Doping Thread

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grouse mate said:
Froome's data released, maybe more coming, apparently a scientific report still to come.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froomes-physiological-test-data-released/
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Those Threshold power numbers are pretty amazing. Anyone who rides with power knows that anything over 400 watts for even 10 mins is nuts. I am about 78 kgs, and I can prob just average 400 watts on a 10 minute climb. This bloke is doing it for 20-40 mins (which is a pretty loose time frame - coz 40 mins at 400 watts is *ing nuts), but even more impressive is he is in the 60s kg wise.

amazing numbers even more appreciate when you do ride with power.

Another funny thing to note is Sky use stages which are horribly unreliable, so who knows with this stuff...
 
Arsene Wenger said:
Those Threshold power numbers are pretty amazing. Anyone who rides with power knows that anything over 400 watts for even 10 mins is nuts. I am about 78 kgs, and I can prob just average 400 watts on a 10 minute climb. This bloke is doing it for 20-40 mins (which is a pretty loose time frame - coz 40 mins at 400 watts is ruddy nuts), but even more impressive is he is in the 60s kg wise.

amazing numbers even more appreciate when you do ride with power.

Another funny thing to note is Sky use stages which are horribly unreliable, so who knows with this stuff...
Click to expand...

Yep, 400 watts is bloody crazy for 40 mins at his weight. I'm 92kg and have an FTP of 328 watts! That said I can punch out 1950 watts in a sprint....
 
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=20&p=1864408

from an english(or british) poster on cyclingnews forum, Freddythefrog, such acuity

yaco55 RussellEbertHandball FFC_RoyBoys Chameleon75

guess reading this, can see about necessary handcuffs and managed outcomes, but the integrity dep't and clothier and vlad and gillon, its a bit of a joke...

[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1864408#p1864408]Freddythefrog[/url] said:
Sport is facing a crisis. The model it has had in place for many years, since the wall came down, is no longer fit for purpose. Tennis, T&F, NFL, Cycling and others all face near identical problems. The largest sport on the planet both in participation count and commercial activity, is in meltdown, not because the sport is "bad" or "corrupt" of itself but that the governance of FIFA is totally unsuited for its role. Corruption is designed in.

Sport is essentially about creating a fair contest where competitors accept the rules and compete within the scope of those rules. When we find out that behind the scenes the rules are distorted and the Governance has somehow connived with certain factions to grant them advantages and favours, then there really is no point to that sport. Professional wrestling was Saturday afternoon national live TV, watched by millions for years. They, the competitors, like Mr 50%+ Rob Hayles' dad, Kowalski, took the p1ss big time with fixed bouts and eventually even its most myopic and devoted fans saw through it and it is no more. It was not just the competitors, the refs and bout organisers and the reporters all promulgated and fed the scam and yet anyone of them could have exposed it and started a clean up.

Right now cycling is a freak show. We had 1998 and the Festina Tour. We had the Tour of redemption. We had our new winner and then found he was even more of a monster than what went before, accompanied by a bunch of other monsters. Did Poulidor dope ? Undoubtedly but at least he didn't end up in hospital on life support trying to inject his own centrifuged blood, after it had gone off. Did Fignion dope? He admits it but at least he didn't have to chase his bike spinning around the road when the "on" switch was given a smack and stayed energised. And Roger de Vlaeminck won all those Roubaix races without burning off the field by having the latest battery technology that gave him 20 minutes whilst his competitors only had 10 at best. Cycling is not alone. in having a runaway freak show. Right now we are having foisted on us regular adverts for the Six Nations. UK Sport AD identify that the largest number of positives by sport is in Rugby, but testing only takes place at the higher levels. Just what is the pressure on 16, 17 and 18 year olds. There is no testing for them and they all know that if they are not big enough they won't make the grade. Who creates the atmosphere where self-policing adolescents (an oxymoron if ever there was one) is such that those youngsters might make that incredibly difficult decision to say "NO" ? Failure is designed in. That failure of design is the responsibility of the governance of the sport.

The freak show is a runaway event. The Sky fans are the housewives with handbags who used to clout Mike McManus over the head when he deliberately jumped out of the ring. They might enjoy the ridiculous nature of the entertainment in the here and now but after they have bought the memorabilia and St David's latest denims and then when they see the clip of Movistar "hide the bike, hide the bike" and the scales have fallen, they will not be coming back. Cycling, like a lot of other sports is now in a new era. Around every corner is someone with a mobile phone to record the bike charging off down the road and the cyclist missing the saddle as he gets on. Sport is no longer a glorified hobby with its biggest stars like Stanley Matthews getting just £5 per week, slightly less than a skilled toolmaker in a factory. Now, it commands such publicity, prestige events suck in many millions of public money. To stage the Tour start in Yorkshire required many millions of UK public money and with that public money comes a renewed sense of the need for fairness. The stakes have been increased. FIFA's old guard certainly had not worked out that the mood music had changed. The new broom - Platini had certainly not worked out that the mood music had changed.

