Mega Thread Draft Talk Part 1

[Mr Magic]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Agree entirely clawsy.

I agree as well and best available does not necessarily mean mids or KPF or KPD.

The emphasis should be on quality even if it is a back pocket or forward pocket, half forward or half back

 

[Greggy]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

A few people have mentioned Hoskin-Elliot, but Knightmare has him going at #7 (although range 4 - 15). Perhaps we need to start some rumours, such as he has groin problems (ala Heppell), and that he got into a fight at a bar/nightclub (ala Darling).

I'm his best mate and he told me if he goes to GWS he'll come back to Victoria at the first chance.

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

They cant play for 12 months..... and if after that they are good enough then they play. If they continue to perform they play.

I would only trade Jack if the deal leant massively our way which I think we could be in a position to do with GWS. For them Jack represents exactly want we want and I reckon they would pay overs for him especially with the seventeen year olds that they cant touch anyway (wrong use of words).


Would you do it for 3 Seventeen year olds that are considered future top 10 picks?

Even if they gave us 4 17yo's we wouldn't replace him as the best 4 are mids (O'Meara, Yarran, Garlett) and a ruckman (Grundy). Then we have an amazing midfield with no forward to finish the work.

 

[rammbo]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Even if they gave us 4 17yo's we wouldn't replace him as the best 4 are mids (O'Meara, Yarran, Garlett) and a ruckman (Grundy). Then we have an amazing midfield with no forward to finish the work.

if sheeds offered that id say it would b deal done.

 

[Damo80]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

I'm his best mate and he told me if he goes to GWS he'll come back to Victoria at the first chance.

Well, if you're his best mate, maybe you could pull some strings if it came to that

Knightmare's mock draft actually has him going to Port from memory, in amongst all those GWS picks. Not sure which would be worse!

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Even if they gave us 4 17yo's we wouldn't replace him as the best 4 are mids (O'Meara, Yarran, Garlett) and a ruckman (Grundy). Then we have an amazing midfield with no forward to finish the work.

You mean like Geelong?...... One avenue to goal is becoming redundant.

 

[Greggy]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Well, if you're his best mate, maybe you could pull some strings if it came to that

Knightmare's mock draft actually has him going to Port from memory, in amongst all those GWS picks. Not sure which would be worse!

He hates everywhere but VIC

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

You mean like Geelong?...... One avenue to goal is becoming redundant.

I'm not saying i wouldn't do it. Three of them is massive overs for 1 player. When the 3 you would receive are all top 5 in a super draft. I just don't think the club would trade Riewoldt full stop. Martin and Cotchin would be in the same boat but I can see Deledio and Foley being offered for them. Both being that little bit older than the rest and both being mids and not kpp.

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

A few people have mentioned Hoskin-Elliot, but Knightmare has him going at #7 (although range 4 - 15). Perhaps we need to start some rumours, such as he has groin problems (ala Heppell), and that he got into a fight at a bar/nightclub (ala Darling).

I heard he likes to wear ladies wigs and shit his pants on public transport. Stay away

 

[_RT_]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

They cant play for 12 months..... and if after that they are good enough then they play. If they continue to perform they play.

I would only trade Jack if the deal leant massively our way which I think we could be in a position to do with GWS. For them Jack represents exactly want we want and I reckon they would pay overs for him especially with the seventeen year olds that they cant touch anyway (wrong use of words).


Would you do it for 3 Seventeen year olds that are considered future top 10 picks?

Given the state of our list I would not be trading away a player who fills one of the key areas that needs to be filled i.e. match winning KPF. If we had a couple of them on hand then I might consider it.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Just throwing this out there...how would people feel about trading pick 12 for Colin Sylvia?

25 years old would compliement our midfield well and I think given MFC's current predicament we could get him cheap. Can be a very very good and damaging inside/outside player on his day and would add a hard edge to our midfield.

Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Foley, Sylvia, Conca

With three picks in the top 20-22 next year we are going to have another influx of strong 18 year olds. Could be the perfect time to add a 100 gamer around Deledios age bracket and another strong body.

Thoughts?

Pick 10/12 + our compensation pick might be enough to snag an elite 17 year old that would normally go top 5... Is that worth it??

I would only trade our first pick for Dangerfield, obviously we would need to through another player Adelaide's way. It wont happen....

