List Mgmt. Draft Discussion 2016

[JG22]

Absolute opposite. Matho is a figjam flog, Florent is a very mature young man, seems very well liked by his team mates.

Because we don't have him.
If we did he would be a confident young star

 

[AFLOnline]

Sounds reasonable to me but you'll need to clear it with the big man upstairs.

I lied, I actually don't do any of those things and in result I'm probably destined for hell.

But if we do land those 2 with our 2 picks, I promise I will do said things for the rest of my days on Earth.

 

[freebloke]

The way i see it we have a very good chance to get SPP at 23, and I think there are enough question marks about Florent and Venables to make me dubious that they would be better than having SPP AND pick 36.

Simpkin MAY be available at pick 15 , is he that top end talent we want?

36 is a god chance for someone like Zac Fisher, Drew, Parfitt.
I'd back the StKilda recruiters to play the numbers game pretty well.

Last year the Saints got White at pick 40. Mathieson was available at 39. This years draft is deeper and flatter.

Mathieson dropped coz of crap disposal and running a 12.5 beep test.

I agree with the deep and flat view.

After the top end standout players (roughly 8-10), there seems to be a long line of solid B grader types.

 

[AFLOnline]

Mathieson dropped coz of crap disposal and running a 12.5 beep test.

I agree with the deep and flat view.

After the top end standout players (roughly 8-10), there seems to be a long line of solid B grader types.

An average beep test and supposed crap disposal doesn't drop a top 5 lock to almost 40

He is easily a top 5 player in the draft, despite these (minor) flaws. More to it than that.

 

[sammm]

someof the VFL players have been listed

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/9fa85a802730354117582081c0ea15c5

The 15 VFL stars AFL clubs should consider at 2016 national and rookie drafts

 

[Barrels]

 

[saintkildaman]

I'm not against a flyer on Cedric Cox at pick 23.

View attachment 306830

181cm 78kg midfielder from Hall's Creek via Camperdown. Excellent off both feet and quick. Overager.

His older brother had some attitude issues on the recruit, here's hoping the younger brother has his head screwed on.

 

[saintkildaman]

An average beep test and supposed crap disposal doesn't drop a top 5 lock to almost 40

He is easily a top 5 player in the draft, despite these (minor) flaws. More to it than that.

Could've easily been his character, seems very confident of his abilities. Beast mode is shocking.

 

[Rors]

I'd be disappointed if we took SPP... Just looks like a copy of Nathan Wright.

I'd also be disappointed if we recruited Rotham. Why not just take the ready-to-go Cam O'Shea as a DFA & use the picks we have fo the classiest & speedy outside mids available at our picks?

 

[gringo2011]

I'd be disappointed if we took SPP... Just looks like a copy of Nathan Wright.

I'd also be disappointed if we recruited Rotham. Why not just take the ready-to-go Cam O'Shea as a DFA & use the picks we have fo the classiest & speedy outside mids available at our picks?

I reckon he looks more of a play maker than Nathan. I would like some pace though and COS is a no for me, if Port isn't stacked with defensive guns and he's not even getting on the park here is probably a reason.

 

[cuzo]

agreed, it seems strange for such a dramatic drop. one of my mate's brothers played with matho and parish at the geelong falcons and said matho was far and away the best. don't think it was talent that made him slip

An average beep test and supposed crap disposal doesn't drop a top 5 lock to almost 40

He is easily a top 5 player in the draft, despite these (minor) flaws. More to it than that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I reckon he looks more of a play maker than Nathan. I would like some pace though and COS is a no for me, if Port isn't stacked with defensive guns and he's not even getting on the park here is probably a reason.

Ahhh there was nothing like watching Brett Peake tearing down the wing, breaking the lines then kicking it to........????

 

[Roadto2018]

I'd be disappointed if we took SPP... Just looks like a copy of Nathan Wright.

I'd also be disappointed if we recruited Rotham. Why not just take the ready-to-go Cam O'Shea as a DFA & use the picks we have fo the classiest & speedy outside mids available at our picks?

