Mega Thread Draft Talk Part 1

[Rustof]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Talent is only half the battle, development is just as important.

Look at Collingwood, how many rookies and late draft picks have been developed into solid players in their respective positions.

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

So Hardwick plays guys out of position, "rests" certain key players and makes all sorts of odd moves. The players on the field, are awake to this, they're not stupid, they can clearly see their match committee is trying to lose the match. Anyway, turns out they play well, and at 3 quarter time are up by two goals against the Swans.

What do you do? Tell them to lose?
Rubbish.

Of the recent premiership teams, Cats, Pies, Hawks, Swans, Eagles, Port Adelaide, how many of them tanked? Did any of them have a number 1 pick in fact?

Go out and try and win every game, how about some respect for the jumper, the club, the pride and the fans. That's how a great club is formed.

Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast. All tanked and took priorities. Collingwood bloody did it two years after playing in successive grand finals. Happened to pick up 2 of there best players in the next premiership. Hawthorn tanked and took Roughead, Franklin and then 2005 they stuffed it with Ellis and Dowler but still tanked. West Coast were on the bottom for years before they won their premiership. Chris Judd was a priority pick. Gardiner was a number 1 pick. West Coast tanked last year.

Carlton are on the verge of going deep in finals. Don't tell me they didn't tank. We have been playing for the pride of the jumper. We would have to be the only team in a position to get a priority that has chosen to win instead of experimenting and getting the extra picks. Geelong didn't tank because they haven't been in a position to. Thats 4 of the current top 5 that tanked and the only one that hasn't was never in a position as they always had more than 4 wins early in the season.

I'm not saying go out of our way to do it from the get go but last year when we were 0-9 and worst team in history at that stage winning a few meaningless games cost us a pick (Jack Darling) and covered over how bad we really are. This year it appears we have gone backwards based on our win-loss record but fact is we beat up on injury depleted teams last year to get our wins and this year we haven't had that luxury.

 

[deled3]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

So Hardwick plays guys out of position, "rests" certain key players and makes all sorts of odd moves. The players on the field, are awake to this, they're not stupid, they can clearly see their match committee is trying to lose the match. Anyway, turns out they play well, and at 3 quarter time are up by two goals against the Swans.

What do you do? Tell them to lose?
Rubbish.

Of the recent premiership teams, Cats, Pies, Hawks, Swans, Eagles, Port Adelaide, how many of them tanked? Did any of them have a number 1 pick in fact?

Go out and try and win every game, how about some respect for the jumper, the club, the pride and the fans. That's how a great club is formed.

Too bloody right.

West Coast didn't tank last year - they were shithouse. They picked up Gaff and Darling - who will be guns, but don't get confused that them 'tanking' last year produced the form they have this year.

If anything their rise to where they are now shows how much it is about what is going on off field.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Sam Kerridge? Haven't heard of him but he sounds like a fantastic prospect, seems like a Deledio type player with versatility to go forward and throught the guts, got good size for a mid which we reaally lack

 

[Jimmy6019]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Geelong has done exceptionally well from the Father Son rule however... Scarlett, Garry Ablett Jr, Nathan Ablett, Tom Hawkins

 

[Jimmy6019]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

So Hardwick plays guys out of position, "rests" certain key players and makes all sorts of odd moves. The players on the field, are awake to this, they're not stupid, they can clearly see their match committee is trying to lose the match. Anyway, turns out they play well, and at 3 quarter time are up by two goals against the Swans.

What do you do? Tell them to lose?
Rubbish.

Of the recent premiership teams, Cats, Pies, Hawks, Swans, Eagles, Port Adelaide, how many of them tanked? Did any of them have a number 1 pick in fact?

Go out and try and win every game, how about some respect for the jumper, the club, the pride and the fans. That's how a great club is formed.

Not at all!!! When the season is well and truly shot... as it is now, you start to blood the KIDS for future development and experience and this will most likely cost the club a few games and hence we pick up some good draft picks/draft advantages at the end of the year. All teams who have been in our position know this except Richmond!!!

