Mega Thread Draft Talk Part 1

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Winning our last few games and showing something is far more important than us moving up a few more spots in the draft

Disagree.

The top tier mids really last to about 10 maybe 12 in this draft.

Winning and potetnially finishing 9th (pick 18) or even 10th (pick 16) will significantly damage our draft chances.

Hoskin Elliot, Dyson and Kavanagh will be available around ten (at least 2). These kids are jets who could all potentially be a top 5 pick but will probably slide due to GWS needs.

I like winning but if it means missing out on even 2 spots in this draft I would prefer we lose. ON the day I can't help but to barrack for us to win, but I would also be semi celebrating post game if we lose.

Deledio, Cotchin, Martin Riewoldt, LEGGGGGGG

 

[richolovesgoal]

Re: drafting

Disagree.

The top tier mids really last to about 10 maybe 12 in this draft.

Winning and potetnially finishing 9th (pick 18) or even 10th (pick 16) will significantly damage our draft chances.

Hoskin Elliot, Dyson and Kavanagh will be available around ten (at least 2). These kids are jets who could all potentially be a top 5 pick but will probably slide due to GWS needs.

I like winning but if it means missing out on even 2 spots in this draft I would prefer we lose. ON the day I can't help but to barrack for us to win, but I would also be semi celebrating post game if we lose.

Deledio, Cotchin, Martin Riewoldt, LEGGGGGGG

But surely we can't be pinning our hopes on another draft pick. IMO it's more important to win our remainding games, than move up 2 or 3 spots in the draft.

I would like to see improvement on the park, and not in theory with draft picks.

I was happy to see us win that Melbourne game where McMahon kicked the winning goal. It showed heart, and we still got Martin.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Well I don't think we will beat North either way.

Adelaide is the toss of a coin and I would be more than happy to see it swing the wrong way.

We still have a lonnnnggggg way to go and getting another Dustin Martin type would just make us that much stronger again!!!

 

[Jimmy6019]

But surely we can't be pinning our hopes on another draft pick. IMO it's more important to win our remainding games, than move up 2 or 3 spots in the draft.

I would like to see improvement on the park, and not in theory with draft picks.

I was happy to see us win that Melbourne game where McMahon kicked the winning goal. It showed heart, and we still got Martin.

The problem is that we have heard it all before.. "momentum into next year" "earning respect" and other such cliches ect etc. The same things were said in 2008 when we won a string of meaningless games at the end of the season and scrambled to 9th.... and then lost 8 of the first 9 in 2009... once again becoming the joke of the competition (because we lacked real talent and got sucked in to our own hype).

Sorry but I'm tired of hollow promises and continous failure. I'll take talent over talk and blind faith anytime. I'll take the top 10 draft pick thanks...

 

[THE_GUN]

Re: drafting

Winning a bunch of games at the end of the year !

Could it mean our boys believe they are better than they really are and get cocky in the pre season ?

We certainly exceeded our expectations this year with an even younger list than 2010.

Thats enough for 2011 .......... Its done & Dusted, Plan for 2012 & Beyond

 

[Dustin Credible]

Re: drafting

It's an interesting debate on whether the recent wins are meaningless or even detrimental to our future.

I don't think either of these last two wins are meaningless. Sydney were (and still are) playing for a finals spot. Melbourne having sacked Bailey and been smashed in previous matches were playing to restore some pride. Many see the Demons and ourselves building a rivalry, as we both rise up the ladder at the same time. With Melbourne having the wood over us recently it was an important win, IMO, for future confidence in this fixture.

The Crows on the other hand could be considered meaningless (if we win), and North not (if they are still playing for finals).

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

I think the group really needed the last two wins and they were important. Truth be told if we lose the last two they probably won't affect our draft possie. But as stated above grabbing meaningless wins from poor sides now like Adel/North are not going to give us an extra boost next year. Having an A-Grade player who can step in and make an impact like Kavanagh, Hoskin-Elliot, Tyson ect will.

 

[Del65166]

Re: drafting

I hope we go out there to win and finish whereever - winning culture is very hard to develop

 

[Del65166]

Re: drafting

a win on the road would be invaluable experience for the young uns...and a win against north - who are flying - would be a real indicator of team improvement, game plan improvement - whatever. 2 wins would give the boys belief and confidence into 2012. And that's what its gunna be about in Dimma's 3rd year - time to start delivering.

 

[Barnzy]

Re: drafting

a win on the road would be invaluable experience for the young uns...and a win against north - who are flying - would be a real indicator of team improvement, game plan improvement - whatever. 2 wins would give the boys belief and confidence into 2012. And that's what its gunna be about in Dimma's 3rd year - time to start delivering.

People said the same thing 08, 09, 10, etc.