Because Rotham has the potential to be a gun, O'shea doesn't.

 

[freebloke]

Let's hope SPP goes to west coast as rumored. He does have couple of tricks of getting out of congestion.

 

[JG22]

Let's hope SPP goes to west coast as rumored. He does have couple of tricks of getting out of congestion.

At their first rounder?

 

[Rors]

Because Rotham has the potential to be a gun, O'shea doesn't.

Every kid in every draft has the potential to be a gun. O'Shea would be solid depth at no cost, while Rotham would be undersized in height & weight for at least 3-4 years before becoming a regular in the seniors if he even makes it

 

[gringo2011]

Every kid in every draft has the potential to be a gun. O'Shea would be solid depth at no cost, while Rotham would be undersized in height & weight for at least 3-4 years before becoming a regular in the seniors if he even makes it

Yeah I see your point but O'Shea is probably not up to it if they won't play him at Port. I'm seeing a Tom Simpkin type who's just off the pace and size required. Rotham looks like he could be anything and still has a lot of potential to be a gun. He's going to cost a second round pick like the one we threw at Nathan Freeman on a speculative leap. We probably still need a mid sized defender at some point either way.

 

[Rors]

Yeah I see your point but O'Shea is probably not up to it if they won't play him at Port. I'm seeing a Tom Simpkin type who's just off the pace and size required. Rotham looks like he could be anything and still has a lot of potential to be a gun. He's going to cost a second round pick like the one we threw at Nathan Freeman on a speculative leap. We probably still need a mid sized defender at some point either way.

O'Shea is taller & heavier than Dempster, so not sure of the Tom Simpkin comparison

 

[freebloke]

At their first rounder?

On the phantoms there is a fair bit of speculation on who west coast will pick. SPP is being discussed there as they have worked on him a bit.

 

[Roadto2018]

Every kid in every draft has the potential to be a gun. O'Shea would be solid depth at no cost, while Rotham would be undersized in height & weight for at least 3-4 years before becoming a regular in the seniors if he even makes it

Gotham would complete our future backline if he's to play as a 3rd tall, and in doing so would be much better than O'Shea, if he's there at 23 he's probably more likely to make it as a 3rd tall than a classy mid would be to make it in our side who's also there at that pick. I'd be very very disappointed if we didn't pick Rotham if he's there at 23, unless of course a better slider is also there

 

[Hayes4PM]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-04/draft-prospect-not-going-to-give-up-despite-heart-condition

Jeepers, poor kid. I think Barrels is a fan of his. Hopefully it doesn't hold him back.

 

[Flandersss]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-04/draft-prospect-not-going-to-give-up-despite-heart-condition

Jeepers, poor kid. I think Barrels is a fan of his. Hopefully it doesn't hold him back.

I wonder if it's similar to Jayden Pitt

 

[aussierulesrules]

Talk is that West Coast are heavily into Bolton and SPP, possibly hoping to get Bolton at 12 and PP at 29.

I'd be disappointed if we took SPP... Just looks like a copy of Nathan Wright.

Having seen SPP play in some of the televised champs games both this year and last and seen his numbers and write-ups about him and so-on, I would certainly suggest that he's got a higher level of talent than Nathan, more versatility and much more of an attacking/offensive game.

Needs to be remembered that while SPP doesn't rack up huge numbers, Wrighty never has and from memory only averaged about 13 or 14 disposals per game off HB in the champs in his draft year. Nothing has changed.

Aside from his very first AFL game, when he had 22, he has never had more than 16 in his 29 games since and this year he only reached 10 disposals twice, from his 10 games. At VFL level things aren't much different, as from memory he rarely if ever has more than about 22 touches (the most he had in 6 games there this year) and he's never that I'm aware of shown any inside midfield capabilities.

SPP on the other hand has shown that he can play HBF, HFF and on the ball and like Wrighty, played off HB in the champs last year (his underage year) and according to an article earlier in the year, rated "above average" for disposals and metres gained: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/d6edbe29b3055f1dfcbff852fb0bdf9a.