We do the OPPOSITE. We play the kids at the start of the season... They get battered and tired and we start to lose a string of games. Once the season is well and truly shot we THEN start putting our best team on the field to pick up a few cheap wins at the end of the season, against poor teams that have put the cue in the rack. Thus cheating us come draft time once again!! The Richmond way....

But you right... lets win worthless games against Adelaide and Melbourne (once they are out of finals contention) and get pick 14 instead of pick 10, becasue we will all be remembering those victories in a few years time...

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Too bloody right.

West Coast didn't tank last year - they were shithouse. They picked up Gaff and Darling - who will be guns, but don't get confused that them 'tanking' last year produced the form they have this year.

If anything their rise to where they are now shows how much it is about what is going on off field.

Actually we now know they did tank as a fact....Woosha even admitted it! He just renamed it 'experimenting'!! That is how it has always been swept under the carpet by coaches. They do have a valid justification when finals are done to 'experiment' with players in different positions.

I think some coaches hate tp lose though and will always coach to win the game in the end, others treat the last half of the season like NAB cup games and are looking forward to the priority pick.

 

[santa claws]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Geelong has done exceptionally well from the Father Son rule however... Scarlett, Garry Ablett Jr, Nathan Ablett, Tom Hawkins

they came of very good finals performances in 04 05 but somehow managed to finish 10th in 06 that snared them selwood.
where they have done well is trade players out for reasonable draft picks which they continue to use well.

they have traded into an awful lot of picks since 01.

 

[santa claws]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

If we in all honesty go out there and win a meaningless game and lose 2 positions in the draft which could be the difference between a gun and an average player we may as well pack it in. We do that every year win 1 more game than we can to qualify for priority picks.

2009: Could have had Martin, Griffiths, Fyfe but we just didn't quite qualify.
2010: Could have had Conca, Batchelor and Heppell but just didn't quite qualify again.
2011: Could have had pick 4 and 10 but nope we are happy with being near the bottom with 1 pick LOL

not sure how you come up with pick 4 and 10 for 2011. there are no 1st rnd ps picks in the first round.

because of the gc gws situation we would qualify for a second rnd ps pick only regardless of what happened the yr before, this applied to 2010 as well.

your right about 2009 martin and ps pick 18 bastinac, 2nd rnd pick 20 on who you like, carlisle/bartlett.

2010 would have ended up if we qualified, 1st rnd nd pick 4, ps pick 26, 2nd rnd pick 31, and i think if we used our cs pick for tambling no 28. so we could have gone 4 gaff, 26 darling, 28 lycett, and 31 batchelor.
i still firmly believe batchelor would have slipped to at least our 3rd rnd pick at 47.

2011 well we won too many early so the debate is irrelevant.but we should be safeguarding against losing pick 8.

 

[theflea]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Spot on. As I said, I really like Conca as a prospect also, but at the end of the day he wasn't a top 6 prospect and as you rightly point out, if we were smarter we could have had both Conca and Heppel in the first round. Anyway I really hope we give ourselves the best possible advantage going into the draft/tade week ths year and pray FJ and co can nail it.

f*** me this is rubbish. just let me know what the 2016,17,18 melbourne cup winners are. you guys must have the sports alminac from back to the future cos you are so definitive that he isnt a top 6 player. why dont we trade him now. he 1 year into a career for f*** sake. he has shown plenty in his first year esp that attack on the footy that hit stokes. best attack on the footy by any players ive seen this year.

end rant!

 

[Jimmy6019]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

f*** me this is rubbish. just let me know what the 2016,17,18 melbourne cup winners are. you guys must have the sports alminac from back to the future cos you are so definitive that he isnt a top 6 player. why dont we trade him now. he 1 year into a career for f*** sake. he has shown plenty in his first year esp that attack on the footy that hit stokes. best attack on the footy by any players ive seen this year.

end rant!

Great rant Flea! Maybe you should take a cold shower before you read this!!!

Are you honestly saying these is no possibility we could have nailed both in the 2010 draft?

The point is, we overlooked an extremely highly rated juniour that was LUCKY to slip to pick 6, let alone pick 8... and chose a player that was not regarded a top 20 propect by ANYONE in the football recruiting world or media, except Francis Jackson!!!!

