Roast You didn't trade Sam Hayes, maybe not so muppetty after all

[Ford Fairlane]

I have no idea who Harrison is,
Krueger no
Haven’t seen Draper since under 18’s but it’s pretty questionable if we would bother.

Yeah it would be my hope after coaching a midfield with Darcy as ruck that carr is keen on a tap ruck in his midfield, though whether he gets much say in that next year who knows.

Josh also really supported Sweet in the ruck at North when he was coach and Sweet wasn't a great stats collector.

 

[Bevoman]

I think we won't purposely trade him, but if he cracks the shits and thinks he's as hard done by as this board says he is, he might leave.

The things that are holding Hayes back aren't his ruck craft. It's all the other things that a ruck is asked to do in the AFL. Those things don't need to be developed. You don't need to develop a want to put on pressure and tackle. You don't need to develop a want to spread the field and get into positions where your teammates can use you.

The good thing is that all that stuff can be easily remedied in the space of a preseason, and Hayes could be leading the ruck for Port going into the 2023 season. That's my point - he doesn't need developing. He doesn't need excuses. Once he decides to put in, he's good enough how he is right now.

If Grundy leave the pies they will be seeking a plethore of cheap ruckman.
Going, going gone (to the other Black & White mob).

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

I'm a big fan of Arlo Draper and would love to have him, but I'd prefer to keep Sam Hayes and actually play him.

 

[Addy23]

I think Hayes will be a good ruckman wherever he goes. He'll be an important cog in a team that relies on clearances because of his tap work.

If he's leaving, I'd demand a second rounder back and pick Harry Barnett. If not, keep Hayes another year

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

Hayes won't play in front of Cameron and Collingwood wont play two Ruckman given their game style so he'll be drafted as depth and will play in the VFL...he'd be better to wait 12 months and hope he gets another opportunity post Hinkley.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

He'll be an important cog in a team that relies on clearances because of his tap work.

Clearances are pretty important for Port. But we lost them to everyone but North and West Coast when Hayes was rucking. Its almost like his tap work in the AFL was actually spike it to space and hope our midfielders was the one that gets it.

Works great when they do get it, lets the opposition just waltz the ball away with no pressure when they don't.

 

[philthy05]

Clearances are pretty important for Port. But we lost them to everyone but North and West Coast when Hayes was rucking. Its almost like his tap work in the AFL was actually spike it to space and hope our midfielders was the one that gets it.

Works great when they do get it, lets the opposition just waltz the ball away with no pressure when they don't.

It’s almost as if this board has been lamenting midfield set ups and coaching for years and the lack of our midfielders ability to read taps after years of playing to a negating ruck…

Posters were literally commenting during these games that Hayes was putting it down our mids throats while they stood there dumbfounded while the opponents were actually moving to dangerous spots.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Hayes won't play in front of Cameron and Collingwood wont play two Ruckman given their game style so he'll be drafted as depth and will play in the VFL...he'd be better to wait 12 months and hope he gets another opportunity post Hinkley.

At least he knows if Cameron gets injured he will get a game

As opposed to at Port where every single ruck could be injured and we'd probably play Wines as sole ruck.

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

At least he knows if Cameron gets injured he will get a game

As opposed to at Port where every single ruck could be injured and we'd probably play Wines as sole ruck.

Fair point

 

[Janus]

Nathan Buckley made a good point on SEN about Tom Hickey

31

Tom Hickey

Age

33

Ht

202cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

19.1

5star

D

4.0

1star

K

1.5

1star

HB

2.5

2star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.0

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

8.6

5star

and what he believes the most important attribute for a ruckman is in the modern game. It's not hitouts or clearances, but getting around the ground and providing an aerial threat in both defence and, if your ruck is fit enough, in attack as well. He said that Hickey is one of those rare rucks that can provide defensive support and also get up the ground and take the pressure off a key forward in attack, but if you can't at least drop back in the hole and make opposition teams think twice about going through your area, you aren't doing your job as a ruck.

 

[VineValerian]

Clearances are pretty important for Port. But we lost them to everyone but North and West Coast when Hayes was rucking. Its almost like his tap work in the AFL was actually spike it to space and hope our midfielders was the one that gets it.

Works great when they do get it, lets the opposition just waltz the ball away with no pressure when they don't.

Is that on the coaches and the role they assigned to him?
Or couldn't he do what they actually asked him to do?

 

[Lefti93]

Don't actually trade him FFS.

 

[Lefti93]

Don't actually trade him FFS.

You muppets!

 

[240volt]

Outdated ruckman would have got a regular game in the 1960s.
Move on

 

[Portology]

Just a query on a few other SA players at Collingwood, are these worth considering?

Arlo Draper (pick #45)
Harvey Harrison (pick #52)
Nathan Kreuger (would be his third club, is a fringe player - if Hayes, Frampton and McStay are coming in, likely to be expendable)

My preference is to keep Hayes, hopefully Josh Carr will push his case, he understands the importance of good big ruckmen.