It has been proven time and time again late season wins for us that hurt draft position do nothing in regards to momentum heading into next season. Sadly, that is just how the system works. We've never taken full advantage of the system. I wouldn't be upset if we lost by 1 point this week if it means pick 10 not 14 or 16. Could mean the difference between who we want around that mark or who we will have to settle for depending on who teams before us choose.

No one remembers these wins in a few weeks anyways. Similarly, no one remembers the losses a few weeks. We're not going to be sitting here in the preseason and next year reminiscing about our grinding win against a coachless Adelaide are we?

 

[tigs2010]

Re: drafting

Its a good point to make that late season wins have not led to momentum for next season. Also, a good point that the quality of a mid at 10 and a mid at 14-18 will be a totally different level. Problem is I cant possibly hope we dont win. Having said that I think Adelaide are playing very well and should account for us anyway and North will likely be playing for a finals spot (I think they will win against the Saints).

The argument of last 2 weeks being meaningless wins is wrong. Both sides we have beaten were playing for finals and therefore were going 100%. Beating Melbourne gives us confidence in our future battles as they are touted to be a side battling us for premierships in the future. Good sides like Collingwood have struggled to put Sydney away and we flogged them so confidence in the game plan is gained.

If we are to lose the last 2 weeks I want us to stick to our plan and keep learning how to play it and be competetive. Not get blown away experimenting. Development of the game plan plus a quality mid will really hold us in good stead for next year.

Everyone start praying Kavanagh lasts to our pick (whatever pick that may end u) and Waldhuter lasts till our second and can take Tipungwuti and Morris later. Can see at least 3 of them being apart of the 22 next year. Trade out Graham and gain Maric. Delist Farmer, Nason, Webberley, Taylor.

 

[Jimmy6019]

Its a good point to make that late season wins have not led to momentum for next season. Also, a good point that the quality of a mid at 10 and a mid at 14-18 will be a totally different level. Problem is I cant possibly hope we dont win. Having said that I think Adelaide are playing very well and should account for us anyway and North will likely be playing for a finals spot (I think they will win against the Saints).

The argument of last 2 weeks being meaningless wins is wrong. Both sides we have beaten were playing for finals and therefore were going 100%. Beating Melbourne gives us confidence in our future battles as they are touted to be a side battling us for premierships in the future. Good sides like Collingwood have struggled to put Sydney away and we flogged them so confidence in the game plan is gained.

If we are to lose the last 2 weeks I want us to stick to our plan and keep learning how to play it and be competetive. Not get blown away experimenting. Development of the game plan plus a quality mid will really hold us in good stead for next year.

Everyone start praying Kavanagh lasts to our pick (whatever pick that may end u) and Waldhuter lasts till our second and can take Tipungwuti and Morris later. Can see at least 3 of them being apart of the 22 next year. Trade out Graham and gain Maric. Delist Farmer, Nason, Webberley, Taylor.

I agree with most of that. Although we will have to disagree on the Melbourne win though. I don't think we can take much from that as Melbourne are coachless and clearly in disarray. Beating them earlier in the year would have made a much bigger statement. Having said that I did enjoy the win and cannot help but barrack for our team on gameday.

To be honest the root of my frustration is not actually winning these late games per se. It is more that we have left it to the end of the season, once we were out of finals contention TO PLAY OUR BEST TEAM!! FFS!!!

If we had battled all season, with winning as our number one priority (as we are now) these late wins would be a bit easier to stomach.

I'm not trying to open another can of worms here but what was with this half developing/half trying to win bullshit earlier in the season which cost us critical games?? The most glaring example being dropping Tuck or playing him as sub during the most important part if the season!! I have absolutely no doubt that cost us games and a real shot at finals.

So sorry if I'm supposed to get excited by having our best team out on the park now beating up on lowly/demoralized teams once the season is over. A little bit of too little, to late... Another wasted year.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

I agree with most of that. Although we will have to disagree on the Melbourne win though. I don't think we can take much from that as Melbourne are coachless and clearly in disarray. Beating them earlier in the year would have made a much bigger statement. Having said that I did enjoy the win and cannot help but barrack for our team on gameday.

To be honest the root of my frustration is not actually winning these late games per se. It is more that we have left it to the end of the season, once we were out of finals contention TO PLAY OUR BEST TEAM!! FFS!!!

If we had battled all season, with winning as our number one priority (as we are now) these late wins would be a bit easier to stomach.

I'm not trying to open another can of worms here but what was with this half developing/half trying to win bullshit earlier in the season which cost us critical games?? The most glaring example being dropping Tuck or playing him as sub during the most important part if the season!! I have absolutely no doubt that cost us games and a real shot at finals.

So sorry if I'm supposed to get excited by having our best team out on the park now beating up on lowly/demoralized teams once the season is over. A little bit of too little, to late... Another wasted year.

I don't think this year is a waste at all. Win are completely meaningless to win apart from singing the song.

