DONT TRADE CARLTONS PICK

[Murray2503]

Sounds like a plan but you’re only going to get another Jones at 10 when we need a Dangerfield/Martin quality mid.

I feel Rowelll and Anderson are going to want to go back to Melbourne within 3 to 5 years. Let's not kid ourselves, if they are a Danger or Martin their manager will be hawking them to the highest Vic bidder with Sen and the Vic media building this up for 18 months prior to their contract finishing. Jones could also develop into a Danger or Martin as he is only a kid currently. He too could also leave but there is less risk with him. The more South Australians we get on our list the better. Wce showed us how to win a flag by prioritizing home grown talent. No point also having the best mid in the league with no one to kick it too. We need to fix multiple problems quickly to have a fast rebound. The time is now to stop ******* around and start playing the game if the club is serious in wanting to win a flag. If you build a successful culture with all the young lads coming through together they will be more likely to stick together to see it through until they achieve the ultimate succes. Gws has proven that point even though they have lost some along the way. They have kept the priorities though.

 

[Idontpullout]

Whenever I hear of trading down. I always think of Melbourne trading Kelly for Tyson or Salem.

Pretty sure that one was the trade. I think we all know who everyone would take.

 

[Peter Doherty]

You’d hope Hamish and his minions are delving deep into these best prospects backgrounds and if they are flakey or genuine people.
Sloane is a Vic metro and couldn’t be more dedicated (although last contract he still milked us).
We can’t be baulking at the best talents with our list.

Sloane is very different. Sloane was overlooked in his draft year then went at pick 44 in 2008. Player movement has changed immensely since then. By the time Sloane became an AFL elite player he was entrenched at the AFC, we had a chance.

 

[jackster83]

Pick 1 for one of Luko/Rankine and Brisbane's first rounder (currently held by GC, likely to be around the pick 12 mark)?

 

[Murray2503]

Pick 1 for one of Luko/Rankine and Brisbane's first rounder (currently held by GC, likely to be around the pick 12 mark)?

GC wont do Luko and pick 12 for pick 1. They would be stupid too as they just took Luko for pick 2. Likely we will need to firstly trade with another club first (north, swans, melbourne, wb) with pick 1 going to them for 2 first rounders in the top 10. North would be ideal as they are thinking of trading quality for picks. They would also love pick 1 to gain a generational mid through the draft instead of trying to entice a Martin or Kelly. Then after this we could use the top pick combined with a player they need for Luko. Likely it would be pick 5 and knight as an example for Luko. This would leave us with the other top 10 pick to use on the best mid possible in the draft. That would leave pick 19(blues 2nd) which we could possibly trade down with a Jenkins trade.

 

[Southerntakeover]

You're right, very few do draft down. The Patriots do though, according to this really interesting study.

Smart NFL teams trade down at the draft. Most NFL teams aren’t smart. (Sorry, but couldn't paste the link)

The Patriots are often s**t at drafting though.

They don't win because they draft well. They win because they have the greatest coach of all time, and they fluked into a HOF quarterback in the 6th. They do exceptionally well at free agency, and trading.

They're more Hawthorn than a build from the draft team.

Smart teams don't trade down, smart teams move either way depending upon where the value is.

 

[Southerntakeover]

We have multiple holes in our team. Trading down is the answer to fill 2 of those holes instead of filling 1. Trading down is all about risk minimization. We have a prime opportunity to extract maximum value from pick 1. I would trade pick 1 to get 2 top 10 picks if possible. I will use pick 5 and 10 as an example. With the top pick i would trade in luko. If we have too i would trade out a player with pick 5 to get it done. Knight would be good example of such player. There may be a 3rd in return to the crows for giving up pick 5 and knight for luko. With the other pick (10) i would go after the best mid available with pace. This would leave us with pick 19(carlton 2nd round). I would trade pick 19 and Jenkins to get the best deal possible. I would be looking for pick 10 to 12. Melbourne would be a perfect location for Jerka. I would then use pick 10 to 12 on trading in a key back or taking the best key back in the draft. This strategy would solve 3 problems. Mid, forward, back. The crows would clear an ageing Jenkins and his wage off our list and in return gain Luko for the next 10 to 12 years. We would also gain a top mid and gain a key back which we need with Talia ageing. The crows forward line would contain Luko, Fogarty, Himmelberg for the next decade. End of 2020 i would target grundy when out of contract.

Filling multiple holes with good players doesnt substitute for obtaining elite players.

