]

Originally posted by sandie:
OK people, Sandie is a lot pissed of tonight because someone is judging a book by it's cover. We all have problems with supporters of other clubs, saying this teams supporters are more feral, etc. And generalizing about breeds of dogs same thing. Not everyone is tarred with the same brush, you can get good & bad with everything, but saying all supporters from one team are more abusive, violent, whatever, is like people saying all dogs of a certain breed are the same. No they aren't, if they are brought up right there isn't a problem, only peoples prejudices.

Sandie,
What brought this on ??

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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[TigerTank]

Sandie,

The punchline of virtually every funny joke is a generalisation.

Generalisations aren't good, bad or otherwise. They are merely a form of expression.

Generalisations exist because while they aren't certainties, people can get their head around probabilities. If the probability is too small to be relevant then the generalisation fails as a form of expression.

Too many people want to destroy our ability to express ourselves ... to make us mindless clones incapable of "incorrect" thought.

In George Orwell's 1984 it was called "Newspeak". Now it is called "Political Correctness". George Orwell was a Socialist and even he saw the intrinsic evil of altering the language to remove "politically incorrect" speech.

If you disagree with someone, fine! Don't read their material. That's the only censorship anyone really needs.

If you think I, or anyone else is racist or prejudiced for attempting to add a little light-hearted humour to this board, that's fine too. I don't think I'm racist (by my definition) and, in the end, the only person I have to be accountable to is myself.

Or to put it another way, lighten up a little. In a free forum such as this, generalisations can't hurt anyone. It's not like its mass-media where the audience is a passive receiver, is it?

 

[Crow54]

Sandie, have to agree with you here. I bought "Inside Football" the other day (I'm desperate at this time of the year) and realised once again why I stopped buying it last year. Will I never learn.

I don't know why they even sell it here in South Aust. Jim Main is a vile, bigoted, horrible little man. Every time he picks up his pen he belittles South Australians. If that doesn't incite Victorians to keep up the anti-South Aust vendetta , I don't know what will.

 

[eastaugh36]

main is a 4 eyed piece of garbage, he doesnt realise it but his jokes go the other way around,he is just too dumb to work it out

 

[Asgardian]

Sandie,

If you do not belive me, have a look at the following
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/danger.htm#Killer%20dogs

California has no law banning any breed of dog. In some other states and countries, however, there have been "breed bans." to link to a web site that keeps track of breed bans and breed-specific laws in the United States. Laws in Britain enacted in 1989 and 1991 make it illegal to import, breed, or sell pit bull terriers. Further, they must be registered, kept muzzled and on a lead when in public places, and, in order to ensure the type dies out, they must also be neutered.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog1.pdf

The above is a 4 page document, of which I have a copy if anyone wishes to read it, which has a discussion regarding dog bite - related fatalities from 1979 through 1988 in USA. It shows of the 101 deaths where the dog breed was reported, 41.6% were caused by Pit Bull breeds

http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm


TABLE 1. Dog breeds and crossbreeds* involved in dog-bite-related fatalities, by 2-year period -- United States, 1979-1996 +
=========================================================================================================================================================================
Category 1979-1980 1981-1982 1983-1984 1985-1986 1987-1988 1989-1990 1991-1992 1993-1994 1995-1996 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Breed
"Pit bull" 2 5 10 9 12 8 6 5 3 60
Rottweiler 0 0 1 1 3 1 3 10 10 29
German shepherd 2 1 5 1 1 5 2 0 2 19
"Husky" 2 1 2 2 0 2 2 1 2 14
Alaskan malamute 2 0 3 1 0 2 3 1 0 12
Doberman Pinscher 0 1 0 2 2 2 1 0 0 8
Chow Chow 0 1 0 0 0 2 3 0 2 8
Great Dane 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 6
St. Bernard 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4
Akita 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 0 4

