Don't want, (or need) to start a new thread - still want to post it though

CFC2010

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As infuriating as it may seem we have to remember their are other victims of this person that have yet to have their day in court. Publicly naming this convicted individual only serves to benefit him at this point and weaken the successful odds of a fair trial, something his other victims are entitled too.
F K the scumbag.

I hope he rots in jail for the rest of his existence and then he can rot in hell.

I think the victims wouldn't give a stuff if he was named to be honest.
 

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Kirby

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It's not about the victims identity.

The suppression is more about the Melbourne trials for early next year not being tainted. The concern for the victims/accusers in the Melbourne trials is that if this is out in the press, then if there is a conviction for those crimes too then there can be possible appeals on the basis that he didn't get a fair trial.

Sorry for being vague (because i have no choice), but it's all about protecting the sanctity of the next trials because a potentially tainted jury doesn't help the victims of the Melb crimes if any favourable verdict just gets overturned later on appeal.

I hope that all makes sense.

p.s. there's no way in this modern age that ppl won't know so to me it's all futile.
 

Bad Horse

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Humans can never represent really.
Too fatally flawed.
Too prone to error.
Too many bad decisions.
Unfortunately in the church or any religious group or any human group that should do good works, some people go down bad paths and ruin the good previously done. Often the bad apples cause terrible trouble.
No excuse ofcourse but the few spoil so much.
Same at a football club, a few bad apples can ruin lives eg WCE the 90s team.
Wrong

It is not a case of a few bad apples. Surely there was enough evidence in the Royal Commission to ram that point home.

The very culture and substance of the Church has become corrupted. Its leadership across the board, and across multiple denominations, are an affront both to what their churches profess to mean, and to the basic tenets of humanity. Not facing that is an act of wilful blindness. Its not as simple as a few bad apples (and its more than a few). Its the whole culture, its in the DNA. Go watch Spotlight as an example.

There are people aplenty who wont acknowledge it, mostly because they are still addicted to standing next to Church leaders when wanting to project a false moral authority for their own agendas, but their day is coming too (and will also be interesting to see how attaching themselves to Military types is going to go). But as a society, we are overdue for a serious conversation about what role Churches do and should play in our society. Pretending things going bad is an aberration is like pretending civilian casualties are an unexpected outcome from war. Intellectually dishonest, and morally bankrupt.
 
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Wrong

It is not a case of a few bad apples. Surely there was enough evidence in the Royal Commission to ram that point home.

The very culture and substance of the Church has become corrupted. Its leadership across the board, and across multiple denominations, are an affront both to what their churches profess to mean, and to the basic tenets of humanity. Not facing that is an act of wilful blindness. Its not as simple as a few bad apples (and its more than a few). Its the whole culture, its in the DNA. Go watch Spotlight as an example.

There are people aplenty who wont acknowledge it, mostly because they are still addicted to standing next to Church leaders when wanting to project a false moral authority for their own agendas, but their day is coming too (and will also be interesting to see how attaching themselves to Military types is going to go). But as a society, we are overdue for a serious conversation about what role Churches do and should play in our society. Pretending things going bad is an aberration is like pretending civilian casualties are an unexpected outcome from war. Intellectually dishonest, and morally bankrupt.
I’m not a spokesman for causes, churches, groups. Nor am I inclined to do so because others belonging to such can do so.

Fair enough you’ve raised good points that are important to you.
 
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But as a society, we are overdue for a serious conversation about what role Churches do and should play in our society. Pretending things going bad is an aberration is like pretending civilian casualties are an unexpected outcome from war. Intellectually dishonest, and morally bankrupt.
What would you recommend the best course of action to be?
 

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It's not about the victims identity.

The suppression is more about the Melbourne trials for early next year not being tainted. The concern for the victims/accusers in the Melbourne trials is that if this is out in the press, then if there is a conviction for those crimes too then there can be possible appeals on the basis that he didn't get a fair trial.

Sorry for being vague (because i have no choice), but it's all about protecting the sanctity of the next trials because a potentially tainted jury doesn't help the victims of the Melb crimes if any favourable verdict just gets overturned later on appeal.

I hope that all makes sense.

p.s. there's no way in this modern age that ppl won't know so to me it's all futile.
Its all over Social Media in addition international News Agencies put all their content on line....I suspect it would be difficult to find anyone who does not know
 

Baltimore Jack

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Wrong

It is not a case of a few bad apples. Surely there was enough evidence in the Royal Commission to ram that point home.

The very culture and substance of the Church has become corrupted. Its leadership across the board, and across multiple denominations, are an affront both to what their churches profess to mean, and to the basic tenets of humanity. Not facing that is an act of wilful blindness. Its not as simple as a few bad apples (and its more than a few). Its the whole culture, its in the DNA. Go watch Spotlight as an example.

