Draft primer: Collingwood

[Dave The Man]

Draft primer: Collingwood

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By Jason Phelan 9:05 AM Tue 18 November, 2008

Jackson Trengove (right) may be a chance to go to the Magpies at No.11
Today's headlines

• Draft primers: Crows, Lions, Blues, Pies
  Tue, Nov 18, 08
• Draft primer: Carlton
  Tue, Nov 18, 08
• Draft primer: Collingwood
  Tue, Nov 18, 08

Today's videos

• HawksTV Feature: Crawford, part 2
  Mon, Nov 17, 08
• MEBs Paul Kelly Chats to FTV
  Mon, Nov 17, 08
• Saints commence pre-season training
  Mon, Nov 17, 08

COLLINGWOOD

Picks: 11, 29, 45, 46, 73

Departures:

Scott Burns, Chris Egan, Brodie Holland, Sam Iles, Ryan Lonie, Rhyce Shaw, Tobias Thoolen, Shane Wakelin, Luke Casey-Leigh (rookie).

Where's the club at?

After two years well out of contention the Pies have contested the past three finals series for finishes of seventh, fourth and sixth. Mick Malthouse has continued to blood the youngsters during that period, which should stand his side in good stead in 2009. Defensive concerns aside, Magpie fans will be confident of a fourth successive season of September action, but it remains to be seen whether their list is strong enough to challenge for a top-two position.

Needs:

An onballer and a key defender top the club's shopping list, with the need for a tall defensive prospect to groom for the future probably slightly outweighing the Pies' midfield requirements. The retirements of Scott Burns and Shane Wakelin leave holes in both positions, but the club has more kids – such as Sharrod Wellingham, John McCarthy and Danny Stanley – it hopes will be ready to take on more responsibility through the middle than it does down back.

Nathan Brown looks set to hold down one of the key defensive posts for the foreseeable future, but Simon Prestigiacomo, with age and recent injury history against him, can't be relied upon to fill the other on a regular basis in 2009, and there are few heirs apparent in the wings.

Recent drafts:

The Pies' first pick in 2007 wasn't until 31st overall and it was used on midfielder John McCarthy. The second pick (47) was used to try and bolster the big man stocks, but Toby Thoolen has already departed the club. Collingwood went heavy on height the year before with Ben Reid (8), Nathan Brown (10), Chris Dawes (28) and Tyson Goldsack (63) all taller than 193cm.

Chance of taking recycled players:

With the spectre of GC 17 looming on the horizon, clubs appear hell-bent on stocking up with youngsters, making it a particularly bad time to be a recently delisted AFL player. The Pies took a long, hard look at Ben Cousins before declaring they weren't interested in the Brownlow medallist, but even so there might still be some water left to flow under that particular bridge. Irishman Colm Begley will do a pre-season with the club after the Brisbane Lions delisted him last month.

What recruiting manager Derek Hine says:

"From our perspective, especially with our first draft pick, we'll be selecting the best player available and post that, it will be very much a needs-oriented draft. I think there's opportunities for all clubs to confidently select a player of need and be safe in the knowledge that they won't be overlooking a Chris Judd or whoever it might be. I think that it's going to be a very needs-oriented draft; after this year's draft we'll have 27 players under the age of 21, so we'll just continue to develop the boys and try and get the right balance."

We say:

Jackson Trengove is in the mix at the Pies' No.11 pick if they do decide to go down the key defender path. If they opt to bolster the midfield Sam Blease, Ashley Smith or Luke Shuey might suit, but all bets are off if Steele Sidebottom or Chris Yarran slips to them. With the second pick at 29, depending on how the first round goes, midfielder Dan Hannebery could be in the mix. They may even look to a project ruckman late after the departure of Thoolen, with Tom Hill or Bart McCulloch possibilities.

Interesting they say we may go for Trengove - My Man.

No Mention of Beams or Swift

Story Here

 

[Hal3000]

Adelaide will take Trengrove

 

[Bloben]

Seems like a good plan to get best available at 11 then look on a needs basis.

 

[shawthing09]

Dave this is all speculation and hence article to article will vary depending on the opinion of the writter etc. Your not going to find the answer to who the best player or who we will take at pick 11 will be.