Surely you don't think the players are that one dimensional to only think they are succeeding by getting over the line against a particular side in a specific time!!

Grimes has proven himself even more, Rance has improved again, Lids has got more confidence about himself and how he fits into the picture, Batchelor has has effectively shown he is good enough, Martin has taken another threat and given us a forward threat, Cotch has really stepped up as a consistent general and leader with inspiring moments as he gets physically better. Conca has shown something, Helbig has shown a bit, Nahas has improved with his run, Foley is finding his old form, Vickery has stepped up and shown he can be a real Forward/Ruck that can cause oppositions problems, and no doubt I have forgot other things.


Fair dinkum, I do not see how this year could be anything but successful. If we get pick 10 and make the best of it in the draft , short of winning a premiership, we have had a bloody good year!!

 

[Jimmy6019]

^^^
Missing finals and being humiliated by the two bottom teams is a success and a bloody good year? Christ I would hate to know your version if a bad year!!!

Wasn't the main point of the post anyway..

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

^^^
Missing finals and being humiliated by the two bottom teams is a success and a bloody good year? Christ I would hate to know your version if a bad year!!!

Wasn't the main point of the post anyway..

How were we humiliated by the bottom two teams??? You must have had it easy if that bothers you!!

Only negative is we, and 16 other teams are not the premiership holders. The expectations were low so I can live with that. We are developing closer to the goal with our youth so all is well!!

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Re: drafting

Christ I would hate to know your version if a bad year!!!

Port Adelaide board>>>>>>>>

 

[Jimmy6019]

Port Adelaide board>>>>>>>>

Haha fair point!

 

[delediofan3]

Re: drafting

Is there any news about Kavanagh during his TAC Cup games?? I wouldn't mind Kavanagh, is highly rated and due to injuries could slide down to us. I'd like to do what Brisbane did last year and upgrade their first rounder with GC to get whatshisname.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Re: drafting

How were we humiliated by the bottom two teams??? You must have had it easy if that bothers you!!

Only negative is we, and 16 other teams are not the premiership holders. The expectations were low so I can live with that. We are developing closer to the goal with our youth so all is well!!

...Agree... ...

 

[Toadvine]

Re: drafting

Is there any news about Kavanagh during his TAC Cup games?? I wouldn't mind Kavanagh, is highly rated and due to injuries could slide down to us. I'd like to do what Brisbane did last year and upgrade their first rounder with GC to get whatshisname.

I saw Kav play today but he got a corkie in the 2nd quarter and didn't play after half time. His team was being well beaten so his impact was minimal.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

How did Hoskin Elliot go Toadvine?

 

[_RT_]

Re: drafting

How did Hoskin Elliot go Toadvine?

He has an slight injury at the moment and I believe either didn't play or was used sparingly.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Thanks RT

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Re: drafting

People said the same thing 08, 09, 10, etc.

It has been proven time and time again late season wins for us that hurt draft position do nothing in regards to momentum heading into next season. Sadly, that is just how the system works. We've never taken full advantage of the system. I wouldn't be upset if we lost by 1 point this week if it means pick 10 not 14 or 16. Could mean the difference between who we want around that mark or who we will have to settle for depending on who teams before us choose.

I'd seriously argue that a lot of things are quite different to how they were 5-10 years ago at the club. I'd say we have taken full advantage of the draft at times in the past, it just didn't get us anywhere, since we weren't really equipped to do it properly. Eg. player selection, development, etc.

No one remembers these wins in a few weeks anyways. Similarly, no one remembers the losses a few weeks. We're not going to be sitting here in the preseason and next year reminiscing about our grinding win against a coachless Adelaide are we?

Last time I checked, us supporters have very little input in to the on ground success of the team (moneys contributed aside). So what we remember or reminisce over has pretty much no relevance. On the other hand, it can be very easily underestimated from the outside what any win means to any sporting team

Any supporter who continues to dwell over draft blunders as being responsible for our downfalls over the years, is no different to Richard Tambling who many claim is haunted by the Buddy situation. They need to get over it!

To be honest, if we took Reece Conca out of the picture right now, I'd say we'd be in no real worse position than we are in. We've found Batchelor and Grimes, both from moderate draft picks. Rance has become our saviour down back according to most, yet even he was taken at, you guessed it, pick 18. Through necessity, we may even have found another quality mid from elsewhere (Contin, VFL, etc) in place of Conca. After the first couple of years of a rebuild, where you finish at the bottom simply because you are crap, the position in draft should not mean that much. If it does, then you're just not doing it right IMO

 

[tigs2010]

Re: drafting

Brad McKenzie is my guess. Fits the profile we seem to target.

Picks like Batchelor/Grimes etc give me great confidence we will get a good player even if we come 9th this year. Odds are pick 10 or 18 FJ will take a little gem we wouldn't have predicted and it will be the same player no matter what pick it is.

So carn tiges this week