I know I will get attacked on here but the only players I would not offer for trade would be Cotchin and Martin. The rest including Jack Riewoldt would be up for trade for the right price.
Jack for 2 17 year olds??? I would take that.

NO and NO. Cmon amcre, Sylvia must look pretty good in a midfield of Moloney, Trengove, Scully, Gysberts, McKenzie, etc too right?

without a doubt our first two picks has to be used in the nd on the very best available. sheesh we all know we have holes in the list everywhere. our first tweo picks should be inside 30 and we have all heard after 30 it drops away. dont know if this is true as personally i see it going much deeper.

make no mistake we are in rebuild mode and imo are yet to bottom out.

we need to take 5 kids in the nd. we should turn over at least 3 rookies so thats another 3 kids. we should take if available a mature up to standard afl player in the psd. i would then be targeting 3 players from the minor leagues to replace long term proven duds with very late nd picks. of course if we trade this will change.

Given the state of our list I would not be trading away a player who fills one of the key areas that needs to be filled i.e. match winning KPF. If we had a couple of them on hand then I might consider it.

YES and YES.

Do we see a pattern here?


Guys, what is the obsession with trading players?! CULTURE!

FFS if you finally unearth a good player or two, you flipping keep em. I wouldn't trade Riewoldt or Deledio for ten 17yo potential top 10s. If Jack or Lids don't ever play in a GF, so be it. As long as when they retire, the RFC is a respected club with a solid base of years performing as a regular finalist, due to their efforts. I don't wish to have to do this kind of rebuild again for a very, very long time. Bottom out now and then maybe, but not a total clean of house.

Have we not learnt from the past about trading in players from elsewhere? Can't we just build our own damn identity and environment? We barely have a base. We are not in a position to top up or strengthen what we have. We are not Sydney or Hawthorn. Wait five years and maybe the landscape will have changed.

Just keep taking as many of the best players in the draft as possible, and give ourselves a chance of unearthing a decent rookie here and there. Tis all I ask.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Jack for 2 17 year olds??? I would take that.

nut by name...

Pretty keen to use our first pick on another mid. This draft is light on for talls of note so I would expect GWS to take the best ones before 12. I don't know much about Talia but have read he isn't the best kick and doesn't offer great rebound. If he was a Hurley type you'd jump but otherwise wouldn't be surprised if the club backs in Astbury, Grimes and Rance and holds onto McGuane and Post for backup.

While many bemoan our lack of a ruckman and our apparent lack of tall backs I think it's the lack of midfield depth which is most hurting us.

Our midfield keepers going into next year are:

Cotchin - inside attacking
Martin - inside attacking
Foley - inside attacking
Conca - outside

Supporting these guys are:

Jackson - too slow and lumbering
Edwards - kicking and decision making is truly suspect
Grigg - kicking, decision making under pressure, consistency, heart???

This is where we need to improve to give our forwards and our backs the best chance of competing.

Well said, but I would add Lids to our midfield keepers. He simply has to play there.

I think pick 10/12 and compo for a 17yo won't work for 2 reasons. We are giving up 2 to get 1 which i dont think we can afford as we need depth. 2nd of all GWS would be keen on the compo pick but doubt they want another pick this year. They'd prefer a player.

can't see us wanting to give up first rounder for Dangerfield unless we got another one as well. Nor can i see Adelaide giving him up.

I think Jack has to be on the untouchables list because otherwise we need to find another gun forward which isn't the easiest thing to do. We have done very well to get him and giving him up would be silly.

Another spot-on post.

some people suggesting giving up jack ............. your off your tree

I would happily give up our first pick for the following players,and they are all worthy of a 1st rounder.All these players are young with 10 years football ahead of them & unlike 'new' kids have shown they will be upto afl standard. Too Many people rate draft picks way too highly & nothing wrong with trading them to get the player required provided they fall into the age bracket that we are building on.

Jackson Trengove
Mitch Clarke
Daniel Talia
Patrick Dangerfield

Also wouldnt be against offering up Nathan Foley to GWS for O'Meara either. Nahas is another that may be tempting for GWS

Also good.

Would you do it for 3 Seventeen year olds that are considered future top 10 picks?

Trade Jack and we might as well pack it in.

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Given the state of our list I would not be trading away a player who fills one of the key areas that needs to be filled i.e. match winning KPF. If we had a couple of them on hand then I might consider it.