Haven't seen him play before but two and a bit pints in I thought he did well in the ruck when subbed on against the Swans last week after half time. Seemed to get a few kicked clearances out of the ruck contests as well. For a slightly undersized ruck or ruck forward type he looks a little lumbering though which is weird.

 

[theouthouse]

Nathan Buckley made a good point on SEN about Tom Hickey and what he believes the most important attribute for a ruckman is in the modern game. It's not hitouts or clearances, but getting around the ground and providing an aerial threat in both defence and, if your ruck is fit enough, in attack as well. He said that Hickey is one of those rare rucks that can provide defensive support and also get up the ground and take the pressure off a key forward in attack, but if you can't at least drop back in the hole and make opposition teams think twice about going through your area, you aren't doing your job as a ruck.

I wouldn't call that modern game ruckwork, getting back a kick or so behind the play and pushing forward on occasion should be a staple of any good ruck alongside the physical stuff around the contest.

 

[Mutha F]

Ken would rather play junior rioli in ruck than Sam. The kid deserves more of a chance, so I hope he finds a new home to be honest. Better still, Ken & Nath * off and he has an awesome career with us

 

[Duck Farmer]

Ken would rather play junior rioli in ruck than Sam.

Not sure. He's a big fan of throwing SPP into the ruck.

 

[JimmyBC]

I wouldn't call that modern game ruckwork, getting back a kick or so behind the play and pushing forward on occasion should be a staple of any good ruck alongside the physical stuff around the contest.

Yep it's as old as the hills. I really don't think it's any more than something that will improve with AFL match fitness, He's not gonna get that loping around with fat opponents like Redden & Harvey in the SANFL.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I wouldn't call that modern game ruckwork, getting back a kick or so behind the play and pushing forward on occasion should be a staple of any good ruck alongside the physical stuff around the contest.

Yeah getting back into defence to provide an aerial threat just sounds like what Dean Brogan was doing in the Choco era.

And every ruck in the AFL era.

Most of them aren't a dominant aerial threat in their first 7 games though.

 

[philthy05]

Nathan Buckley made a good point on SEN about Tom Hickey and what he believes the most important attribute for a ruckman is in the modern game. It's not hitouts or clearances, but getting around the ground and providing an aerial threat in both defence and, if your ruck is fit enough, in attack as well. He said that Hickey is one of those rare rucks that can provide defensive support and also get up the ground and take the pressure off a key forward in attack, but if you can't at least drop back in the hole and make opposition teams think twice about going through your area, you aren't doing your job as a ruck.

Lol the ducking irony.

Hayes was the best we’ve had at this in the sanfl since I don’t know when.

Regularly got to the right spot to be there to contest down the line kicks on the wing. Dropped into the back line and stood under high balls.

We hadn’t seen that in the Maggie’s for years. Even peak lobbe when he was beating up sanfl rucks for 50 hitouts at his peak wasn’t doing that against sanfl plodders.

Meanwhile, lycett in the afl side was the worst ruck at providing an aerial presence around the ground, down the line and across halfback in the afl. The worst we’ve seen at port, yeah arguably worse than lobbe who was maligned for not taking marks around the ground.

Hayes 1 wood is his tap work. His 2nd, providing that tall aerial target around the ground, and if we backed him in we would have seen that more and more at afl level.

The knocks on Hayes are his follow up work on the ground after the tap, which is extremely poor (and I think it’s almost an overrated facet of ruck that only matters if a ruck is too s**t to get the tap clear in the first place or you don’t rate your inside mids as worth s**t) and getting involved in link up play (ironically the opposite of the ruck we traded out last year)

 

[longdonkey]

Its difficult to work out the way our midfield works. My thinking is the reason that we play plus one at the contest is so Wines, Boak and Rozee don't have to be accountable to their opponent at the contest because that is left to Drew and the small ruck gives us the true plus 1 to win the clearance.

Hinkley is so dysfunctional its anyone's guess what is going on but it would appear we defend by keeping possession of the ball and inching it to the forward line and locking it in our forward line is the way that they stop the opposition from scoring.

It means that unless something goes very wrong teams don't score heavily against us. Hayes doesn't fit into the because winning the tap isn't a priority winning it on the ground is. He's a slow mover so he's a defensive liability because we don't get a numerical advantage on the ground at clearances.

So until Hinkley goes he's in no man's land - Sack Hinkley

 

[robbo1981]

Nothing to be gained in trading him this yr let's wait and see what the new coach thinks.

 

[Bevoman]

Nothing to be gained in trading him this yr let's wait and see what the new coach thinks.

It will be his choice; it is only prudent that he would be looking around.

 

[afl2004]

Hayes to daicos will dominate and we'll get a bust with our 3rd round pick