I'm not saying Conca won't be a gun, far from it!!! I'm saying in 2010 we were widely regarded as a worse team than Fitzroy in its death throes, and if anyone deserved a priority pick it was us! We could have selected the best availiable HEPPEL and nailed Conca with our priority pick (as he was on no one elses radar). A perfect example how winning pointless meaningless games can be detrmental to an effective rebuild and long term success!

Too much to comprehend?

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

The point is, we overlooked an extremely highly rated juniour that was LUCKY to slip to pick 6, let alone pick 8... and chose a player that was not regarded a top 20 propect by ANYONE in the football recruiting world or media, except Francis Jackson!!!!

Except that's horseshit.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

your right about 2009 martin and ps pick 18 bastinac, 2nd rnd pick 20 on who you like, carlisle/bartlett.

It would have been Tapscott and Griff.

2010 would have ended up if we qualified, 1st rnd nd pick 4, ps pick 26, 2nd rnd pick 31, and i think if we used our cs pick for tambling no 28. so we could have gone 4 gaff, 26 darling, 28 lycett, and 31 batchelor.
i still firmly believe batchelor would have slipped to at least our 3rd rnd pick at 47.

Except we would still have chosen Conca at 4, and if we took Darling West Coast would have taken Lycett at 27. Collingwood would have taken Batchelor at 45 or 46.

2011 well we won too many early so the debate is irrelevant.but we should be safeguarding against losing pick 8.

Brisbane will need to win three more games for us to get pick 8. It's theirs to lose, not ours.

 

[Jimmy6019]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Except that's horseshit.

Maybe... Maybe not... worst case scenario I guess we would have just had to settle with Heppel and Darling for our first round. Missing the point???


"Except we would still have chosen Conca at 4 (over Gaff)" And you know that how??? Sounds like horshit to me!!!

 

[Rustof]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Port, Hawks, Sydney and Freo were very interested in Conca and in his interviews regarding getting drafted he said he was expecting one of them to take him with their first pick which was around 16-20. Just because the media didn't hype him as a top 20 pick doesn't mean he wasn't worth it.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: drafting

No Jimmy, as subtly as you have sledgehammered home your point, I get it. I guess I too am in the minority who rate Conca extremely highly. I'm not disappointed we didn't get Heppell.

I know we would have chosen Conca at 4 because the club said so.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Port, Hawks, Sydney and Freo were very interested in Conca and in his interviews regarding getting drafted he said he was expecting one of them to take him with their first pick which was around 16-20. Just because the media didn't hype him as a top 20 pick doesn't mean he wasn't worth it.

I am Confused about why we took Conca but we will all have to wait at see how it unfolds.

Where I think we erred is by not swapping first round picks to say 12 - 16 and upgrading somewhere else if we had our heart set on him anyway.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Agree I am very happy with Conca.

My only gripe is we could have downgraded our pick for a good player and still landed him.

 

[_RT_]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Has anyone considered that maybe we tried to downgrade our pick to a lower pick, but weren't able to do it because what we wanted in return just wasn't worth giving up just for pick 6?

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

not sure how you come up with pick 4 and 10 for 2011. there are no 1st rnd ps picks in the first round.

because of the gc gws situation we would qualify for a second rnd ps pick only regardless of what happened the yr before, this applied to 2010 as well.

your right about 2009 martin and ps pick 18 bastinac, 2nd rnd pick 20 on who you like, carlisle/bartlett.

2010 would have ended up if we qualified, 1st rnd nd pick 4, ps pick 26, 2nd rnd pick 31, and i think if we used our cs pick for tambling no 28. so we could have gone 4 gaff, 26 darling, 28 lycett, and 31 batchelor.
i still firmly believe batchelor would have slipped to at least our 3rd rnd pick at 47.

2011 well we won too many early so the debate is irrelevant.but we should be safeguarding against losing pick 8.

Sorry mate didnt realise no early priorities. THought even if we finished 3rd last with 4 or less wins we would get 4 and 10.

Even Conca, Darling, Batchelor last year would have been good.

THe club would have taken Conca at 4. FACT. They have said it. Cant be bothered finding where.

Second of all Conca has gone off the boil lately as he has had no pre season.

