Draft Picks in hindsight.......

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Over the past few working days, I've slowly worked through our draft picks since the end of the

1998 season, and who we picked up, compared to who we missed out on, and if we had've drafted

perfectly (at least who In my opinion), this could well have been our squad for this 2003 season:

For mine, our strongest 22 would then be:
Forwards - Phil Matera (WCE) - Brendan Fevola (CB) - Andrew Krakouer (RT)
HalfForwards - Andrew Embley (WCE) - Jonathan Brown (BL) - Ashley Sampi (WCE)
Centres - Chad Fletcher (WCE) - Ben Cousins (WCE) - Chris Judd (WCE)
Halfbacks - Ryan Lonie (CM) - Glen Jakovich (WCE) - Daniel Chick (WCE)
Backs - David Wirrpunda (WCE) - Travis Gaspar (WCE) - Ashley McGrath (BL)
Rucks - Michael Gardiner (WCE) - Daniel Kerr (WCE) - Adam Ramanauskas (EB)
Interchange - Dean Cox (WCE) - Graham Johncoc|< (AC) - Cameron Bruce (MD) - Campbell Brown (HH)

Just Outside: Dion Woods (FD), Nathan Lonie (HH), David Spriggs (GC), Phil Read (WCE), Chad Morrison (WCE), Drew Banfield (WCE), Ashley McIntosh (WCE), Michael Braun (WCE), Mark McGough (CM), Rowan Jones (WCE), Corey Enright (GC), Jarrad Schofield (PAP)

Rest of the Squad: Troy Wilson (WCE), Quinten Lynch (WCE), Damien Adkins (WCE), Adam Selwood (WCE), Paul Johnson (WCE), Michael Collica (WCE), Josh Wooden (WCE), Brent Staker (WCE), Mark Nicoski (WCE Rookie), Zac Beeck (WCE Rookie)

As good as we are going at the moment, there is no way that this team wouldn't be the strongest

team in the AFL. There is not one player in that strongest 22 (and quite a few outside of it) who doesn't have the potential to be an All Australian at some point during their career from this season onwards. In the next post, I'll put down what our draft picks, and trades would've been to

get this list.

Ahhhh the beauty of hindsight!!
 

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Thread starter #2
We finished 1998 with these guys (only players who are currently on AFL lists):
Drew Banfield, Michael Braun, Callum Chambers, Ben Cousins, Chad Fletcher, Michael Gardiner, Glen Jakovich, Rowan Jones, Phil Matera, Ashley McIntosh, Chad Morrison, Phil Read, Jarrad Schofield, David Wirrpunda, Josh Wooden, Jason Ball, Brendan Fewster, Fraser Gehrig, Mithcell White, Andrew Williams. There are 20 guys there.


1998:
Cancelled Chad Rintoul for Draft Pick 80
Cancelled Jarrad Schofield for Scott Cummings
Pick 10 - Adam Ramanauskas (picked up at 12 by Essendon) (we picked up Brandon Hill with draft pick 10)
Pick 26 - Brendan Fevola (picked up at 38 by Carlton) (we picked up Michael O'Brien)
Pick 57 - Andrew Embley (we picked up Andrew Embley)
Pick 69 - Rupert Butheras (picked up at 76 by Collingwood) (we picked up Scott Bennett)
Pick 80 - Shannon Motlop (picked up at 85 by Kangaroos) (Adelaide pick up Brodie Atkinson)
Pick 89 - Shane Clayton (picked up at 90 by Kangaroos) (we picked up Joel Duckworth)

1999:
Agreed with Jason Ball for Draft Picks 11 and 41
Agreed with Brendan Fewster for Draft Pick 16
Pick 11 - David Spriggs (picked up at 15 by Geelong) (we picked up Darren Glass)
Pick 14 - Travis Gaspar (we picked up Travis Gaspar)
Pick 16 - Jonathan Brown (picked up at 30 by Brisbane) (we picked up David Haynes)
Pick 29 - Corey Enright (picked up at 47 by Geelong) (we picked up Adam Hunter)
Pick 41 - Cameron Bruce (picked up at 64 by Melbourne) (we picked up Kane Munro)

