List Mgmt. Draft Performance

[Scorpus]

So players remaining on our list from 2007-2011

Walker
Otten
Sloane
Talia
Smith
CEY

I don't know what the AFL average is, but would think this was under whelming

We spent a fair bit of currency though those years on trades, particularly in 2011

Davis leaving netted us, along with a first round pick in 2011, both Brad Crouch and Luke Brown. Davis, Brown and Crouch are all still on AFL lists.

Gunston leaving netted us Jenkins. We also traded Maric for Tom Lynch. Griffin was traded for a pick we used for Jarryd Lyons who is also still on a list. Kerridge, Wright, McKernan and Henderson were also drafted during that period and remain on lists.

So the real list is:

Walker
Otten
Sloane
Talia
Smith
CEY
Gunston (traded for Jenkins)
Davis (left and gave us B. Crouch and Brown)
Lyons (traded)
Kerridge (traded)
Dangerfield (traded)
Wright (DFA)
Henderson (DFA)
McKernan (DFA)

Not every player we directly drafted from 2007-2011 remains at Adelaide, but 14 are still on AFL lists, and we have 12 players on our list from currency drafted in that period

 

[Paladin]

Good drafting, s**t retention sums us up I would've thought. We also find good value in young guys not getting a chance like Lynch, Jenkins etc.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Or we could just compare how many flags each club has won recently.
Hawks = 4
Cats = 3
Bulldogs = 1
Adelaide = 0

Picking up workman like B graders from late picks doesnt tend to get you flags.

Little simplistic.

Dueyea, Suckling & Puopolo were all taken picks 60+ & all have contributed to Hawks flags.

A team isn't filled with just A graders & making the most of all draft picks is important.

 

[jag]

One of the things that impacts on the analysis of drafting in this way is that we have a strong history of not gifting new draftees with games. In contrast to some other clubs (eg Melbourne, Carlton etc.) where new draftees have expected to play in their first year, that is highly unusual for us. It is something that I applaud our club for. In fact, as both a double blue supporter and an earlier follower of him as a junior, I wonder how Jack Trengrove's career would have been different in a club environment such as ours.
Coming back to my point however. Our players will generally play less games in the first couple of years, when compared to clubs with this different philosophy. This will push their ranking lower.
However it is fair to compare with clubs with a similar philosophy eg. Sydney or West Coast.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Summary

Year Crows, Hawks, Cats, Dogs
2007 +41, +14, -19, -9
2008 +8, +54, -23, -31
2009 +24, +74, +23, +49
2010 +171, +47, -38, +41
2011 +49, +61, +84, +58
2012 +37, -34, -2, +117
2013 +112, +66, -43, -18
2014 +19, -3, +31, +59
2015 -40, -14, +43, +24

2007-2013 Average (excluding last 2 years as too early)
Crows 63.1
Hawks 40.3
Cats 9.7
Dogs 29.6

Crows have consistently recruited well above average for picks available (retention is another issue).
Hawks also recruited well during the premiership years, including bargain later picks.
Cats recruiting under Wells has been average, but has improved since 2013 (though explains why they lack depth & talent coming through)
Dogs recruiting has been great since 2009.

Imagine if this was repeated for the bottom teams & the likes of Carlton, it would be an ugly story.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

One of the things that impacts on the analysis of drafting in this way is that we have a strong history of not gifting new draftees with games. In contrast to some other clubs (eg Melbourne, Carlton etc.) where new draftees have expected to play in their first year, that is highly unusual for us. It is something that I applaud our club for. In fact, as both a double blue supporter and an earlier follower of him as a junior, I wonder how Jack Trengrove's career would have been different in a club environment such as ours.
Coming back to my point however. Our players will generally play less games in the first couple of years, when compared to clubs with this different philosophy. This will push their ranking lower.
However it is fair to compare with clubs with a similar philosophy eg. Sydney or West Coast.

Agree, which is why the last 2 years is misleading.

 

[1970crow]

So players remaining on our list from 2007-2011

Walker
Otten
Sloane
Talia
Smith
CEY

I don't know what the AFL average is, but would think this was under whelming

Dangerfield, Davis, Gunston, Lyons, Henderson, Kerridge, Wright still on AFL lists and all contributed strongly in season 2016. Thread is about drafting, which given our picks, is clearly pretty decent over those few years.

