Doping Thread

sblack · Jul 15, 2015

bing181 said:
What's the point, your mind is made up.

There's plenty of info out there on riders, including Froome. I'm sure you can troll through it to find whatever you want to support what ever POV you want to subscribe to.

You realise I didn't write that. That's from Dr Ross Tucker. A guy who defended Vroomes climb up Ax-3 in 2013.

Papa Juggs · Jul 15, 2015

Oh wow.

A real eye opener.

Cancer causing hey?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/04/the-new-epo-gw1516-aicar-and-their-use-in-cycling/

ben_1301 · Jul 15, 2015

bing181 said:
Not sure what you mean. By definition, FTP is always for an hour, it's how it's defined.

Not always, if Albertos ftp was 420 for the hour he'd have 6.8w/kg and would have beaten Froome last night by a long, long way! And he'd also have the would hour record by a fair way to! Possibly for 20mins

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juggers · Jul 15, 2015

ben_1301 said:
Not always, if Albertos ftp was 420 for the hour he'd have 6.8w/kg and would have beaten Froome last night by a long, long way! And he'd also have the would hour record by a fair way to! Possibly for 20mins

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Who knows how accurate those zone numbers are anyway, plus contador is clearly off his peak by attempting the Giro/TDF double

The Falcon Strike · Jul 15, 2015

Just out of curiosity - if sky have developed some new wonder drug - if it isn't classified (Known) yet by WADA - is there a catch all provision still?

bing181 · Jul 16, 2015

ben_1301 said:
Not always ...

Yes, always. FTP is a "per hour" figure. You can't have an FTP for 30 minutes or whatever, the power you put out over a shorter (or longer) time period isn't your FTP power.

Agree though, would be surprised if Contador's FTP was 420. But short of him telling us, we'll never know.

phantom13 · Jul 16, 2015

The Falcon Strike said:
Just out of curiosity - if sky have developed some new wonder drug - if it isn't classified (Known) yet by WADA - is there a catch all provision still?

I believe if something isn't classified yet it's banned as if it's not classified it's considered not suitable for human consumption or whatever. I think I read that somewhere during the Essendon stuff.

thegrach · Jul 16, 2015

Juggalo Balla said:
Oh wow.

A real eye opener.

Cancer causing hey?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/04/the-new-epo-gw1516-aicar-and-their-use-in-cycling/

Eye opening stuff.

sblack · Jul 17, 2015

So the famous Plateau de Beille. Historic climb. Renowned for the winners being upper echelon GC riders.

'02 Armstrong 45.55.
'04 Armstrong and Basso 45.31.

Classics specialist Thomas, chasing down attacks as a domestique, 45.38. And today was a headwind.

#full******

bing181 · Jul 17, 2015

sblack said:
So the famous Plateau de Beille. Historic climb. Renowned for the winners being upper echelon GC riders.

'02 Armstrong 45.55.
'04 Armstrong and Basso 45.31.

Classics specialist Thomas, chasing down attacks as a domestique, 45.38. And today was a headwind.

#full******

OH FFS, get over it. This year Thomas won Volta Algarve, was second in the Tour de Suisse, and 5th in Paris-Nice - all stages races with some serious climbing. He has the runs on the board. In a middle/lower rung Pro Tour Team he'd be Team Leader.

sblack · Jul 17, 2015

Exactly. The guy is a track cyclist. 3 years ago he was Cavs lead out man

Sasquatch · Jul 17, 2015

bing181 said:
OH FFS, get over it. This year Thomas won Volta Algarve, was second in the Tour de Suisse, and 5th in Paris-Nice - all stages races with some serious climbing. He has the runs on the board. In a middle/lower rung Pro Tour Team he'd be Team Leader.

You were probably one of the people that thought Armstrong was clean all these years? Let me guess, you still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too?

bing181 · Jul 17, 2015

Sasquatch said:
You were probably one of the people that thought Armstrong was clean all these years? Let me guess, you still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too?

Personal attacks. Pathetic.

Smedts_2 · Jul 17, 2015

bing181 said:
Personal attacks. Pathetic.

Hmmmm... Yet the hallmark of your posts in this thread.

Papa Juggs · Jul 17, 2015

Thomas be all like "I'm just as juiced as Porte". Yeah we really needed it to be confirmed.

There's doping and there's blatant doping. It's definitely AICAR and WADA is reluctant to set the maximum level you can have because it has all these past results that it would have to apply it to. They're in quite the pickle because this would crush cycling once again.

juggers · Jul 17, 2015

For you guys who only follow cycling for the month of July

2011: At the tour to work for wiggins, who crashes out, finishes 31st anyway after waiting for wiggo and ruining any chance of a high gc finish.

2012: Back to the track to win gold at olympics, climbing and road form put back in the box.

2013: Finally road focused for good. Wins after attacking up corkscrew climb in tour down under. Crashed, alot, at the classics. Returns to finish 2nd at Bayern-Rundfahrt. Finishes 15th overall at the dauphine after working for froome. Finishes the tour despite fracturing his pelvis on the opening stage.

2014: Leading paris-nice before crashing out. Wins Bayern-Rundfahrt. Supports Froome, then porte at the tour. Ends up riding in breakaways to get stage wins, finishes 22nd overall anyway. Wins gold at commonwealth games RR.