2000:
Cancelled Draft Pick 27 for Michael Prior
Cancelled Draft Pick 51 for Greg Harding
Cancelled Draft Pick 57 for Mark Merenda
Agreed with Draft Pick 21 for Michael Collica and Richard Taylor
Agreed with Mitchell White for Draft Pick 45
Agreed with Fraser Gehrig for David Sierakowski and Draft Pick 18
Pick 5 - Ashley McGrath (picked up by Brisbane at 13) (we picked up Andrew McDougall)
Pick 18 - Daniel Kerr (we picked up Daniel Kerr)
Pick 27 - Ryan Lonie (picked up by Collingwood at 34) (Essendon picked up Ted Richards)
Pick 36 - Andrew Krakouer (picked up by Richmond at 41) (we picked up Jeremy Humm)
Pick 45 - Dion Woods (picked up by Fremantle at 51) (we picked up Trent Carroll)
Pick 51 - Nathan Lonie (picked up by Hawthorn at 58) (Fremantle picked up Dion Woods)
Pick 57 - Graham Johncoc|< (picked up by Adelaide at 67) (St Kilda picked up Steven Sziller)
Dean Cox and Kasey Green elevated from Rookie List

2001:
No Trades
Pick 3 - Chris Judd (we picked up Chris Judd)
Pick 6 - Ashley Sampi (we picked up Ashley Sampi)
Pick 22 - Campbell Brown (picked up by Hawthorn at 32) (we picked up Mark Seaby)
Pick 38 - Mark McGough (picked up by Collingwood at 43) (we picked up Ashley Hansen)
Troy Wilson picked up in pre-season draft

2002:
Agreed with Andrew Williams for Damien Adkins
Agreed with Draft Pick 8 for Daniel Chick
Pick 24 - Paul Johnson (we picked up Paul Johnson)
Pick 37 - Brent Staker (we picked up Brent Staker)
Pick 53 - Adam Selwood (we picked up Adam Selwood)
Quinten Lynch elevated from Rookie List

Over the past few years, Shannon Motlop, Rupert Betheras, Callum Chambers, David Sierakowski and

Shannon Motlop would've been delisted. Kasey Green wouldn't have been elevated if we had the

squad we already had.
 

Sera

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#3
Originally posted by Black Thunder
Pick 16 - Jonathan Brown (picked up at 30 by Brisbane) (we picked up David Haynes)
Jonathon brown was Father/Son so we never had a chance of picking him up...

Haselby and Pavlich were both totally overlooked as 17yo's in 98 [clubs were allowed to take one 17yo] and we went with Embley.

And in 2000, I would have gone with Kerr at 5 and Couglan at 18.

Pick 38 2001 could have been Medhurst or Cambell Brown under father/son...
 

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Originally posted by Sera
Jonathon brown was Father/Son so we never had a chance of picking him up...

Haselby and Pavlich were both totally overlooked as 17yo's in 98 [clubs were allowed to take one 17yo] and we went with Embley.

And in 2000, I would have gone with Kerr at 5 and Couglan at 18.

Pick 38 2001 could have been Medhurst or Cambell Brown under father/son...

Didn't realize Jon Brown was father/son. I knew some guys who were but didn't have a list or anything so I tended not to worry about them.

As for Haselby and Pav, are you sure they nominated for the draft?? seems highly unlikely two guys of that quality would've just completely overlooked at picked up in the first 5 the year after.

Also with Coughlan, I was thinking of doing that but McGrath would add some definate toughness in our team, and a 20 year old who is currently a shoe-in starting member of a premiership team can only be a good asset for a club. Considerign the midfield talent we have we wouldn't need Coughlan.

Did we try to get Brown under the father/son rule??
 

Sera

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#5
Originally posted by Black Thunder
Didn't realize Jon Brown was father/son. I knew some guys who were but didn't have a list or anything so I tended not to worry about them.

As for Haselby and Pav, are you sure they nominated for the draft?? seems highly unlikely two guys of that quality would've just completely overlooked at picked up in the first 5 the year after.

Also with Coughlan, I was thinking of doing that but McGrath would add some definate toughness in our team, and a 20 year old who is currently a shoe-in starting member of a premiership team can only be a good asset for a club. Considerign the midfield talent we have we wouldn't need Coughlan.

Did we try to get Brown under the father/son rule??
We were never really interested in Brown who actually didn't show that much at junior level. The thing is when you drafted him he also came with his old man which probably put off Eagles officials. I would have Coughlan before McGrath easily.

Haselby and Pav were both definately looked over in 98. The Crows were tossing up between McGregor and Pavlich as their 17yo and they went with McGregor [which is why they were often compared by crows fans early on]. The Eagles were tossing up between Embley [a highly rated junior] and Haselby but figured Haselby was too slow.
 

Mr Q

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#6
Originally posted by Black Thunder
As for Haselby and Pav, are you sure they nominated for the draft?? seems highly unlikely two guys of that quality would've just completely overlooked at picked up in the first 5 the year after.
Not sure about Haselby, but I'm almost certain that Pavlich was in the draft the year before he was drafted.

