Doping Thread

[blackcat]

dont disagree with this s1bbald, good post​

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but.​

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need to know what is going down with Armstrong. STILL. He is the influence in this race. Alot are under heat, and coming in under their peak doping program. Only Sky are rolling the dice, but politically, they have a wide berth. They have talked to the ASO this month. They are aiming to bring a team, to the boil for this week, and the OLy rr in 2 weeks.​

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You reckon you wont see Cavs mates, especially Sky riders, Eisel in particular, play tactics at the oly rr that are curiously aligned to Cav's interest in achieving a decimated field sprint (<30 riders).​

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If the peloton aint atomised, and they are brought together with a 20+ group in it, Cav or Sagan wins. Need to eviscerate the bunch at every opportunity, and dont think these are not the tactics Cancellara will wield. (record for double and triple negatives pleonasms)​

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I am aware that the entire peloton isn't clean, but I guess in years gone by, there has still been a semi-level playing field in the Tour, albeit a drugged-up playing field. This year's Tour, however, is turning into a farce. It's almost like Sky's drugs are on drugs. It's a shame that such a great event is won/lost in a laboratory.

 

[blue gunslinger]

so u guys think esp in an Olympic year it is getting worse instead of better

 

[Mick98]

so u guys think esp in an Olympic year it is getting worse instead of better

Yep.Being an Olympic year in Britain and considering the top 2 riders in the Tour are British.Watch the Brit's take home most of the gold medals in the cycling program

I smell a rat.

 

[blackcat]

so u guys think esp in an Olympic year it is getting worse instead of better

well, no. Cos tdf is where the money is to be made. And apart from Europcar, which were in the french authorities sights (sites), then, everyone has beening flying well below the radar. Sky the exception.

So, in cycling, road not track, they have been laying off heavy heavy normal use levels. And this has ALOT to do with Armstrong I reckon. I know they got di Gregorio lock up in the pent down Marseilles way but.

 

[blackcat]

I think it's just a way of justifying that even though they're on the juice, they still do a lot of work. I wouldn't deny that either, they'd probably do just as much work as anyone else in the peloton but they've got a bit of assistance.

all at the pointy end are on the assistance. Sky might have better programs tho this year, the intra tour blood bags, especially important. Cant win without them.

 

[blackcat]

top 2 riders in the Tour are British.

South African with a passport. Think of all those Perth accents who like a braai and to sledge the touring springbok cricket team

less kenyan, more saffa, less pom

 

[Mick98]

South African with a passport. Think of all those Perth accents who like a braai and to sledge the touring springbok cricket team

less kenyan, more saffa, less pom

So another Kevin Pietersen.It's a shame the poms have to import sportsman because their own are rubbish.

 

[blackcat]

So another Kevin Pietersen.It's a shame the poms have to import sportsman because their own are rubbish.

not really.

cycling has a reverse discrimination. If Wiggins was a south african or a new zealander, he would have been booted from the protour in 5 years with no results.

They do give many opportunties to Brits, to Aussies, to Yanks. Opportunities and Kenyan or South African, would never come by.

 

[Mick98]

not really.

cycling has a reverse discrimination. If Wiggins was a south african or a new zealander, he would have been booted from the protour in 5 years with no results.

They do give many opportunties to Brits, to Aussies, to Yanks. Opportunities and Kenyan or South African, would never come by.

Fair enough I suppose.
But they can still pick and choose from a greater pool of athletes than we have access to,and considering the population of Great Britain to Australia their history of world class athletes is pretty poor IMO.

 

[blue gunslinger]

empire was built on stealing good atheletes and cuisine

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

and yuou know the Nathan Brow leg break, and the Michael Barlow leg break and Gary Rohan.

You reeckon this could be stroids, specifically the catabolic stuff.

Commonly know as cortisone. corticoids. corticosteroids.

the only greenstick muscle break I can remember, was John Barnes for Geelong (I think). But was it Michael Foster the footscray player, my memory recalls him for some reason, maybe he broke some guys shin when he tripped him back in the early 90s, when they outsleawed tripping at the tribunal.

I reckon the AFL should be looking into this, the stength drugs, the hypertrophy androgens, fast acting testo, IGF-1, insulin, etc. I wonder why the legs with compound fractures when there were non in decades of football.

and I think there ARE indeed linkes between cortisone and osteoporosis, and a tentative google search

It was Peter Foster from Footscray, he broke his leg when Paul Dear from Hawthorn tripped him.