Start of year rankings for the draftees had a top 6 in no particular order of Swallow, Conca, Heppell, Darling, Batchelor and one other ive forgotten (maybe Gaff??)

So considering we had pick 6 and nailed 2 of the best 6 players based on their early season output before all got tired. Any anti-Conca people who say it's only the first season well all pro-Conca people will agree and Conca may end up better than Heppell.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

We nailed the first two picks in the draft last year. Batchelor was a gem at 30...

What about this year?

I really think we should go midfielder/midfielder as the tlaent for mids runs deeper than anything else and it wouldn't hurt to bolster our midfield.

If we are able to abtain another couple of players with the talent of Conca/Batchelor, but who are both mids it will go a long way to making us a better side in the future.

Really want to see a midfielder who can win clearances, can kick, but is also a tackler. Martin, Conca, Deledio even Cotch sometimes are not really tackling much. Hopefully this changes btu I would like to see someone come in with this mentality.

 

[theflea]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Great rant Flea! Maybe you should take a cold shower before you read this!!!

Are you honestly saying these is no possibility we could have nailed both in the 2010 draft?

The point is, we overlooked an extremely highly rated juniour that was LUCKY to slip to pick 6, let alone pick 8... and chose a player that was not regarded a top 20 propect by ANYONE in the football recruiting world or media, except Francis Jackson!!!!

I'm not saying Conca won't be a gun, far from it!!! I'm saying in 2010 we were widely regarded as a worse team than Fitzroy in its death throes, and if anyone deserved a priority pick it was us! We could have selected the best availiable HEPPEL and nailed Conca with our priority pick (as he was on no one elses radar). A perfect example how winning pointless meaningless games can be detrmental to an effective rebuild and long term success!

Too much to comprehend?

jim you intitled to you op but i beg to differ. i watch all afl games and i still like conca ahead of heppell, not sure what it is but i think he is more in and under plus outside as well. time will tell, but thats my view. if he was such a stand out why didnt the clubs before us pick him either? as for conca he would not have been around at pick 27 odd as freo were very interested in him, so to say he was on no one else radar is incorrect. remember that he couldnt show his stuff at the combine bc he was injured.

comprehend????????????????? see i can use big words too!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jimmy6019]

As you say Flea, I'm entitled to my opinion, even though you may dismiss it a f*** rubbish. Your right.. I said he was not considered a top 20 pick at the time, that was incorrect as Freo MIGHT have picked him at 20!! Well pointed out.

My post was not intended to open a Heppel v Conca debate. It was simply drawing attention to the fact that we could have really benefited from a priority pick that we let slip for a few nothing wins in 2010 and that we used a top 6 draft pick on a player that was likely to slip to a later pick. Why didn't we use this 'inside' knowledge for greater advantage and trade pick 6 down to pick 12-15 for example, still pick up Conca and also gain an extra/earlier 2nd rd draft pick or trade aggressively for another top 20 pick?? Very frustrating and just another example of a long list of missed opportunities by Richmond and poor list management.

And Flea, 'Comprehend' isn't a big word...

 

[turtle27]

Re: drafting

As you say Flea, I'm entitled to my opinion, even though you may dismiss it a f*** rubbish. Your right.. I said he was not considered a top 20 pick at the time, that was incorrect as Freo MIGHT have picked him at 20!! Well pointed out.

My post was not intended to open a Heppel v Conca debate. It was simply drawing attention to the fact that we could have really benefited from a priority pick that we let slip for a few nothing wins in 2010 and that we used a top 6 draft pick on a player that was likely to slip to a later pick. Why didn't we use this 'inside' knowledge for greater advantage and trade down our pick for an extra/earlier 2nd rd draft pick or trade aggressively for another top 20 pick?? Very frustrating and just another example of a long list of missed opportunities by Richmond and poor list management.

And Flea, 'Comprehend' isn't a big word...

Did I read that correctly. In hindsight, you wanted us to have traded our first round pick for an extra 2nd round pick? Can you imagine what this place would have been like if Jackson and Dimma did that?

 

[Jimmy6019]

As in trade our early first round pick to a later first rd pick (i.e 12-15 and still get Conca) + an additional/upgraded 2nd/3rd rd pick...