Originally posted by Black Thunder
1998:
Pick 57 - Andrew Embley (we picked up Andrew Embley)
Didn't realise Embley was that low. Still I reckon a year ago you would have found someone - anyone eles to pick in his place.
 

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Thread starter #8
Originally posted by Sera
And in a few years time you'll be asking the same question of our #2 pick we get off the doggies next year.

We're doing what now :confused:

If its get something to do with Judd, I'd rather be positive and I have a feeling he will stay. It's exactly like Pavlich last year, when he was "a deadset certainty" to return to SA - greeeeeeaat prediction :eek:
 

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#9
i don't think that we could have got campbell brown as he never really wanted to play for the eagles.


i'm glad that we didn't end up with Brendan Fevola or Andrew Krakouer. Andrew might end up OK but Fevola is a head case.
 

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#10
i hate to be picky, after all, the thread made good reading, but there are some things which make some of this impossible, even in hindsight, and I stress I am being picky.

Cam Bruce was a supp list player at Melbourne, hence they had the right to nominate to draft him, and they did. So you can find another player for that pick 41/Kane Munro slot.

told you i was being picky, good read though, just reminds you of although the fook ups.

thegur
 

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#11
Embley will prove to be more valuable than Pavlich or Haselby i'd say. On this year's form he's easily the better player.
The speed of the other two is starting to become a problem.

Of the best team. Only John**** is dissapointing not to have,

Possible trade: Dean Cox for James Clement next year.
 

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llosis

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#12
Agreed - interesting read Blakc Thunder. Although there are some interesting ones there I don't reckon in hindsight w've done all that badly. Especially compared to the 1995 - 1997 era which was almost a complete waste of time and effort.

Originally posted by drexel
Embley will prove to be more valuable than Pavlich or Haselby i'd say. On this year's form he's easily the better player.
Couple of big calls there drexel.

Embley has been good but it's pretty debatable as whether he;s a more valuable player than Pav and Haselby. Whenever you start tlaking about who's more valuable you get into shifting ground as "valuable" is so much more subjective than "better" (which can be proven by stats). I had the arguement on the other board with the dockers supporters who reckoned Hayden was more valuable to them than Judd is to us.

Embley is definately a valuable player to us and if you traded him for Pavlich or Haselby it certainly would change the makeup of our team. But I don't know if he's more valuable. Either way glad we kept Embers and didn't trade him last year.

Originally posted by drexel
Possible trade: Dean Cox for James Clement next year.
Please tell me your joking.

There is no value in flogging off a developing ruckman for a 27 y.o. flanker. Never has been. Never will be. If we want a backman then we need to draft one or rookie list a prospect or too. I reckon trades are sometimes an overrated way of building your team. Particularly for docker rejects
 

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#13
Yep, Pavlich was able to be drafted in 1998 as a 17 year old, I don't think Hasleby nominated for that draft though.

As has been said, Jonathan Brown was selected by Brisbane under the father/son rule.
 

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#14
Originally posted by drexel
Embley will prove to be more valuable than Pavlich or Haselby i'd say.
:D

Not even Jod would make such a ridiculous statement. ;)


On this year's form he's easily the better player.
His form so far this year is about level with Pavlich but Hasleby has been significantly better than Embley. I'm sure most people would agree.


The speed of the other two is starting to become a problem.
Pavlich is not slow. His accelaration, although impressive for a man at 98kg, is fairly average compared to other midfielders but his top speed and running capacity is freakish given his large physique.

Hasleby was slow when he was drafted but has been working on his pace and fitness throughout the pre-seasons. His pace now, although not overly quick, is up to the standard of AFL football.


Possible trade: Dean Cox for James Clement next year.
You would be the losers of that trade.
 

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#16
Originally posted by drexel
Embley will prove to be more valuable than Pavlich or Haselby i'd say. On this year's form he's easily the better player.
Stats wise, I would say that Pavlich and Embley are having similar years :

disposals Avg Marks Goals

Embley 216 19.6 62 15
Pavlich 215 19.5 52 14

Hase 258 23.5 69 9 (#1 or 2 in league goal assists)

A case for Embley/Pavlich having similar years, but Hase is still having a better year than both on form.
 

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#17
Yep, Pavlich nominated for the draft, but Hasleby didn't... I am 90% sure of that.

As for Embley, he is having a top season and it's good that he is playing consistant footy for the first time in his career but let's wait until he gets an AA guernsey and B&F until we start comparing them. One thing I'm sure of, throw Pavlich into your side and suddenly you would look a hell of a lot stronger.
 