So it sounds like he was getting more of the ball and probably gaining more meterage in the champs in his underage year than Nathan did in his draft year, playing the same role. That to me is pretty clear evidence that he is on a higher level, especially since he continued to play good footy this year, in more difficult positions. Everyone knew about SPP 18 months out from his draft, whereas I doubt many had heard of Nath until about 6 months out from his, because he's just not as good/talented.

At colts level this year SPP had one game of 25 disposals and 5 goals and had 22, kicked 4 goals and laid 7 tackles in the grand final (most dispsosals he had in a game was 28). I doubt very much that Wrighty ever had games anything like these in TAC Cup footy and having just looked up his TAC Cup stats from his draft year, he had 24 disposals and 1 goal, 13 disposals, 16 disposals, 15 disposals, 11 disposals and 2 goals, 22 disposals and 5 disposals, in his 6 games for Dandeong Stingrays in his draft year. He just struggles to find the footy, doesn't have a midfield game and doesn't hit the scoreboard anywhere near as heavily as SPP does or can.

Wrighty went at pick 24 of his draft, but it needs to be remembered that that was a compromised draft, that would have otherwise had JOM and Brad Crouch in it, Dayle Garlett was considered a top 5 talent, who didn't get picked up at all and Jack Viney went at 26, after being bid on at 7. So 24 was more like 28 and having a look at it, that was a bloody ordinary draft after the first 7 (or 8, if you include Viney), whereas this year's draft is meant to be a very good one up until at least 30-35. Knowing what we do about who's in this year's draft pool and that Nathan played HBF in his draft year, didn't get much of the ball and is a terrible kick, I doubt very much he'd go in the top 40 of this year's draft, whereas SPP could go anywhere from about 15-30.

PP is probably not as good defensively (very few would be), but I think he'd still be very capable defensively, given his size, aggression, competitiveness and speed and I fully expect he'll be much more of a threat offensively and much more versatile, with the ability to rotate through the guts and be a real impact type in there. He's also listed at an inch or so taller (188cm in some places) and may still have a bit of growth in him, so could end up a big, powerful, explosive wrecking ball.

To me he's much more like a cross between Wrighty, Mav and Dustin Martin than a Wrighty clone.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Talk is that West Coast are heavily into Bolton and SPP, possibly hoping to get Bolton at 12 and PP at 29.

Having seen SPP play in some of the televised champs games both this year and last and seen his numbers and write-ups about him and so-on, I would certainly suggest that he's got a higher level of talent than Nathan, more versatility and much more of an attacking/offensive game.

Needs to be remembered that while SPP doesn't rack up huge numbers, Wrighty never has and from memory only averaged about 13 or 14 disposals per game off HB in the champs in his draft year. Nothing has changed.

Aside from his very first AFL game, when he had 22, he has never had more than 16 in his 29 games since and this year he only reached 10 disposals twice, from his 10 games. At VFL level things aren't much different, as from memory he rarely if ever has more than about 22 touches (the most he had in 6 games there this year) and he's never that I'm aware of shown any inside midfield capabilities.

SPP on the other hand has shown that he can play HBF, HFF and on the ball and like Wrighty, played off HB in the champs last year (his underage year) and according to an article earlier in the year, rated "above average" for disposals and metres gained: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/d6edbe29b3055f1dfcbff852fb0bdf9a.

So it sounds like he was getting more of the ball and probably gaining more meterage in the champs in his underage year than Nathan did in his draft year, playing the same role. That to me is pretty clear evidence that he is on a higher level, especially since he continued to play good footy this year, in more difficult positions. Everyone knew about SPP 18 months out from his draft, whereas I doubt many had heard of Nath until about 6 months out from his, because he's just not as good/talented.