2015: Wins volta ao algarve ahead of Porte. Finishes 5th overall in paris-nice, a race he should have won but crashed on a descent. Almost won tour of Suisse but lost by five seconds after the final TT. Rides high in le Tour everyone is surprised because "he's not a climber!" and no-one seems to remember just how good he was when fit and focused on the road.

Freakie · Jul 17, 2015

juggers said:
For you guys who only follow cycling for the month of July

2011: At the tour to work for wiggins, who crashes out, finishes 31st anyway after waiting for wiggo and ruining any chance of a high gc finish.

2012: Back to the track to win gold at olympics, climbing and road form put back in the box.

2013: Finally road focused for good. Wins after attacking up corkscrew climb in tour down under. Crashed, alot, at the classics. Returns to finish 2nd at Bayern-Rundfahrt. Finishes 15th overall at the dauphine after working for froome. Finishes the tour despite fracturing his pelvis on the opening stage.

2014: Leading paris-nice before crashing out. Wins Bayern-Rundfahrt. Supports Froome, then porte at the tour. Ends up riding in breakaways to get stage wins, finishes 22nd overall anyway. Wins gold at commonwealth games RR.

2015: Wins volta ao algarve ahead of Porte. Finishes 5th overall in paris-nice, a race he should have won but crashed on a descent. Almost won tour of Suisse but lost by five seconds after the final TT. Rides high in le Tour everyone is surprised because "he's not a climber!" and no-one seems to remember just how good he was when fit and focused on the road.

Please, comparing climbing the corkscrew to a Pyrenees climb? If your doing your job right as a super domestique you will finish relatively high in the GC, he seems to have made a massive step from super domestique to outright GC contender in a team that has a questionable history.

Sasquatch · Jul 17, 2015

No one is denying that Thomas is a good climber, and he has good results, but, he's juiced up big time. He is making the more talented climbers look weak whilst he looks like a super human. The shit he has done the last few stages is not human.

Belnakor · Jul 17, 2015

Sasquatch said:
No one is denying that Thomas is a good climber, and he has good results, but, he's juiced up big time. He is making the more talented climbers look weak whilst he looks like a super human. The shit he has done the last few stages is not human.

exactly what were saying about Porte in 2013

Vader · Jul 17, 2015

In any previous season, Thomas would be disappearing off the back of the peleton on the big hills, around about the time the group got down to 40-50 riders in size. He's far from the worst climber in the race, but he isn't (or wasn't) even remotely close to being one of the best. He's great on shorter climbs, like the Corkscrew and Willunga Hill. He's never been much chop on a Cat 1 or HC climb in one of the big tours...

This year he's the last support rider to set the pace, keeping up with the lead group when it's down to just 12-14 riders. The best of the best. Not only that, but he's also been hunting down the attacks from Valverde, Quintana, Nibali and Contador. OK, Nibali and Contador aren't at their best, but the Movistar pair are in top form and even they can't get rid of him.

In the words of Lance Armstrong, this is "not normal".

Belnakor said:
exactly what were saying about Porte in 2013

And he's almost certainly on the same juice that UK Postal were on during the 2012 & 2013 tours...

Vader · Jul 17, 2015

Juggalo Balla said:
Thomas be all like "I'm just as juiced as Porte". Yeah we really needed it to be confirmed.

There's doping and there's blatant doping. It's definitely AICAR and WADA is reluctant to set the maximum level you can have because it has all these past results that it would have to apply it to. They're in quite the pickle because this would crush cycling once again.

Having read the previously linked article, AICAR already has a test and it can be detected for up to a month after use. I doubt they'd be using a drug that's so easily detectable. They're definitely on something, something really good that the rest of the peleton doesn't know about or doesn't have access to. I'm just doubting that it's AICAR.

ben_1301 · Jul 17, 2015

I get this feeling as though we may have moved away from traditional doping methods, if you do some reading on the heritage family study it shows the effect of genetics on our level of trainability especially in endurance sports, if one could manipulate those genes you'd create athlete who'd get a higher level of adaptation. It sounds ridiculous but it will happen, whether or not it already has??

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RussellEbertHandball · Jul 17, 2015

ben_1301 said:
I get this feeling as though we may have moved away from traditional doping methods, if you do some reading on the heritage family study it shows the effect of genetics on our level of trainability especially in endurance sports, if one could manipulate those genes you'd create athlete who'd get a higher level of adaptation. It sounds ridiculous but it will happen, whether or not it already has??..

Gene doping is specifically banned and has been for many years. The 2004 Prohibited List

PROHIBITED METHODS

The 2009 Prohibited List

In 2012 they moved the GW1516 and AICAR type receptors into Prohibited Substances area ie the S.4 Hormone and Metabolic Modulators and are still in this category in 2015

The 2015 Prohibited List

phantom13 · Jul 17, 2015

Is the implication that because it's banned it can't be happening? Because if so I have some bad news for you...

RussellEbertHandball · Jul 17, 2015

phantom13 said:
Is the implication that because it's banned it can't be happening? Because if so I have some bad news for you...

Nope - not from me anyway.

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