There are people aplenty who wont acknowledge it, mostly because they are still addicted to standing next to Church leaders when wanting to project a false moral authority for their own agendas, but their day is coming too (and will also be interesting to see how attaching themselves to Military types is going to go). But as a society, we are overdue for a serious conversation about what role Churches do and should play in our society. Pretending things going bad is an aberration is like pretending civilian casualties are an unexpected outcome from war. Intellectually dishonest, and morally bankrupt.
Exactly, it was (and to an extent still is) the norm within organised religion
As you point out the RC proved it to be so
 
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He's making a joke as the whole front page is blacked out and it prints something along the lines "that they are not allowed to print one of the biggest stories of interest.......blah blah blah" (obviously referring to the **** thing).
A side not to JDG, but... I wish people would stop posting who the suppression order is about. Herald Sun really irresponsible too, making it so dramatic. Leaking details just makes it possible he'll get off in future trails based on a technicality of a tainted jury through social-media contamination. It was prosecutors who wanted it, not defence...
 

CFC2010

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A side not to JDG, but... I wish people would stop posting who the suppression order is about. Herald Sun really irresponsible too, making it so dramatic. Leaking details just makes it possible he'll get off in future trails based on a technicality of a tainted jury through social-media contamination. It was prosecutors who wanted it, not defence...
quote-abortion-is-a-worse-moral-scandal-than-priests-sexu.jpg
 

Maggie5

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A side not to JDG, but... I wish people would stop posting who the suppression order is about. Herald Sun really irresponsible too, making it so dramatic. Leaking details just makes it possible he'll get off in future trails based on a technicality of a tainted jury through social-media contamination. It was prosecutors who wanted it, not defence...
It is all over the internet, can't control overseas leaks. Suppression order was only for Australia.
I would be very surprised if none on the jury weren't exposed to media about the case beforehand.

Anyway, I didn't think that JDG rode a motorbike, only know that Grundy does as I saw it up close and not anything special.
 

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What's your point? If you think this person is guilty and want the other charges to stick, every post discussing him can make that harder.


It is all over the internet, can't control overseas leaks. Suppression order was only for Australia.
I would be very surprised if none on the jury weren't exposed to media about the case beforehand.
I know, but every post on Australian-majority online spaces makes it that much harder for the prosecutors and that much easier for the defence lawyers.

Just because the situation is bad, that's not a reason to make it worse.
 

Maggie5

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What's your point? If you think this person is guilty and want the other charges to stick, every post discussing him can make that harder.




I know, but every post on Australian-majority online spaces makes it that much harder for the prosecutors and that much easier for the defence lawyers.

Just because the situation is bad, that's not a reason to make it worse.
No I am just saying that you would have to be living under a rock if you didn't know anything about the charges, who it is and who is bringing the charges.

Once on the jury, selection by both prosecution and defense would have to take the jurors word that they do not have a preconceived opinion.

I don't have a problem with suppression orders in cases where they need to protect witnesses, victims who want anonymity. Even in some cases the person charged but this case has had so much publicity, can't really see the point.

Anyway, I am derailing thread. Sorry.
 

CFC2010

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What's your point? If you think this person is guilty and want the other charges to stick, every post discussing him can make that harder.
It makes me sick thinking about what he did for two reasons.

1. I think he will get off because the Catholic Church is too powerful.
2. I hate molesters...….I have met him on a few occasions.
 
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It makes me sick thinking about what he did for two reasons.

1. I think he will get off because the Catholic Church is too powerful.
2. I hate molesters...….I have met him on a few occasions.
Yeah, I think we're on the same side here (although I think he won't get off). That's why I want it to stay as secret as possible until all the charges are done; the prosecutors asked for this, they think it will help them, so we should let them have it.
 

Black_White

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I’m not a spokesman for causes, churches, groups. Nor am I inclined to do so because others belonging to such can do so.

Fair enough you’ve raised good points that are important to you.
Should be important to all of us.
Systematic abuse of children over decades. Systematic covering up of known offenders, removing them from one place to simply open up abuse at another location.
This should matter to us all.
 
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Should be important to all of us.
Systematic abuse of children over decades. Systematic covering up of known offenders, removing them from one place to simply open up abuse at another location.
This should matter to us all.
Yes agree on all that.
Terribly many organisations covered up.
No excuse, but that’s what people did then. Terrible.

sadly, tragically abuse of children still happens in families, people close to the families. How we counter that I’m unsure. Very very sad.

Even some groups today, still abuse their own but people don’t talk about that.

Very tragic.
 

Bad Horse

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I’m not a spokesman for causes, churches, groups. Nor am I inclined to do so because others belonging to such can do so.

Fair enough you’ve raised good points that are important to you.
Important to me?

I am basically paraphrasing there conversations with clergy and laity aplenty, including several ministers/priests and more than a few nuns. A surprisingly large percentage of clergy not in senior positions hold exactly the same views, and are bitterly disappointed with the lack of actual reform from their own churches, let alone the stony silence from the politerati.