Crossbreed
Wolf hybrid 0 1 1 2 1 4 1 2 2 14
German shepherd 0 2 0 2 2 2 0 1 2 11
"Pit bull" 0 1 0 3 2 & 3 1 1 0 10 &
"Husky" 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 6
Alaskan malamute 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 3
Rottweiler 0 0 0 0 1 & 1 0 1 1 3 &
Chow Chow 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 3
No. incidents for which breed known 10 20 27 24 22 35 24 25 22 199
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Data shown only for breeds and crossbreeds involved in four or more fatalities. Each breed contributing to the crossbreed is counted only once.
+ For 1979-1994, data obtained from the Humane Society of the United States registry, NEXIS database accounts, and death certificates.
& One fatality also involved a single breed.
=========================================================================================================================================================================

Pit Bull are inherently dangerous, and have NO place within our society.

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Chris

 

[sandie]

Chris
Eat shit & die

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mantis

 

[Asgardian]

Sandie,

C'mon, you can do better than that, I provide you with the facts and figures and you go to pieces, your a big girl now, not a big girl's blouse aren't you?

Or have I mis-read the situation, are you giving up, admitting that I am right?

That is best Sandie, I hope we can continue to have good discussions in the chat.

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Chris

 

[sandie]

Chris
I am giving up because it is pointless arguing, you have your "facts" from printed media, I have facts from owning & breeding them. If you ever met my dog, you would change your mind and realise that it is not the breed that is to blame, but the irresponsible, stupid owners who train them to be vicious.
Cheers

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mantis

 

[Richmondfan#1]

I agree completely mantis.
I'm not necesserally (sp?) talking about dogs but footy supporters that follow a certain team. For example, if you support Richmond, you are considered violent and very loud.
We aren't all like that. Several times when i have been posting here at bigfooty i have come across situations like this.
One topic that made me feel angry was one started by Donkey Kong (G4E). He made a crackdown on all Tiger supporters and i expressed myself very clearly. I can't be bothered writing the url here cos i don't feel like finding it.

 

[Asgardian]

Sandie,

If a stupid dog owner wants to train a dog to attack or be vicious, why is it they select Pit Bulls and Rottweiler's most often?

You can answer, or would you prefer me to supply the details?

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Chris

 

[sandie]

Chris
Because they are big & strong & very devoted to people & willing to please their owners. This makes them very easy to train, this can be a good thing if they have sensible owners, or bad if they have morons for owners.

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mantis

 

[Asgardian]

Sandie,

Or is it because they are happy to rip a child to shreds?

Let me tell you a story, this is fact, not fiction.

Friends of mine were visting people they knew, their 5 year old child was with them, the other people owned a pit bull, during the visit, the child was inside the whole time, the dog was outside, when they were leaving, the child ran towards their car, the dog suddenly chased and attacked the child, and badly hurt the child before the owner was finally able to pull his dog away.

This dog was a family pet, grew up with children, and was not, I repeat, NOT trained to be aggressive, vicious, a guard dog, or any such activity. It was treated like a normal dog by a loving family, sounds like the way you treat your dog Sandie.

This story is not an isolated incident, it is common with the Pit Bull breed, would you be happy if a pup you sold was the dog that performed this attack, or would it not be your responsibility once the dog was out of your care?

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Chris

 

[Mags]

I have had German Shepherds all my life and i love my dog now as much as possible and it gives me the shits when someone says it is the bread that attacks ppl!

It isnt the dog u cant blame the dog its Dog Owner that should take responabilty for it!

My 2 Cents
Mags

 

[sandie]

Chris
I can relate many stories of dogs attacking children unprovoked, from all types of dogs. Strange how the only times they get media coverage is when it is certain breeds. If a poodle attacked a child you wouldn't even hear about it.
Go to this site if you want an honest look at Pit Bulls. www.pitbull.ourfamily.com
And no I wouldn't be happy if any of my dogs bit anyone, even the small Cairn Terriers I used to breed, that is a stupid question.