My leg was broken in almost exact same fashion as Gary Rohan in 1985 when I was 17. Certainly no gear involved in my training regime unless of course you count ciggies and alcohol.

 

[blackcat]

Fair enough I suppose.
But they can still pick and choose from a greater pool of athletes than we have access to,and considering the population of Great Britain to Australia their history of world class athletes is pretty poor IMO.

oh, this is about Sky taking athletes


well that is cycling. They have a new breed and a great catchment (pool)

wait for the Kennaugh bros, Rowe, Fenn, Christian, and the other sprinter who is about 25 on Lotto, he was at Konika Minolta about 5 years back, solid.

GB are gonna be the number one cycling nation within 5 years, they just need to start winning classics, and they will, just wait (yeah yeah know Cav MSR eh),

look for Peter Kennaugh and Geraint Thomas to podium in the Tour de France after Froomie.

It comes down to economics, and the German T Mobile, Deutsche Telekom turned off their nation with the open and public doping exposed. As long as this stays under wraps, and IO think it will, then GB has the economy to support 2 big teams, pplus the track, plus the development programs. Economics will determine the winners imo. They will be #1 UCI ranked in all disciplines on the road, classics, GTs, sprints, chronos, in terms of depth this is, aggregation of UCI points.

 

[blackcat]

It was Peter Foster from Footscray, he broke his leg when Paul Dear from Hawthorn tripped him.

My leg was broken in almost exact same fashion as Gary Rohan in 1985 when I was 17. Certainly no gear involved in my training regime unless of course you count ciggies and alcohol.

yeah. Foster from footscray. Peter Foster. I think I am right with John Barnes when he was with Geelong, greenstick upper arm, but did not pierce the skin.

But I had only seen this a few times. Djibbrel Cisse the French football (soccer) player has done it twice. I think he did it at Liverpool (or Arsenal) and then went back to the continent, back to the EPL now, but I think he did it about 3 years ago in his second EPL stint, Man City?

 

[blackcat]

• Microdosing with red blood cells stored previously (would explain the appearance of tiny amounts of Clenbuterol in Contador's blood - he was taking Clen pre-season when the blood was withdrawn)
• Un-testable variants of EPO
• Clenbuterol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
• AICAR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AICA_ribonucleotide
• TB-500: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymosin_beta-4 or http://www.peptidelabs.com/tb-500.html

Wim Vansevenant, everybody's favourite Lanterne Rouge, got busted importing this from Australia; later testing showed that he had been duped by the seller and it was actually FAKE TB-500!

• Telmisartan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telmisartan
• Stamulamab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamulumab
• IGF binding proteins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGF_binding_proteins

Some general info on current doping:
http://road.cc/content/news/55184-spanish-police-arrest-ten-they-break-next-generation-superdrug-doping-ring
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11395/Doping-AICAR-Telmisartan-and-the-need-for-vigilance.aspx

Wendy the whippet (with the 'double muscle' mutation)

My guess is that the next (if not current) generation of cheats will be using gene therapy to gain the advantage. Here's an interesting clinical trial going on at the moment to treat thallassimia. In this case, the gene therapy is used to get the body to create nice red blodd cells, instead of the busted ones produced by the inherited condition. You get the idea though...
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01639690?term=lentiviral+thalassemia&rank=1

 

[Little Big John]

Pretty informative set of talks on blood doping and the biological passport.

 

[blackcat]

Yeah, I doubt that.

The site melting down that is.

you can doubt both. RaceRadio has said Evans used to brag he was the only Australian with a Ferrari in him. Did Aldo Sassi know? This is prior to Rogers hooking up with Ferrari. And Rene Sch. the Cyclingheroes cycling journo also recounted this info to me, when he had a face to face at a Telekom preseason, when you could admit to working with "Schumi" or, "the good doctor".

 

[blackcat]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8893139/report-alex-rodriguez-others-miami-clinic-ped-lists

 

[Little Big John]

you can doubt both. RaceRadio has said Evans used to brag he was the only Australian with a Ferrari in him. Did Aldo Sassi know? This is prior to Rogers hooking up with Ferrari. And Rene Sch. the Cyclingheroes cycling journo also recounted this info to me, when he had a face to face at a Telekom preseason, when you could admit to working with "Schumi" or, "the good doctor".