Jacks a great player but he is not worth 2 top 5 picks...

Personally I see Jack as a player that a good defence will always be able to hold....unless we can spread the load with another 1-2 quality forwards.

I understand the Jack love... and his value is at a premium right now.

If I put the question like this.... whats worth more Cotchin/Martin combo versus Jack?

All depends on how good the 17 year olds but I'm sure GWS would throw 2 picks for Jack considering they have to trade those 17 year olds anyway.

So my rational is that this is a unique situation where we could get way more for what Jack is actually worth. Weighing up the loss of Jack would be a huge issue... but if puts us closer to a flag then???

Personally I reckon Adelaide have already done a deal with GWS for the first pick for a 17 your old for Taylor Walker... Hence the Davis deal announced today.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Mitchell Grigg sounds like the one we want...

Dominating SANFL atm:

30 touches, 5 clearances and 8 tackles on the weekend at a DE of 90%.

I think he is playing himself out of our reach though...sounds like Martin mark II

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Trade Jack and we might as well pack it in.

Richo was and always will be twice the player Jack is... yet he never dragged us over the line due mainly from a decade of sub par midfields...

If we were snag 2 17 year olds... plus utilize our picks next season our second rebuild would have a huge boost.
Griffith suddenly gets a FF slot and who knows what could happen.

To win flags you have to brave.... maybe not this brave but I would love the club to get on the front foot.

 

[Rustof]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Richo was and always will be twice the player Jack is... yet he never dragged us over the line due mainly from a decade of sub par midfields...

If we were snag 2 17 year olds... plus utilize our picks next season our second rebuild would have a huge boost.
Griffith suddenly gets a FF slot and who knows what could happen.

To win flags you have to brave.... maybe not this brave but I would love the club to get on the front foot.

Josh Toy was a supposed top 5 pick before being an under age pick. He's hardly performed to that level. Who says these two 17 yr olds will be guns?

 

[Damo80]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

If we were snag 2 17 year olds...

You're not getting much support nut. I think a big part of the counter-argument is that if you start shopping your "untouchables" around, it has a massively damaging impact on the list. You're basically treating them like a sheer commodity, but then come match day you expect them to give their heart and soul for the footy club. You can't have it both ways.

A couple of other things - GWS don't have to trade on any or all of the picks this year (you stated they can't hold onto them. They can, for at least another 12 months).

Plus, I get the impression there's a lot of clubs who might be keen to have a crack at the 17 year olds this year. Chances are, Jack Riewoldt may not be twice as good a deal as what anyone else offers, so I think you're deluded if you reckon Jack would get 2 picks... he may not even get us first crack.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Jacks a great player but he is not worth 2 top 5 picks...

Personally I see Jack as a player that a good defence will always be able to hold....unless we can spread the load with another 1-2 quality forwards.

I understand the Jack love... and his value is at a premium right now.

If I put the question like this.... whats worth more Cotchin/Martin combo versus Jack?

All depends on how good the 17 year olds but I'm sure GWS would throw 2 picks for Jack considering they have to trade those 17 year olds anyway.

So my rational is that this is a unique situation where we could get way more for what Jack is actually worth. Weighing up the loss of Jack would be a huge issue... but if puts us closer to a flag then???

Personally I reckon Adelaide have already done a deal with GWS for the first pick for a 17 your old for Taylor Walker... Hence the Davis deal announced today.

You actually make a lot of sense!! Good argument!

One problem!!

In the mini draft there are no Cotches and Martins and cannot be because they do not have the height.

I prefer JR to say because he is important to structure development and belief. So if he was traded for mine his minimum price would be greater than Lids and equivalent to 3 mini draft picks plus a draft pick!!! So it probably woldn't happen although I am sure GWS would love to get him!!!!

 

[nick1408]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

I'm usually against drafting the best available and rather fall into the draft for needs category. This year though, I think we should just draft the best possible as it really doesn't matter too much as the best possible will be able to slip into the side anyway.

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

You're not getting much support nut. I think a big part of the counter-argument is that if you start shopping your "untouchables" around, it has a massively damaging impact on the list. You're basically treating them like a sheer commodity, but then come match day you expect them to give their heart and soul for the footy club. You can't have it both ways.