What worked in the past is useless. A cosy little club of people at the top table, who have undoubtedly already sold out long before they got there, get to chose who from their number should be their new leader. FIFA got Platini. The IAAF got Seb Coe. The UCI got Cookson.

"But Cookson presided over a masterplan that saw British Cycling rise from a basket case after the Doyle-Emerson fiasco to a sporting colossus, the dominant nation in a global sport. Surely he knows how to manage effectively? Why not indulge his youthful fandom for the greatest rider the sport has ever produced?"

Let me put a proposal to you. Say it were to be exposed some point into the future that the turning point in performance terms for the sport in the UK, and the device that Cookson was able to use to promote that change was a myth. Scientist Keen working with diligent artisan come pundit for nearly 20 years on the TV, Boardman, did not achieve Barcelona success over East German youth doping product Jens Lehman by hard work and a novel bike, but rather they hit the EPO and managed it better first. At the heart of that UK Sport project to back BC was a lie. If that were the case then surely it would have come out before now, therefore that proposal must be wrong. Or rather, either it is wrong or anyone in a position the responsibility of which demanded that they were curious had been deliberately incurious over a significant period of time. What would that organisation look like that could manifest such corporate incuriosity ? What would its leader look like ?

You know where I am going with this. Let's cut to the chase. What might have sorted out cycling in 1998 is totally ineffective right now. Recycling "reformed" dopers as team managers. e,g, - hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil Yates, retiring from Sky because of his heart condition, and then him being back in the team car is no longer acceptable. The environment has to be made so hostile to his type, that he doesn't want to come back. "It is not like the old days - I've had enough". You know that when Lance is taking the p1ss in twitter feeds about Cookson and Eddy that you are not sending out any signal other than "don't worry folks behind the mandatory PR pronouncements it is business as usual". And that is where Cookson fails at every single step.

Yes it will be lonely for him at the top. What will work now will require a vigour and determination of immense proportion. Motor doping did not start with Femke, as so many others have written, the bad attitude trickles down from the top. I am not saying Cookson wants anything other than a clean sport. In terms of the motor doping undoubtedly some officials knew and had turned a blind eye. But Cookson is the guy who plays the mood music. Whilst he is flirting with Eddy the wrong record is on the juke box. The crisis is so great the juke box needs unplugging, kicking over and a guy with a megaphone needs to be stating a few home truths. Anti-doping needs some "untouchables" people who don't make half baked and highly telegraphed attempts to catch dopers but actually who really want to go after them. Inventive and good minds who will outwit the dopers. Selfies with Eddy is just the latest symptom Cookson exhibits. Cookson is fatally compromised with his past as senior cycling individual on the board of the holding company of Team Sky as they hired doping riders, doping doctors and doping team staff. Cookson looks the other way at the exact moment he should be most curious. he is deliberately incurious because being incurious has, over the past two decades, been very good for Cookson.

Cycling will remain just a runaway freak show, with the dopers getting even further ahead of the small fortune spent on near useless testing regimes, until a very different message comes from its President and all the executive organs. Whether anyone likes it or not, there is no place for past dopers like Eddy to be lauded if the freak show is to be stopped, even if he rode a good number of the best ever races.
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blackcat said:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=20&p=1864408

from an english(or british) poster on cyclingnews forum, Freddythefrog, such acuity

yaco55 RussellEbertHandball FFC_RoyBoys Chameleon75

guess reading this, can see about necessary handcuffs and managed outcomes, but the integrity dep't and clothier and vlad and gillon, its a bit of a joke...
Click to expand...
Sport's isnt facing a crisis it is facing a reality check and if individual sports aren't prepared to face reality with tough honest no spin leadership, then they will die off - at the professional level anyway. Species are eliminated from the face of the earth every week. Business fail all the time and institutions are subject to the pressure of corruption and cheating all the time, so in many ways its no big deal, unless you have invested personal emotion in to that sport.
 
The truth is that drugs are needed for injury recovery.

A lot of the stuff would take a whole season to heal if not for the wonder drugs.

That and the fact players would only be able to play every 2nd game at a high level because their recovery would be so bad they would be sore for 2 weeks.

I'm beyond the point of caring really. Cycling cops the bad wrap but the truth is it is everywhere. Sam Mitchell makes a jibe about jabbing when it's pretty obvious the Hawks are the most doped team in the AFL.
 
blackcat said:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=20&p=1864408

from an english(or british) poster on cyclingnews forum, Freddythefrog, such acuity

yaco55 RussellEbertHandball FFC_RoyBoys Chameleon75

guess reading this, can see about necessary handcuffs and managed outcomes, but the integrity dep't and clothier and vlad and gillon, its a bit of a joke...
Click to expand...
The Pope to the rescue

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/01/25/Sports-in-Society/Pope-Francis.aspx
The leader of the Catholic Church is putting his faith in the power of sports to bring about social change.

Pope Francis will make sports a focus of his papacy’s third global initiative on education, following his efforts to highlight income disparity and climate change.