And you can rule out obtaining Luko with a lower pick than he was obtained with last year, I'd think.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I feel Rowelll and Anderson are going to want to go back to Melbourne within 3 to 5 years. Let's not kid ourselves, if they are a Danger or Martin their manager will be hawking them to the highest Vic bidder with Sen and the Vic media building this up for 18 months prior to their contract finishing. Jones could also develop into a Danger or Martin as he is only a kid currently. He too could also leave but there is less risk with him. The more South Australians we get on our list the better. Wce showed us how to win a flag by prioritizing home grown talent. No point also having the best mid in the league with no one to kick it too. We need to fix multiple problems quickly to have a fast rebound. The time is now to stop ******* around and start playing the game if the club is serious in wanting to win a flag. If you build a successful culture with all the young lads coming through together they will be more likely to stick together to see it through until they achieve the ultimate succes. Gws has proven that point even though they have lost some along the way. They have kept the priorities though.

Not drafting players from the biggest and often best talent pool isnt 'playing the game', it's conceding it. We cannot win a premiership with just South Australian talent. The talent isnt plentiful enough, and it isnt good enough.

We need to fix our player retention problems as a club, not hide from them.

 

[Murray2503]

Filling multiple holes with good players doesnt substitute for obtaining elite players.

And you can rule out obtaining Luko with a lower pick than he was obtained with last year, I'd think.

Not if he tells them he's out at the end of next year. Hasn't signed a contract extension they put in front of him early this year apparently. Also you get your drafting right and elite players can come at pick 5 (Rozee) and pick 15(Jordan Clark). Rozee is really pick 1.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Not if he tells them he's out at the end of next year. Hasn't signed a contract extension they put in front of him early this year apparently.

Which could equally be because he thinks he will play his way into more money. Players make more than monochromatic decisions. But if he's out either way, why do we need to spend our best assets this year?

We just need to keep enough money in the bank to outbid Port. We have enough other draft capital that could be rolled into next year to do that already, and could obtain more by trading out some of our seniors.

Edit: and your drafting depends upon the talent pool. You could get elite talents in the top 5 last year, that was widely suggested pre-draft. The consensus if you cannot do that this year. Trading away from the top 2, where the possibly only two elite talents are, and backing your 'drafting' is a fools errand. Our drafting won't make talents better than they are.

 

[Murray2503]

Which could equally be because he thinks he will play his way into more money. Players make more than monochromatic decisions. But if he's out either way, why do we need to spend our best assets this year?

We just need to keep enough money in the bank to outbid Port. We have enough other draft capital that could be rolled into next year to do that already, and could obtain more by trading out some of our seniors.

Edit: and your drafting depends upon the talent pool. You could get elite talents in the top 5 last year, that was widely suggested pre-draft. The consensus if you cannot do that this year. Trading away from the top 2, where the possibly only two elite talents are, and backing your 'drafting' is a fools errand. Our drafting won't make talents better than they are.

Our record of outbidding port on a player or free agent is pretty embarrassing. We are still going to have to give up a top 10 pick end of next year for Luko if he decides to leave gc when out of contract. We won't have that anyway if we go after Grundy when out of contract.

 

[Southerntakeover]

You do not concoct strategies to leave your faults in place, and mask them by overspending.

You fix your faults.

If we struggle to out compete port for players, fix that.

 

[GROTTO]

Our record of outbidding port on a player or free agent is pretty embarrassing. We are still going to have to give up a top 10 pick end of next year for Luko if he decides to leave gc when out of contract. We wo't have that anyway if we go after Grundy when out of contract.

Grundy is RFA. No trade needs to be done and should not be done. This is next year.

 

[GROTTO]

Good teams like Hawks, Cats trade their 1sts for proven elite talent instead of taking risks in the draft.

 

[jackster83]

Good teams like Hawks, Cats trade their 1sts for proven elite talent instead of taking risks in the draft.

The difference being elite talents all seem to want to play for Geelong or Hawthorn. They rarely want to play for or live in Adelaide.

 

[Murray2503]

The difference being elite talents all seem to want to play for Geelong or Hawthorn. They rarely want to play for or live in Adelaide.

The difference is they are south australian. Luko and Grundy. If they come they will never leave.

 

[GROTTO]

The difference being elite talents all seem to want to play for Geelong or Hawthorn. They rarely want to play for or live in Adelaide.