At colts level this year SPP had one game of 25 disposals and 5 goals and had 22, kicked 4 goals and laid 7 tackles in the grand final (most dispsosals he had in a game was 28). I doubt very much that Wrighty ever had games anything like these in TAC Cup footy and having just looked up his TAC Cup stats from his draft year, he had 24 disposals and 1 goal, 13 disposals, 16 disposals, 15 disposals, 11 disposals and 2 goals, 22 disposals and 5 disposals, in his 6 games for Dandeong Stingrays in his draft year. He just struggles to find the footy, doesn't have a midfield game and doesn't hit the scoreboard anywhere near as heavily as SPP does or can.

Wrighty went at pick 24 of his draft, but it needs to be remembered that that was a compromised draft, that would have otherwise had JOM and Brad Crouch in it, Dayle Garlett was considered a top 5 talent, who didn't get picked up at all and Jack Viney went at 26, after being bid on at 7. So 24 was more like 28 and having a look at it, that was a bloody ordinary draft after the first 7 (or 8, if you include Viney), whereas this year's draft is meant to be a very good one up until at least 30-35. Knowing what we do about who's in this year's draft pool and that Nathan played HBF in his draft year, didn't get much of the ball and is a terrible kick, I doubt very much he'd go in the top 40 of this year's draft, whereas SPP could go anywhere from about 15-30.

PP is probably not as good defensively (very few would be), but I think he'd still be very capable defensively, given his size, aggression, competitiveness and speed and I fully expect he'll be much more of a threat offensively and much more versatile, with the ability to rotate through the guts and be a real impact type in there. He's also listed at an inch or so taller (188cm in some places) and may still have a bit of growth in him, so could end up a big, powerful, explosive wrecking ball.

To me he's much more like a cross between Wrighty, Mav and Dustin Martin than a Wrighty clone.

Having watched a bit of him, what is your opinion of his disposal?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Having watched a bit of him, what is your opinion of his disposal?

From say the first time I saw him play his kicking didn't stand out to me as being technically bad. There are some that you watch where the way they drop the ball onto their boot is really poor and it sticks out immediately, but I didn't go away from my first viewing or two of him remembering him being a terrible kick of the footy (having not heard of him prior to that game, so I wasn't expecting or not expecting anything).

Not having watched him super-closely to really analyse it, but to me I suspect a lot of his poor kicks are more as a result of poor decision making than a technically poor kick. Like "why the hell did he kick it there?" sort of thing. He probably blazes away a bit too often. He may also be technically poor, but again, it didn't stick out to me as something I remembered, although that may just be because the thing that really stuck in my mind about him was the way he broke the lines with seriously good run that had me thinking, "wow, we could really do with some of that!!".

Obviously it's far from ideal for him to either have poor decision making or a poor kick, but when you're picking at 23, pretty much everyone is going to have holes in their game of some sort, so it's just a matter of whether he brings enough of the things you want to the table and doesn't do too much of the things you don't, to make it not worth picking him.

If you're picking him, it's not because he's perfect, but because he's a "difference maker". He makes things happen, can bust games open and really stands out and is physical, aggressive and big. He is I imagine the type of guy who could lift his team in big moments and is meant to have good leadership qualities.

Again, Gilbo came top 3 in our B&F in a GF year in 2010 for a lot of similar reasons and Harry O'Brien was probably a similar sort for Collingwood. He would just blaze away with long bombs most of the time, but he regularly broke games open with his run, gained his team a lot of meterage and made an AA team in a premiership year as a result. You wouldn't necessarily want 22 of them in your team, but one or two can really have their place and make a difference.

With the way we like to play and really move the ball quickly and take the game on, I reckon we could really do with someone like SPP. On the other hand, we may think we already have him, in Mav.

Edit: Speaking of Mav, one thing that SPP does have going for his kicking is that, like Mav's, it's powerful and he can kick it long. Prior to this year I would have said that Mav is a powerful kick who can kick it with penetration up to 60m, but that he missed far too many short targets (which is probably what you'd say about SPP), but this year Mav's kicking improved considerably- so much so that I'd now pretty much call it a weapon- so maybe we'd be able to get SPP's kicking to improve a similar amount, if Gilbee gets a hold of him.