If you think this is some sort of LGBTI exclusive issue you have rocks in your head.

I have a feeling that if you and the internet were around in 1862 we would have been hearing "its such a shame people have to fight about things, cant we just get along? Cant people discuss things civilly? I know it means a bit to black people being, you know, owned by other people, but why should anyone go to war over it?"

Or perhaps in 1945

"I'm not a spokesman for the Germans or anything, but surely this fighting is not good. I know there were a few bad apples in the NSDAP, but surely the majority of Germans are nice decent people. And, like, Goethe and stuff."

Your almost obsessive dislike for conflict, discord, or disagreement is great except when we reach matters that really matter, where there is a distinct moral imperative, where it comes across as glib enabling. Going along to get along is what got us in this mess. Getting angry is how we get out of it.
 
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Important to me?

I am basically paraphrasing there conversations with clergy and laity aplenty, including several ministers/priests and more than a few nuns. A surprisingly large percentage of clergy not in senior positions hold exactly the same views, and are bitterly disappointed with the lack of actual reform from their own churches, let alone the stony silence from the politerati.

If you think this is some sort of LGBTI exclusive issue you have rocks in your head.

I have a feeling that if you and the internet were around in 1862 we would have been hearing "its such a shame people have to fight about things, cant we just get along? Cant people discuss things civilly? I know it means a bit to black people being, you know, owned by other people, but why should anyone go to war over it?"

Or perhaps in 1945

"I'm not a spokesman for the Germans or anything, but surely this fighting is not good. I know there were a few bad apples in the NSDAP, but surely the majority of Germans are nice decent people. And, like, Goethe and stuff."

Your almost obsessive dislike for conflict, discord, or disagreement is great except when we reach matters that really matter, where there is a distinct moral imperative, where it comes across as glib enabling. Going along to get along is what got us in this mess. Getting angry is how we get out of it.
In issues such as abuse these are very sensitive issues and deserving of great care.
Ofcourse on these boards none of us are really privy to the lives we lead.
There will be some, no doubt very close to the issue.

Also on a board, a footy board at that, it is impossible to know what people do in such circumstances when these issues are very real, what action, advocacy they take.

Some may not feel the need to get angry on a board. Is that justified? Not sure.

I would suggest in real life some organisations have made strides to not allow horrible crimes to happen, which is the start to reach zero allowance.
A never ending vigilance to keep all children safe.

How families protect their own, from close “family” members (tragically the most likely abusers) is an ongoing battle.
I guess honest discussion with children is a start, so they know that can go to you.

For what it’s worth not certain 1945 is the same. It’s a crime to hurt children in our country. It’s known as never acceptable. In Germany of the 1930s and 1940s a lot of things were not illegal.
Killing people based on sexuality, race, religion, being handicapped etc was state organised in effect.
Though I do get your point.
 

Dynamics

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Get ready for a rant!

It infuriates me that it's the institution itself that is broken, corrupted and morally bankrupt to its very core. Irredeemably so. And yet because it makes baseless claims to moral authority (claims that if I made tomorrow with the same amount of evidence would get me committed), otherwise good people will find excuses for it. Make it about individuals. Deflect. Minimise.

And I say that as someone who grew up pretty deeply enmeshed in the Catholic Church.

You only have to listen to their words, to read the reports that CONTINUE to surface about very recent and ongoing abuses and subsequent cover ups to know that it's an irretrievably monstrous machine.

Example: The Pennsylvania Grand Jury report found evidence of abuses of over 1,000 children by 300 priests.

In ONE state.

Let that sink in.

Think about those kids.

It's ******.
 

Black_White

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2005 semi final on FoxFooty now.
A quarter to go and Cats up by 17.
Time for Nick Davis to enter the contest.
I hate him for lying to us and leaving.
But I’m going to enjoy this last quarter.
 

Bad Horse

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Get ready for a rant!

It infuriates me that it's the institution itself that is broken, corrupted and morally bankrupt to its very core. Irredeemably so. And yet because it makes baseless claims to moral authority (claims that if I made tomorrow with the same amount of evidence would get me committed), otherwise good people will find excuses for it. Make it about individuals. Deflect. Minimise.

And I say that as someone who grew up pretty deeply enmeshed in the Catholic Church.

You only have to listen to their words, to read the reports that CONTINUE to surface about very recent and ongoing abuses and subsequent cover ups to know that it's an irretrievably monstrous machine.

Example: The Pennsylvania Grand Jury report found evidence of abuses of over 1,000 children by 300 priests.

In ONE state.

Let that sink in.

Think about those kids.

It's ******.
Nah its just a few bad apples
 

Black_White

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That was absolutely amazing.
4 last quarter goals. 3 of them pressure goals. That last one, he never had a semblance of control of the ball. Probably the best, most influential, quarter of footy by any player in a final.
Magnificent.
 
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