Thats why it is blindingly obvious for us to get Luko and Rankine, at least we need to present the offer to the Suns.

Suns will and most likely say No. But if we dont even explore these trades we have failed as a football Club.

Np one denies that Luko and Rankine are elite. Now imagine a world where both these players return to SA to Port, because they seized an opportunity, 2 years later they win a flag.

It will take us a decade to recover from this debacle.

We have a list where some older players that are seriously going to fall of the cliff in a years time, some have already fallen.

 

[Peter Doherty]

The people saying to take the best available talent no matter where they are from, I just feel that's a bit dated and lacks nuance in this instance.

Back when Danger was drafted it was the way to go, we still got good service from him, I agreed with that.

The attitude towards player movement has changed so much very recently and will continue to head in the same direction.

It's not like we are even talking about trading 1/2 for an aging Carey, we're talking about bringing super young elite South Australian talent home.

 

[marty36]

Not if he tells them he's out at the end of next year. Hasn't signed a contract extension they put in front of him early this year apparently. Also you get your drafting right and elite players can come at pick 5 (Rozee) and pick 15(Jordan Clark). Rozee is really pick 1.

Has there ever been a year when number 1 was actually rated number 1, Fyfe, Buddy , Dusty , Danger , Ablett, Judd, Swan, Bonts, Pendlebury, Gray, Rance the list is for ever
But the lower pick you have the percentages or chance of getting a better player obviously increase

 

[Crow till I die]

Not drafting players from the biggest and often best talent pool isnt 'playing the game', it's conceding it. We cannot win a premiership with just South Australian talent. The talent isnt plentiful enough, and it isnt good enough.

We need to fix our player retention problems as a club, not hide from them.

yes and no. What if we added Rankine, Lukosius, Grundy and Taheny in the next 2- 3 years to our squad - I will guarantee you we will be a better team

 

[boffo]

The Patriots are often **** at drafting though.

They don't win because they draft well. They win because they have the greatest coach of all time, and they fluked into a HOF quarterback in the 6th. They do exceptionally well at free agency, and trading.

They're more Hawthorn than a build from the draft team.

Smart teams don't trade down, smart teams move either way depending upon where the value is.

If you are open to evidence, suggest you read the article. It was an extensive study over many years.

 

[GROTTO]

yes and no. What if we added Rankine, Lukosius, Grundy and Taheny in the next 2- 3 years to our squad - I will guarantee you we will be a better team

+1

Not using Pick 1 is only conceding if were trading in potatoes.

Player movement has changed the way teams approach the draft.

FFS imagine if we wake up in 3-4 years time and took our time realizing this.

 

[DJ75]

If you look carefully over the entire Crows list there is one thing missing - pure class.

We have built a team on not great draft picks, on trades and on rookie drafts. We have players that are good battlers and players that are good in certain roles. But we have very little class in the team. I'd say the only player with pure class on our list is Milera (you could also argue Betts but he's nearly finished).

There is NO WAY I'm trading the pick. If I can get a class midfielder out of it, who has a combination of skill and speed, I'm grabbing it and never looking back.

 

[Idontpullout]

Thats why it is blindingly obvious for us to get Luko and Rankine, at least we need to present the offer to the Suns.

Suns will and most likely say No. But if we dont even explore these trades we have failed as a football Club.

Np one denies that Luko and Rankine are elite. Now imagine a world where both these players return to SA to Port, because they seized an opportunity, 2 years later they win a flag.

It will take us a decade to recover from this debacle.

We have a list where some older players that are seriously going to fall of the cliff in a years time, some have already fallen.

Exactly. The 3 year plan should be those 2 players along with Grundy.
I don't doubt that the conversation will be had with the gold coast.

For me there's to much of an obsession with gun high end midfielders.
Over our history we've proved to be able to develop gun midfielders without the draft picks.

 

[Crow till I die]

If you look carefully over the entire Crows list there is one thing missing - pure class.

We have built a team on not great draft picks, on trades and on rookie drafts. We have players that are good battlers and players that are good in certain roles. But we have very little class in the team. I'd say the only player with pure class on our list is Milera (you could also argue Betts but he's nearly finished).

There is NO WAY I'm trading the pick. If I can get a class midfielder out of it, who has a combination of skill and speed, I'm grabbing it and never looking back.

I think you will find Brad Crouch is right up there in all Australian conversations right at this time. I also think when he gets into the team- Fogarty is going to be something special (go back and look at his U18 higlights)