Soz, didn't mean to give the impression that I think Cadel is clean. Most everyone who rides a GT is on their own blood.

As the good doctor explains in the vid I posted last page, it's not like the bio passport actually catches anyone.

 

[blackcat]

Soz, didn't mean to give the impression that I think Cadel is clean. Most everyone who rides a GT is on their own blood.

As the good doctor explains in the vid I posted last page, it's not like the bio passport actually catches anyone.

okey


gonna watchn it now, did skip it, cos saw the 1hr50min runtime

 

[Little Big John]

okey


gonna watchn it now, did skip it, cos saw the 1hr50min runtime

Yeh, maybe skip the last guy and subsequent q&a. Whenever someone says "I want to make sure we ask the RIGHT question", I get a little nervous. With good reason.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

.......

As the good doctor explains in the vid I posted last page, it's not like the bio passport actually catches anyone.

The UCI on their website make it clear that the BP doesn't catch anyone outright like Steroids come up in a urine test, but it is another tool to detect blood manipulation and other doping methods/substances. As I posted on page 34.

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU4ODY&LangId=1

What is a biological passport?
A biological passport is an individual, electronic record for each rider, in which the results of all doping tests over a period of time are collated. The passport for each rider contains:

• results of individual urine tests,
• results of individual blood tests,
• a haematological profile consisting of the combined results of haematological parameters analysed in a series of blood samples,
• a steroid profile consisting of the combined results of steroid levels in a series of urine samples.

.....

What is a haematological profile?

The haematological profile on the UCI’s anti-doping program has been in place since 2008.

A series of tests from each rider is organised into a profile which enables individual limits for each rider to be established. Each sample is compared with the rider’s own individual “normal” haematological levels. Any significant variations can then be assessed for possible blood manipulation.

The approach relies on the concept of “indirect” detection. Scientific experts will not actually “see” a banned substance in a sample. Instead, they will compare the parameters of the new sample to parameters measured in previous samples. In this way, fluctuations in the riders’ levels which may indicate manipulation can be identified. It is impossible for a rider to maintain a steady profile if he is manipulating his blood for performance enhancement and/or manipulating his blood to escape detection through a doping control.

How will blood samples collected for the haematological profile be analysed?

The Athlete Biological Passport Operating Guidelines were approved by the WADA Executive Board at their meeting in Stockholm on 1 December 2009. The UCI was involved in drafting and finalising the Guidelines since cycling was the first sport to introduce the biological passport.

Please click here to download the Guidelines.

Blood samples will be analysed and the results examined in three steps as follows:

1. Every sample will be analysed by a laboratory that is approved by WADA or the UCI and has the required equipment and staff of suitable competence. There are currently 19 laboratories accredited by WADA.
It should be noted that the measurements of values for the biological passport (haemoglobin, free plasma haemoglobin, reticulocytes, stimulation index, haematocrit) do not present any particular technical difficulties.

2. The statistical model, developed by the Lausanne Laboratory, will be applied to the results of analysis to determine an abnormal blood profile score.

3. The abnormal blood profile score is then submitted for interpretation by a panel of independent scientific experts; this panel then recommends the action to be taken by the UCI.

......

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU4ODY&LangId=1

 

[Little Big John]

RussellEbertHandball

Yeah, I get how it's supposed to work. I refer you to the vid I posted last page, particularly the second lecturer.

Forgive me if I take his opinion over the UCI's claims that "it is impossible for a rider to maintain a steady profile if he is manipulating his blood for performance enhancement and/or manipulating his blood to escape detection through a doping control".

 

[Bond.ShaneBond]

The UCI can shut down an Independent Commission that is investigating the UCI.

We are officially in Bizarro World.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The UCI can shut down an Independent Commission that is investigating the UCI.

We are officially in Bizarro World.

I posted a couple of stories from the UK Telegraph on this and one on the Fuentes trial a couple of posts above yours Bondy.

 

[Vader]

The UCI can shut down an Independent Commission that is investigating the UCI.

We are officially in Bizarro World.

They were the ones who set it up in the first place...

** Not defending the UCI, just explaining how it is possible.