 

[Dave The Man]

Dave this is all speculation and hence article to article will vary depending on the opinion of the writter etc. Your not going to find the answer to who the best player or who we will take at pick 11 will be.

I know they are just having a Go and They are just saying who might be available and who we might take.

I put that and put it in caculations for Possible draft picks on Draft Day

 

[Crazy Tails]

I would love Trengove at 11 but I think that Carlton, Richmond and Adelaide could be a chance to take him before he gets to us. Trengove to me also seems to be a "Hine" type of selection. Tall, athletic and Victorian. If we did get him that would be the KPD covered so we could then go best available mids at 29 (Hannebury/Beams) and 45 then a ruck prospect such as Roughead, Redden, Hill or McCulloch at 46.

I would be stoked if we went:
11- Trengove
29 - Beams/Hannebury
45 - Best available mid
46 - Best remaining ruck prospect
73 - Unless there is someone left that Hine really rates, Pass and go to PSD.

 

[donnie5]

i wouldnt be fussed if trengrove slipped to us, however id rather sidebottom or swift.

pick 11 - sidebottom/swift/trengrove if not any of those guys. best available
pick 29 - beams
pick 45 - best available mid
pick 46 - Ruckman or KPD

id be very happy with something like that

 

[shawthing09]

FWIW I don't rate that article for a fair few reasons. Yarran at 11 would have me very upset for a fair while. Inconsistant athlete with flair and goal sense. Attitude or at least work rate issues. Lazy Lazy Lazy. It would be more acceptable if he was a lazy athlete with a real football brain but IMO his a real Egan MKII.

Trengrove is good, I wouldn't be overly disappointed with us going down that path, although I wouldn't agree with it. Personally don't think he is going to be clearly the best player avalible at pick 11, He will probably be clearly the best avalible KPP at pick 11 but I don't think he will be clear cut above the best mid and hence I think we should address the more pressing need.

Ruck at 29 would almost be out of the question especially if we went down the path of Trengrove at 11. There are not that many rucks drafted each year. There will clearly be a decent project ruck avalible in the 3rd round. I would suggest it would be smarter to take advantage of the extended rookie list to take another ruck. The delisting of Thoolen shouldn't impact or ruck situation as according to the club he was a project KPP

 

[Chase the Ace]

Adelaide will take Trengrove

I think you're right, but that means someone like Yarran or Sidebottom may still be there at 11.
Its all good

 

[Hal3000]

I think you're right, but that means someone like Yarran or Sidebottom may still be there at 11.
Its all good

We can't lose, there are about 15 ripper kids.. one of them is coming our way.

 

[shawthing09]

We can't lose, there are about 15 ripper kids.. one of them is coming our way.

This is said a lot. Yet guys like Blease and Yarran are mentioned as possible top 10's and a guy like Suban is mentioned as a first rounder. I see your point in that there is going to be talent avalible at our pick regardless of which way the top 10 go but I am certainly not as confident as you. Like I said if Yarran slips to us and we end up with him I'd be extremely nervous same can be said if we take Blease.

 

[Hal3000]

This is said a lot. Yet guys like Blease and Yarran are mentioned as possible top 10's and a guy like Suban is mentioned as a first rounder. I see your point in that there is going to be talent avalible at our pick regardless of which way the top 10 go but I am certainly not as confident as you. Like I said if Yarran slips to us and we end up with him I'd be extremely nervous same can be said if we take Blease.

Some say Yarran is the most talented player in the draft, there's just a question mark over application.. and Blease is a bottom aged turbo rocket.. having said that there is a reason Selwood goes at number 7 instead of number 1.. nobody has a clue how these kids will turn out

 

[shawthing09]

Some say Yarran is the most talented player in the draft, there's just a question mark over application.. and Blease is a bottom aged turbo rocket.. having said that there is a reason Selwood goes at number 7 instead of number 1.. nobody has a clue how these kids will turn out

you have more alias's then anyone I have ever come across I give props to your commitment if nothing else.

There is no doubt Yarran is a talented athlete and a highly skilled player. In terms of an ability to do the freakish his probably the best in the draft. That doesn't make him the most talanted football his soft, outside and lazy. People mistke being laconic and lazy for being talanted. Sure if he had the work rate, toughness and strength of the others he would probably be the best player in the draft but he doesn't and more then likely never will.