Thats why I said weighing up the loss would be a huge issue.. everyone loves a key forward

A couple of other things - GWS don't have to trade on any or all of the picks this year (you stated they can't hold onto them. They can, for at least another 12 months).

I'm talking about the 17 year old mini draft

Plus, I get the impression there's a lot of clubs who might be keen to have a crack at the 17 year olds this year. Chances are, Jack Riewoldt may not be twice as good a deal as what anyone else offers, so I think you're deluded if you reckon Jack would get 2 picks... he may not even get us first crack.

Coleman medalist .... best and fairest.... loves the camera... GWS would love to have him.

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

You actually make a lot of sense!! Good argument!

One problem!!

In the mini draft there are no Cotches and Martins and cannot be because they do not have the height.

I prefer JR to say because he is important to structure development and belief. So if he was traded for mine his minimum price would be greater than Lids and equivalent to 3 mini draft picks plus a draft pick!!! So it probably woldn't happen although I am sure GWS would love to get him!!!!

I'm throwing this scenario out there because potentially we would be trading for the rights for first dibs on the best 17 year olds. We may end up with a better forward than Jack...

Remember these players are not on GWS list.... they cant list these 17 year olds so they have nothing to loose by offering 2 or 3 picks for Jack. This is why we could potentially get way over what Jack is "really" worth.

The risks are ..

Backlash from supporters
Recruiters stuffing the picks up

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

I'm throwing this scenario out there because potentially we would be trading for the rights for first dibs on the best 17 year olds. We may end up with a better forward than Jack...

Remember these players are not on GWS list.... they cant list these 17 year olds so they have nothing to loose by offering 2 or 3 picks for Jack. This is why we could potentially get way over what Jack is "really" worth.

The risks are ..

Backlash from supporters
Recruiters stuffing the picks up

The thing is, if you gave JR up for 3 minidraft picks and whatever, the initial belief will drop, as the lack of a positive goal threat and forward target of note may prove demoralising although Griff and Vick may fill in. Bit like Melbourne who by the sound of things should of traded away Sylvia, Green etc.. from the reverberations of player discontent as they have different time horizons to the general playing group.

With this in mind if we did trade JR away, we , in all seriousness would have to trade away Lids, Foley, Newman, Jackson etc.. in the next few years otherwise the restructure of the playing list regarding the group development profile would be pointless and could become dysfunctional like Melbourne. If we did this the youngster would understand we are a little way off without a forward focus except Griff and Vickery, but with the new abundance of youth they would be prepare to wear it for a few years I would expect as the expectations of rapid list improvement in 3-4 years would, with good reason be raised.

The problem though would be, if we were to trade Lids and Foley etc.. after JR , we might not get value as it would be pressured like a firesale in a buyers market. So I thinking unless the rewards are exceptional trading JR away would be highly risky IMO but I see your point. I think in time JR will be the best 3rd forward in the game . Doesn't mean he won't kick 100 goals, but I do not see him as a long term FF or CHF! For example our 3rd forward in JR could be our best forward but structurally he plays as a roaming 3rd tall

The only way you could do it when I think about it is trade Lids and others etc.. this year to GWS for mini draft picks plus high draft pick. Only next year trade JR if suitable for another highest mini draft pick plus 2012 draft picks to GWS because only GWS has the capacity to offer what the players are worth.

Having said this , unless something exceptional is offered to JR and RFC I can't see GWS getting JR

 

[Jimmy6019]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

I'm throwing this scenario out there because potentially we would be trading for the rights for first dibs on the best 17 year olds. We may end up with a better forward than Jack...

Remember these players are not on GWS list.... they cant list these 17 year olds so they have nothing to loose by offering 2 or 3 picks for Jack. This is why we could potentially get way over what Jack is "really" worth.

The risks are ..

Backlash from supporters
Recruiters stuffing the picks up

Agree with your points 100% Nut. Bang on with the Richo camparison also. This is a unique situation and we would be negligent not to see what would be on offer for Jack from GWS. I have no doubt they would be prepared to pay a massive premium and offer two of the best 17 year olds for a ready made marquee player.

The addition of two ELITE midfielders would turn our 'hopefully there abouts' potential list into a feared future Premiership contender! A midfield that good would allow anyone at full forward kick a bag week in-week out. For christ sake, look at Geelong they pulled their FF out of the VFL and look how they are going compared to us???