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#19
Why? So Pavlich can get 0 possesions in the first quarter of a derby!!!

I just think he's overated. He's not a CHF. He's not a CHB (see games against Richmond and Port) Definately a gun in the back-half playing the rebounding role but he doesn't scare many teams in midfield.
 

Kenny_01

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#20
Originally posted by drexel
Why? So Pavlich can get 0 possesions in the first quarter of a derby!!!

I just think he's overated. He's not a CHF. He's not a CHB (see games against Richmond and Port) Definately a gun in the back-half playing the rebounding role but he doesn't scare many teams in midfield.
He's not a CHB? He was awesome there last year. I suggest you get out some tapes from last season. He had 2 bad games (they were the Port and Richmond games). And he hasn't had a chance to play CHF since 2001 where he did alright as well, but was only 19 and still developing.

So he's not allowed one bad quarter against the Eagles? What about the derby before that, and the pre-season derby.

But I agree about the midfield. He should start at CHF and run his opponent around like Tarrant or Tredrea do. He has a distinct advantage there, rather than in the middle where a lot of midfielders can keep up with him. And he is great at outmarking his opponent 1 on 1 using his body strength, but he just doesn't get the chance to do that in our forward line.
 

Voice of Reason

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#21
Originally posted by Kenny_01
He's not a CHB? He was awesome there last year. I suggest you get out some tapes from last season. He had 2 bad games (they were the Port and Richmond games). And he hasn't had a chance to play CHF since 2001 where he did alright as well, but was only 19 and still developing.

So he's not allowed one bad quarter against the Eagles? What about the derby before that, and the pre-season derby.

But I agree about the midfield. He should start at CHF and run his opponent around like Tarrant or Tredrea do. He has a distinct advantage there, rather than in the middle where a lot of midfielders can keep up with him. And he is great at outmarking his opponent 1 on 1 using his body strength, but he just doesn't get the chance to do that in our forward line.
If I could have one player from elsewhere, that player might be Pavlich (I think it's Nathan Brown, but anyway).

Pavlich will make a great CHF if he's played there. One of my criticisms of Connelly (who's obviously doing a pretty good job) is that he should play Pavlich at CHF and (if he makes the team at all, which most times he shouldn't) Croad at CHB.
 

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#22
Originally posted by Kenny_01
He's not a CHB? He was awesome there last year. I suggest you get out some tapes from last season. He had 2 bad games (they were the Port and Richmond games). And he hasn't had a chance to play CHF since 2001 where he did alright as well, but was only 19 and still developing.

So he's not allowed one bad quarter against the Eagles? What about the derby before that, and the pre-season derby.

But I agree about the midfield. He should start at CHF and run his opponent around like Tarrant or Tredrea do. He has a distinct advantage there, rather than in the middle where a lot of midfielders can keep up with him. And he is great at outmarking his opponent 1 on 1 using his body strength, but he just doesn't get the chance to do that in our forward line.
Agreed. Connolly seems to be getting results, but I think he's very very wrong about Pavlich. When played in the midfield, he's just a midfielder with average speed and below average agility who happens to be a bit bigger than most. Play him as a kpp, and he's a strong mark who is suddenly vastly more mobile than most similar players into the ground. Croad to CHB, Pavlich to CHF would make the dockers a vastly better side.
 

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#23
I agree, Pavlich should be played at CHF. When playing in the midfield, he is slightly quicker than most midfielders but not as agile. He doesn't appear to use his size to his advantage in the midfield either. I don't often see him lay a solid bump or run forward of the play to present as another forward option. In fact, I'd say Matty Carr and Hasleby do this more often than him (both are also good overhead). Also, most of his goals are kicked from outside 50 on the run, not from outmarking his smaller opponent.

I'd prefer him to be playing at CHF where he can lead up the ground to run his opponent ragged like Tarrant, Tredrea and Richardson do, and use his strong overhead marking skills to his advantage.

Not sure about Croad at CHB though, he seems to be lost and out of position against his opponent quite often in defence. He would be very damaging off a HBF, however.
 

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#24
At Freo, it looks like Longmuir, Haselby, Medhurst, Woods, Carr, Hayden, Bell all have provided more value then Pavlich this season.
Hell if we had drafted Woods and Hayden, we'd be sitting on top.
 

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#25
Originally posted by drexel
At Freo, it looks like Longmuir, Haselby, Medhurst, Woods, Carr, Hayden, Bell all have provided more value then Pavlich this season.
Hell if we had drafted Woods and Hayden, we'd be sitting on top.
Same if we drafted Kerr & Judd !!
 
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