With the help of two North American sports sponsorship and marketing companies, the Vatican is launching a multifaith sports conference in October called “Sports at the Service of Humanity.” The three-day event will examine the role sports can play in society, from establishing relationships to helping promote health and wellness.

The Vatican will focus on three educational areas to help people grow: school, sports and jobs. The inclusion of sports represents the first time such a high-profile global institution has focused on the topic as a driver of social change. It also marks the first time that the Vatican has marshalled its wide reach on such a topic...............
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/01/25/Sports-in-Society/Pope-Francis.aspx
 
blackcat said:
i have never had an "agenda" brah
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Seeing through the smoke and mirrors is having an agenda apparently.

I tried to explain to my housemate what AICAR was and why Djokavic was clearly showing all the signs that he was on it while we were watching the AU Open. He wasn't interested.

People just want to see sport, they don't care if lighter athletes are now more powerful than ever with the lowest carb intakes of all time. "Gluten free diet bro"
 
Papa Juggs said:
The truth is that drugs are needed for injury recovery.

A lot of the stuff would take a whole season to heal if not for the wonder drugs.

That and the fact players would only be able to play every 2nd game at a high level because their recovery would be so bad they would be sore for 2 weeks.

I'm beyond the point of caring really. Cycling cops the bad wrap but the truth is it is everywhere. Sam Mitchell makes a jibe about jabbing when it's pretty obvious the Hawks are the most doped team in the AFL.
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No they are not needed
The body adapts
If you don't adapt or train enough or smart enough you are not the best -cheating is not the solution
It is a spiritual thing
I would love all bets are off drug up and see how fast a100m or marathon could be run without death the result
But we are then just Caligula
 
EPO_ORIG_250_0ec977c3-9a24-41d1-b96e-064e0f30bdb9_1024x1024.jpg
 

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Cycling News is reporting that the Spanish Court of Appeals has finally decided to release the Operation Puerto blood bags for testing, to allow formal identification of their owners.

The good news is that this will finally allow identification of all 23 riders and 10 athletes who had blood bags in Fuentes' fridge. Note that several of the riders have already been identified and in some cases served suspensions (Jan Ullrich, Jorg Jaksche, Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi and Ivan Basso).

The bad news is that the 10-year statute of limitations has now expired, so no further penalties can be applied.

At least the dirty riders can now be named and shamed, even if there is no further action taken against them. Wonder if Contador and Nadal are feeling nervous right about now?
 
The interesting thing will be if any tennis players or footballers are named. There was always a suspicion that the original investigation had the brakes put on because if they named/suspended everyone, Spanish sport would basically implode.

Spanish Football is just about the most powerful entity in the country. For that reason, I still wouldn't be surprised if we never see the complete results.
 
He was rumoured to brag to a prison inmate that if the bags were id'd half of 2010 football world cup side would all be banned.
 
Vader said:
Cycling News is reporting that the Spanish Court of Appeals has finally decided to release the Operation Puerto blood bags for testing, to allow formal identification of their owners.

The good news is that this will finally allow identification of all 23 riders and 10 athletes who had blood bags in Fuentes' fridge. Note that several of the riders have already been identified and in some cases served suspensions (Jan Ullrich, Jorg Jaksche, Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi and Ivan Basso).

The bad news is that the 10-year statute of limitations has now expired, so no further penalties can be applied.

At least the dirty riders can now be named and shamed, even if there is no further action taken against them. Wonder if Contador and Nadal are feeling nervous right about now?
Click to expand...
dont they have to seek the samples or crossmatched identities. If you cannot access a sample by Bettini, you cannot find out if Luigi, ClassicomanoLuigi is Bettini, Bartoli, Rebellin, or Cancellara, or someone else...

so, afaic, the position has not changed.

requires the UCI and the races who have taken samples of blood,
to
i) still have the samples on ice
ii) then agree to release them or iii) get the injunction off the courts to release them

Wont happen

#concerntroll #evo #virtuesignalling
 
blackcat said:
dont they have to seek the samples or crossmatched identities. If you cannot access a sample by Bettini, you cannot find out if Luigi, ClassicomanoLuigi is Bettini, Bartoli, Rebellin, or Cancellara, or someone else...

so, afaic, the position has not changed.

requires the UCI and the races who have taken samples of blood,
to
i) still have the samples on ice
ii) then agree to release them or iii) get the injunction off the courts to release them

Wont happen

#concerntroll #evo #virtuesignalling
Click to expand...
The article talks about WADA, the Spanish Cycling Federation (RFEC) and the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI) all getting samples. Presumably they wouldn't be short of exemplars from other sources for comparison (e.g. doping controls at races).
 
Hellgood said:
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/the-curious-case-of-oscar74-how-usada-nabbed-a-masters-doper/

It's sad that non-professionals are even considering doing stuff like this. All for the ego.
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Fascinating read. As has been mentioned there would be plenty of ammos doing similar stuff, especially considering the availability and more common acceptance of PED's in general now.

Not giving the fella a pass (if you wanna do the gear just dont compete) but as has been mentioned in the article you can almost understand without condoning.
 
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