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

The thing is, if you gave JR up for 3 minidraft picks and whatever, the initial belief will drop, as the lack of a positive goal threat and forward target of note may prove demoralising although Griff and Vick may fill in. Bit like Melbourne who by the sound of things should of traded away Sylvia, Green etc.. from the reverberations of player discontent as they have different time horizons to the general playing group.

With this in mind if we did trade JR away, we , in all seriousness would have to trade away Lids, Foley, Newman, Jackson etc.. in the next few years otherwise the restructure of the playing list regarding the group development profile would be pointless and could become dysfunctional like Melbourne. If we did this the youngster would understand we are a little way off without a forward focus except Griff and Vickery, but with the new abundance of youth they would be prepare to wear it for a few years I would expect as the expectations of rapid list improvement in 3-4 years would, with good reason be raised.

The problem though would be, if we were to trade Lids and Foley etc.. after JR , we might not get value as it would be pressured like a firesale in a buyers market. So I thinking unless the rewards are exceptional trading JR away would be highly risky IMO but I see your point. I think in time JR will be the best 3rd forward in the game . Doesn't mean he won't kick 100 goals, but I do not see him as a long term FF or CHF! For example our 3rd forward in JR could be our best forward but structurally he plays as a roaming 3rd tall

The only way you could do it when I think about it is trade Lids and others etc.. this year to GWS for mini draft picks plus high draft pick. Only next year trade JR if suitable for another highest mini draft pick plus 2012 draft picks to GWS because only GWS has the capacity to offer what the players are worth.

Having said this , unless something exceptional is offered to JR and RFC I can't see GWS getting JR

The thing you have to remember is that GWS is offering something they will never get so they are more likely to give up more for a player like JR. This is why I am bringing it up now. No way in the world would you trade a player like Jack in a normal trading senario.

It all depends how much talent there is available i the 17 year old compensation draft.
The backlash would be huge... but I'm positive but I got over the Ottens trade... Saints Hall and Plugger... Carlton Fev....

By the time to 17 years olds hit 20/21 we would have a stronger leadership group then we presently have now... So basically we take a huge step back so we can move forward in "hopefully" a much stronger position.

The other thing people are forgetting is the sides we are competiting against for our next flag are not Geelong, Collingwood, Cartlon, WC etc.... It's the two new side. How are possibly going to compete with these sides in the future when we cant even beat them now??

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Agree with your points 100% Nut. Bang on with the Richo camparison also. This is a unique situation and we would be negligent not to see what would be on offer for Jack from GWS. I have no doubt they would be prepared to pay a massive premium and offer two of the best 17 year olds for a ready made marquee player.

The addition of two ELITE midfielders would turn our 'hopefully there abouts' potential list into a feared future Premiership contender! A midfield that good would allow anyone at full forward kick a bag week in-week out. For christ sake, look at Geelong they pulled their FF out of the VFL and look how they are going compared to us???

Bounty for these two could not be sneezed at IMO.

Fpr example if Lids went to GWS this year top 5 draft pick plus Omeara typ mini draft pick and if GWS want more throw in aother player(with respect).

Regarding JR, if he was traded to GWS, and from a market /hope perspective they would be jizzing and Sheedy would know it with a compatible JR Patton combo you would e looking at the Whitfield pick plus mini draft in 2012 pick plus extras.

I cannot see it happening but because the juices would flow for GWS if it did, eg. Patton CHF, ex-League FF Folau and JR kicking 70+ as 3rd tall they might bite but RFC and JR would have to be compensated big time.

GWS have the money , they already have a back in Davis if they sow up a credible forward line which is the hardest thing in the caper, because as good as Whitfield might be those players can be replaced, GWS would have the basis to sell a story to western Sydney about prospects of victorious success going forward as Lids and JR are young particularly JR.

Interesting, you never know but the bounty to JR and RFC would have to be great!!

The thing with JR is he is literally gold.It is easier to find CHF an FF of quality than players like JR who really can play both and small so JR is a must for a future premiership forward line. Without overhyping this the value of JR and what he brings to a premiership team cannot be underestimated and he is far more valuable than an Ottens or Fev or even Franklin.

GWS would know if they had JR , Patton and another handy forward they can virtually concentrate on their mids and backline going forward to get a premiership team.

This is a bit like Ottens in 2001 when we might have traded him potentially for Judd and Hodge as Ottens had a ticket to the moon that year!