 

[Hal3000]

There is no doubt Yarran is a talented athlete and a highly skilled player. In terms of an ability to do the freakish his probably the best in the draft. That doesn't make him the most talanted football his soft, outside and lazy. People mistke being laconic and lazy for being talanted. Sure if he had the work rate, toughness and strength of the others he would probably be the best player in the draft but he doesn't and more then likely never will.

Ahhh I see, you know him personally and have gotten inside his mind and know he will never apply himself.. wow all from behind your computer screen.. amazing

 

[shawthing09]

Ahhh I see, you know him personally and have gotten inside his mind and know he will never apply himself.. wow all from behind your computer screen.. amazing

No it is about identifying trends. He may be an exception but more then likely he won't be. Even if he gets drafted at 12 and is the best player in the draft it is not a big deal so long as at 11 we get a good player who fills our need.

 

[Hal3000]

No it is about identifying trends. He may be an exception but more then likely he won't be. Even if he gets drafted at 12 and is the best player in the draft it is not a big deal so long as at 11 we get a good player who fills our need.

That's rubbish, there could be any number of reasons he appears that way (all of which you would be uniquely unaware of) and he could turn it around at any moment, especially given the support and facilites of a professional AFL club.. you made a statement as if it were fact.. it isn't

 

[shawthing09]

That's rubbish, there could be any number of reasons he appears that way (all of which you would be uniquely unaware of) and he could turn it around at any moment, especially given the support and facilites of a professional AFL club.. you made a statement as if it were fact.. it isn't

I did not make a statement as if it where fact I said more then likely. I stand by it. He may have a unique situation which we are unaware of. He may turn it around. The truth of the matter more often then not it won't be some unique situation where he turns his work ethic and attitude around. I am not saying it is impossible but more often then not it goes the route of Egan, Hislop, Sampi, Lovett then the other way and for that reason he will more then likely he will continue in the manner in which he has to this point. Full 360's in attitude and application are very rare beyond a certain age.

 

[Hal3000]

I did not make a statement as if it where fact I said more then likely. I stand by it. He may have a unique situation which we are unaware of. He may turn it around. The truth of the matter more often then not it won't be some unique situation where he turns his work ethic and attitude around. I am not saying it is impossible but more often then not it goes the route of Egan, Hislop, Sampi, Lovett then the other way and for that reason he will more then likely he will continue in the manner in which he has to this point. Full 360's in attitude and application are very rare beyond a certain age.

You don't know him from a bar of soap and this amateur hour psychoanalysis is just embarrassing

 

[Outa McSporren]

Interesting they say we may go for Trengove - My Man.

No Mention of Beams or Swift

I'm really struggling to keep up which person is your man! I was pretty sure you had settled on Blease, he'll be extremely disappointed to hear that you have given him the burn!

 

[pendles]

"The Pies took a long, hard look at Ben Cousins before declaring they weren't interested in the Brownlow medallist, but even so there might still be some water left to flow under that particular bridge."

Bridge, water, what?

 

[HFF]

I made mention somewhere that I rated Trengove as the only tall I'd consider at pick 11 if he were available and I'd be pretty happy with his selection.

However, I still prefer Swift at 11.

 

[shawthing09]

You don't know him from a bar of soap and this amateur hour psychoanalysis is just embarrassing

I did no psychoanalysis what so ever. Simply stated that more often then not players drafted who have a low work ethic and lazy attitude stay that way. Referring to past trends and not talking about Yarran specifically at all.

If we want to talk psychology the vast majority of personality frameworks suggest that after the age of 7(give or take) a persons peronality traits are set and near impossible to change completely.

 

[Dave The Man]

Sampler would be Happy with Hannberry mentioned at 29

 

[Hal3000]

I did no psychoanalysis what so ever. Simply stated that more often then not players drafted who have a low work ethic and lazy attitude stay that way. Referring to past trends and not talking about Yarran specifically at all.

If we want to talk psychology the vast majority of personality frameworks suggest that after the age of 7(give or take) a persons peronality traits are set and near impossible to change completely.

No doubt you were saying the same about Leon until the last 2 seasons

 

[shawthing09]

No doubt you were saying the same about Leon until the last 2 seasons

Evidence of this? Now you are stating things as fact which are simply not true.