No Oppo Supporters Double-Death-Riding Carlton 2019 Edition - Currently Pick 1 and 19

What month will Bolton be sacked?

  • April

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • May

    Votes: 1 3.6%
  • June

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • July

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • August

    Votes: 1 3.6%
  • September

    Votes: 1 3.6%
  • He won't get the sack this year

    Votes: 22 78.6%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
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kulak

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The players that you mention are all good in their roles however none of those players can take the inside mid / clearance role that Mitchell provides and that is so vital in winning contested possession in order to ignite your offensive ball movement

IMO the loss of Mitchell is huge because the one gap on Hawthorn's list is natural inside mids that will then bring the likes of Smith, Shiels and Wingard into the game

I had Hawthorn missing the 8 even with a fit Mitchell, the loss of Mitchell now bookmarks Hawthorn missing the 8

A recent article had Hawthorn's midfield ranked at #15 in the league, now losing Mitchell the Hawks arguably have the worse midfield in the comp, a tough season ahead for the Hawks
Top 4 minor round last year, added Wingard, and you had them missing the 8?
 
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Its nice when a poster makes a comment like this. It shows the writer's opinion is based on hopes, dreams, and sparkle-covered unicorns and is easily dismissed.

No doubt makes for arousing reading while you mob play soggy sao but it just displays a lack of factual insight. Shame, because I really think you truly believe what youve posted and that in itself is a little sad.

Carry on lads :thumbsu:
How is Shiel going in the preseason?
 

The Sloane Ranger

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Top 4 minor round last year, added Wingard, and you had them missing the 8?

absolutely, didn't we make the GF and miss the 8 the following season

Hawks were terrible in the finals last year and got a good leg up on the back of a soft draw, I also rate Burton and think he will be a loss as I think he would have played midfield in 2019 and now they are really lacking in A grade quality mids and numbers to run through the midfield.

Not to mention the lack of top end drafting will really start to hurt Hawthorn moving forward

In my view WCE, Pies, GWS, Crows, Essendon, Richmond, Geelong, Sydney and North Melb are all ahead of Hawthorn at this stage
 
absolutely, didn't we make the GF and miss the 8 the following season

Hawks were terrible in the finals last year and got a good leg up on the back of a soft draw, I also rate Burton and think he will be a loss as I think he would have played midfield in 2019 and now they are really lacking in A grade quality mids and numbers to run through the midfield.

Not to mention the lack of top end drafting will really start to hurt Hawthorn moving forward

In my view WCE, Pies, GWS, Crows, Essendon, Richmond, Geelong, Sydney and North Melb are all ahead of Hawthorn at this stage
It's the Clarkson factor though that makes writing off the Hawks dangerous.

Imo the Hawks will be around mid table. Mitchell is a big loss because he feeds so many other players & they don't have depth with inside midfielders.
 
Its nice when a poster makes a comment like this. It shows the writer's opinion is based on hopes, dreams, and sparkle-covered unicorns and is easily dismissed.

No doubt makes for arousing reading while you mob play soggy sao but it just displays a lack of factual insight. Shame, because I really think you truly believe what youve posted and that in itself is a little sad.

Carry on lads :thumbsu:

This response has a lot more of those hopes, dreams and sparkled covered unicorns then what mine initial comment had. After all, you have literally no position to stand on for this outside of the delusion that " it can't be that bad again". It can absolutely be that bad again.

What did you do to rectify it? Poach some fitness coach, yes, but considering how far you're behind in this regard (as all truly terrible teams are), you're most likely looking at a season of catch up*. The other point would be getting in McGovern, but we're talking about a historical 4th tall who has struggled to stay fit. Don't get me wrong, I rated him very highly at Adelaide (to the point I had him being fit in the top 3 things we needed to occur to win a premiership in 2018) as he was a piece that, through his tools (and I want to stress tools =/ production), made what was a very dubious forward line structure work. That said, whilst being big value to us, it's was beginning to lessen as that 4 tall structure is becoming more and more nonviable due to the loss of Cameron, and the rise of pressure in the forward 50 being king in this game (and you maximise that with smalls, not talls, despite McGovern being competent at this). If you're going on production, well, he's a mirage of an oasis currently, one who should produce but just doesn't for whatever reason.

Now to get to the big problem that you face, and will inevitably cripple you in 2019 - you have an absolute dud of a head coach, and quite likely a dud coaching group to go with it (or ignored, which is equally as big of a problem). We can tell this by Carlton going through a season so bad (let me remind you: 2-20) that you can only end up there through a systematic mismanagement of a playing list. If you were being honest with yourself as a club, this should have cost Bolton his job. This is a mammoth problem considering the way out of your situation is through implementing a viable structure/game plan (and a dud coach stops both from happening), so tell me why should I have even the remotest confidence in you even managing to gain 1% on your position in 2018? Development of your kids? That's naive as the biggest impact of development is environment, and structures. Cartlon can't claim to have either of them right now so expecting it to just happen is just incredibly foolish. Less injuries? Very tone-deaf for 2018 seeing the premier/2nd place side were both devastated with injuries (and yes, I consider Adelaide's season an utter failure even factoring in that), indicating how important those aforementioned structures are.