 

[1970crow]

Fair pickup. Says just how overrated Rendell's recruiting record really is/was.

Kind of missed those that are still playing elsewhere though. Not that great a pickup.

 

[Cleric]

Little simplistic.

Dueyea, Suckling & Puopolo were all taken picks 60+ & all have contributed to Hawks flags.

A team isn't filled with just A graders & making the most of all draft picks is important.

Its 18 years since our last flag, and we look a ways off from the top talented sides going around.
I only care about flags. I dont want to just compete.
Our club unfortunatly, along with alot of supporters, is happy to finish 4-10 every year.

 

[Cleric]

The thread is about drafting.

List management is about putting together a list to win a flag. To look at individual wins and losses at the draft table to draw a conclusion that we are ace at drafting is a fail unless we are playing in GFs.

 

[marty36]

Its 18 years since our last flag, and we look a ways off from the top talented sides going around.
I only care about flags. I dont want to just compete.
Our club unfortunatly, along with alot of supporters, is happy to finish 4-10 every year.

We are above average, simple as that, but that please a lot of crows supporters

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Its 18 years since our last flag, and we look a ways off from the top talented sides going around.
I only care about flags. I dont want to just compete.
Our club unfortunatly, along with alot of supporters, is happy to finish 4-10 every year.

You have really missed the point of this thread...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

We are above average, simple as that, but that please a lot of crows supporters

We are more than above average - we would be around the best at drafting.

The reasons we have not won a flag recently a have little to do with our drafting ability... despite your meltdowns suggesting otherwise.

 

[Iron]

List management is about putting together a list to win a flag. To look at individual wins and losses at the draft table to draw a conclusion that we are ace at drafting is a fail unless we are playing in GFs.

Two separate issues. You can put a good list together and fail to win a premiership.

 

[Doedee Bros]

our mid range drafting is the only thing standing between us and high draft picks

 

[Allefgib]

Fair pickup. Says just how overrated Rendell's recruiting record really is/was.

Ummm... isn't it more highlighting our issue in keeping top end talent?
What a terrible comment.

 

[Samcro24]

Ummm... isn't it more highlighting our issue in keeping top end talent?
What a terrible comment.

Tend to agree with Vader here. Aside from sloane and gunston not a lot of great picks beyond round 1. Plenty of total busts in that lot too.

 

[Thetrader15]

2012

-27 Siggins (62 v 89)
+44 Atkins (81 v 37)
+20 Callinan (95 v 75)
+37 Total

Late picks with Tippett sanctions, but picked a gem in Atkins & late value from Callinan.

Hawks
-27 O'Brien 28 v 55
0 Brand 66 v 66
-7 Osborne 70 v 77
-34 Total

Cats
-26 Thurlow 16 v 42
-1 Hartman 77 v 78
+25 Stringer 92 v 67
-2 Total

Dogs
-4 Stringer 5 v 9
0 Macrae 6 v 6
-17 Hrovat 21 v 38
+32 Hunter FS 49 v 17
-30 Prudden 50 v 80
+53 Campbell 98 v 45
+85 Johannisen 105 v 20
+117 Total

Think the dogs won this one

 

[Thetrader15]

Ummm... isn't it more highlighting our issue in keeping top end talent?
What a terrible comment.

Was it good drafting or great development?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Was it good drafting or great development?

Or both.

 

[dogs105]

List management is about putting together a list to win a flag. To look at individual wins and losses at the draft table to draw a conclusion that we are ace at drafting is a fail unless we are playing in GFs.

Wouldn't be much of a discussion forum if we couldn't discuss the myriad aspects of the club and player development.

"Did we win the flag?"
"No"



Not doing a lot to help Chief there.

 

[Thetrader15]

Or both.

Just bad retention

 

[Cleric]

Wouldn't be much of a discussion forum if we couldn't discuss the myriad aspects of the club and player development.

"Did we win the flag?"
"No"



Not doing a lot to help Chief there.

Anything else is a failure.
"we drafted Rory Sloane with pick 44"
"how good is our list management"
"they are beyond question"

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Anything else is a failure.
"we drafted Rory Sloane with pick 44"
"how good is our list management"
"they are beyond question"

Perhaps you could start an everything else is a failure thread as this one is about our drafting.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If we drafted worse our retention would be better