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mantis

 

[QT]

Chris, i think sandie is most pissed off coz you said her dog should be destroyed...how would you re-taliate if someone said that about your dog?????

 

[Frodo]

With dogs I'm afraid that you can to a certain extent judge a book by it's cover!
Dogs were specifically bred for certain tasks and those breeds are now what we call pedigrees. It's all down to genetics and the same thing will happen with humans as the more unpleasant genes are bred out of humanity.
We all love our dogs. I have a boxer, had a boxer and will have another. They are lunatics and have very specific natures. They are the second most dominant breed in the world. The most dominant being the Bull Terrior. An aggressive boxer will just make any other dog submit by pinning them but with another boxer or a bull terrier blood can be expected. Dogs bred to fight will always need careful attention, particularly around children. My first dog bit two people. The first was a guy who stroked his nose when it was sunburned. He nipped the blokes nose and it bled. The second time a guy raised his arm as if to hit me and the dog jumped and got his fore arm. Couple of teeth marks result. No-one taught him how to do that, it was a natural defence. Most dogs, though, if brought up without abuse or fear will be fine if looked after well.

ps If you take your dog out and you fear someone or another dog then your dog will sense your fear and may well act aggressively.

 

[Constable Plod]

Dogs are unpredictable..bit like humans, trouble is with pit bulls when they have a wobbly it usually results in major damage, thats not to say other breeds cant be classified in a similar vain or every pit bull is a danger to the community.
It just the danger factor is much higher with
a breed like the pit bull..owning a pug is like owning a water pistol..owning a pit bull
is like owning a 12 gauge shotgun...

 

[sandie]

When Pit Bull owners get upset, they are much more dangerous than their dogs.

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mantis

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Obviously no one gave a crap about what i had to say.

 

[sandie]

RF1
Boy you are really feeling neglected lately aren't you. I thought your post was excellent, it was exactly what I was getting at.
Cheers

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mantis

 

[Asgardian]

I've come to realise arguing with Sandie is like arguing with a brick wall, she ignores the facts and figures, she ignores the higher potential for harm with Pit Bulls compared to other breeds, she ignores the question of ultimate responsibility, basically she ignores all logic and devalues the arguement to one denominator, HER DOG. Well Sandie, your dog is a part of a select community, a community which has rules designed for the average circumstance, laws which are non-specific when dealing with individuals. In short, we make laws for the common good of all, and bluntly, you owning and breeding a pit bull is not for the common good of the community. You are selfish to the detriment of the whole community, and personally, I hope the next dog attack by a Pit Bull, and trust me, there will be lots, is made by one of your dogs and you madam, are held to be financilly, legally and morally responsible, and I hope your personal liability insurer denies your cover, then we can see what owning a pit bull will do, it will destroy someone financially. Then people will realise that owning a dangerous dog breed is just not worth it.

As for you telling me to eat shit and die, frankly you and your mongrel dog can go to hell.

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Chris

 

[Frodo]

Hey, come on Chris, don't let it get to you.

One day there will only be non aggressive dogs as the Genes are manipulated. But what about people ? Here is an abstract of a very interesting paper.

THE HEDONISTIC IMPERATIVE
A B S T R A C T
This manifesto outlines a strategy to eradicate suffering in all sentient life. The abolitionist project is ambitious, implausible, but technically feasible. It is defended here on ethical utilitarian grounds. Nanotechnology and genetic-engineering allow Homo sapiens to discard the legacy-wetware of our evolutionary past. Post-humans will rewrite the vertebrate genome, redesign the global ecosystem, and abolish suffering throughout the living world.
The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved only because they served the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. They can be replaced by a radically different sort of neural architecture. Life-long happiness of an intensity now physiologically unimaginable can become the genetically-preprogrammed norm of mental health. A sketch is offered of when, and why, this major evolutionary transition in the history of life is likely to occur. Possible objections, both practical and moral, are raised and then rebutted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It makes the mind boggle