I will give you some credit however, I think trading out the inevitable 1st/2nd** pick in 2019 is actually a good move. Not because of Stocker, but because you've ripped away your safety blanket of "a 1st pick will save us". It'll force you to deal with a very big problem to your side which is Bolton, and yes, had you got rid of him at the end of 2018, and done something similar to what Melbourne did and getting the AFL to parachute an experienced/successful coach (which is what I expect to happen at the end of this season), I'd actually be expecting improvement from you. I'd probably be expecting improvement from you even if you didn't get the AFL to parachute someone in, but more in the first year spike before regressing variety.


*: You'd be praying this is the case because it is much worse for you if this isn't a problem to the 2018 cluster-* of a side. That would be a big indicator of Bolton being even worse then I've labelling him as, or a playing list who has had whatever fight it started with completely beaten out of them. If either of them are true, you'll be consigned to the bottom for a lot longer then what I'm giving you as a timetable which is I expect around 2021 will be the season you'll begin to truly push out of it.


** Pretty much every issue you have, Saints have as well, so that's the wildcard here.
 
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The Sloane Ranger

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It's the Clarkson factor though that makes writing off the Hawks dangerous.

Imo the Hawks will be around mid table. Mitchell is a big loss because he feeds so many other players & they don't have depth with inside midfielders.

there was pretty much zero Clarkson factor last year in the finals, IMO the Clarkson factor works best when he has got good cattle at his disposal

i suppose my argument is even Clarkson will have trouble to take Hawthorn to the finals in 2019 because their midfield just wont be able to compete with the top half teams in the comp
 
Whoa there Tolstoy. All youve really done here is expanded on points that were built on sand to begin with. We had an external review of the game plan and footy department as a whole. The game plan was criticised for being too complicated and lack of development staff to assist in its implementation. These have been addressed.

If you'd have put in a skerrick of the effort taken to write your novella you'd see your points are unfounded and views expressed uneducated and poorly researched.

Meanwhile, I bet youre one of those who have the Crows finishing top 2/4 because reasons.
Watching Carlton this year, it wasn't clear what your game plan was & players were obviously confused too. Yet to be convinced Bolton is a good coach, because the last thing you do with an inexperienced group is complicate the message as it never ends well. Will be interesting if he can rectify this or if he as already lost the playing group.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Watching Carlton this year, it wasn't clear what your game plan was & players were obviously confused too. Yet to be convinced Bolton is a good coach, because the last thing you do with an inexperienced group is complicate the message as it never ends well. Will be interesting if he can rectify this or if he as already lost the playing group.

There wasnt a lot of consistency in the named playing group from week to week which exacerbated transitioning from the attacking game plan shown early in the season to the more dour one of season's past.

As the injury list mounted I understand Bolton's instinct to stem the tide, however the practise of changing the game plan youve rehearsed all pre-season to an older version proved too big an ask. There were glimpses of seeing an impressive game plan, there was a game where we were getting slaughtered through the corridor in the first quarter. In the second we responded by pressing the opposition to the wings and despite their best effort, they werent able to regain control of the corridor. Theres been other times where Bolton has shown he can be a great tactical coach but that sticks out.

So we've brought in a devlopment coach for each group to assist them in learning his vision while also simplifying the game plan as a whole. I expect improvement as a result. The squad are backing Bolton in and have still bought in to his style of coaching. The board and footy department are also backing him in.

For better or worse, he is going nowhere in the time being.
 
There wasnt a lot of consistency in the named playing group from week to week which exacerbated transitioning from the attacking game plan shown early in the season to the more dour one of season's past.

As the injury list mounted I understand Bolton's instinct to stem the tide, however the practise of changing the game plan youve rehearsed all pre-season to an older version proved too big an ask. There were glimpses of seeing an impressive game plan, there was a game where we were getting slaughtered through the corridor in the first quarter. In the second we responded by pressing the opposition to the wings and despite their best effort, they werent able to regain control of the corridor. Theres been other times where Bolton has shown he can be a great tactical coach but that sticks out.

So we've brought in a devlopment coach for each group to assist them in learning his vision while also simplifying the game plan as a whole. I expect improvement as a result. The squad are backing Bolton in and have still bought in to his style of coaching. The board and footy department are also backing him in.
What you have described gives me no confidence Bolton has the makings of a good coach as he should never have confused the messaging like you have described to a young group. There is a fair chance he has already lost many of them. Surely whoever interviewed him should have been concerned with him offering so many game plans. The best coaches have a clear game plan with subtle variations.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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What you have described gives me no confidence Bolton has the makings of a good coach as he should never have confused the messaging like you have described to a young group. There is a fair chance he has already lost many of them. Surely whoever interviewed him should have been concerned with him offering so many game plans. The best coaches have a clear game plan with subtle variations.

In theory its sound. We return to a tighter formation which saw respectable results the previous season. The actuality of it is that we had just made 13 list changes and many of the older group who knew the game plan were out injured. Or suspended due to bullshit. We also had poor assistants in this regard which didnt help. Theyve been moved on btw.

There was no consistency in the named squad from week to week and our fitness levels were appalling. We have, as already stated, moved on our high performance coach and brought in someone who worked with Essendons 2000 flag team, Port Adelaides flag team, and Hawthorns threepeat.

We are making the correct off-field decisions. Not sure sacking Bolton is the right call just yet.
 
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