Mega Thread Draft Talk Part 1

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

We won't trade Foley for a kid who can't even play next year.

Do we want to be in developing mode forever?

 

[Ramper]

Re: drafting

We won't trade Foley for a kid who can't even play next year.

Do we want to be in developing mode forever?

We need more A grade talent. The U17 player draft is one way for clubs to get a potential future A grade talent. We should give it very serious consideration.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

How much disharmony would it create saying to one of our best players and leaders..."thanks mate but you can go now".

Guys like Deledio, Martin ect will take notice..

 

[Damo80]

Re: drafting

How much disharmony would it create saying to one of our best players and leaders..."thanks mate but you can go now".

Guys like Deledio, Martin ect will take notice..

Whilst I do agree that it's a dangerous line to tread, the other side of the coin is "no risk, no reward".

BF posters can orchestrate hypothetical trades like we're trading footy cards, but the reality is different. IF we were to trade Foley, I imagine it would be a difficult decision by the club. Not sure they could do it, even if O'Meara is Judd incarnate. If Foley can recapture his pre-injury form, then I'm not sure it's worth the risk in terms of shafting a guy like Foley.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Completely agree.

Was probably BOG today. I am sure Omera will be a good player but we need Foley types and I don't think hoping to get an upgrade is a great reason to trade an already made top line mid.

 

[Calcium Man]

Re: drafting

Whilst I do agree that it's a dangerous line to tread, the other side of the coin is "no risk, no reward".

BF posters can orchestrate hypothetical trades like we're trading footy cards, but the reality is different. IF we were to trade Foley, I imagine it would be a difficult decision by the club. Not sure they could do it, even if O'Meara is Judd incarnate. If Foley can recapture his pre-injury form, then I'm not sure it's worth the risk in terms of shafting a guy like Foley.

Can't see it as really shafting Foley considering the cash he would get at GWS. The players are professionals and hard decisions have to be made for the long term good of the club to get the best A grade talent we can. You get over it when a friend leaves from work or is sacked, players are delisted every year and i'm sure some guys like Cleve Hughes are still close with some of the boys.

I would trade Foley in a heartbeat for a guy like David Swallow and the talk about Jeager is similar, yes its hard to be sure he will get there but we need to trade something of value to get value and he is probably the best we are willing to lose.

 

[tigs2010]

Re: drafting

Can't see it as really shafting Foley considering the cash he would get at GWS. The players are professionals and hard decisions have to be made for the long term good of the club to get the best A grade talent we can. You get over it when a friend leaves from work or is sacked, players are delisted every year and i'm sure some guys like Cleve Hughes are still close with some of the boys.

I would trade Foley in a heartbeat for a guy like David Swallow and the talk about Jeager is similar, yes its hard to be sure he will get there but we need to trade something of value to get value and he is probably the best we are willing to lose.

From sounds of it hes as good as Coniglio if not better. Touted number 1 or 2 this year. Is lightning quick, elite skills, good size, excellent reader of the play and will tackle and defend. Would offer up something like compo/connors/tuck or jacko for a start see what they say. Then try straight swap Foley then add sweeteners. Foley's skills have never been elite. He was good today but we are talking about a seriously good player. Although he can't play next year we can just play more of Tuck/Morton and 1st/2nd rounder this year. Who i think will be mids as well. I also think if we nail O'Meara then we could look at an x-factor type like Crozier with 1st pick. Then a mid like Waldhuter 2nd round who would help take Foley's spot next year.

2013 we could have quite a few A or B+ graders/potential A-graders: Martin, Cotch, Deledio, O'Meara, Conca in the middle. Rance/Riewoldt FB/FF and Vickery. The club also has high hopes for Astbury/Griffiths to get to that level and Crozier would go close too. Would aim for first rounder on a Garlett type next year too. I also hold out hopes for Morton if he can get his head in the right place. Very talented. The thing that stands out with this group is their elite skills. Every one of them is a good kick except maybe Rance who is an ok kick.

In regards to players thoughts on Foley leaving...it really isn't that big of a deal. Footy is a business. Its not local footy where people get pissed off about decisions made. Yer it might upset a few for a day or 2. They get over it. Anyone who wouldn't trade Foley for the number 1 pick in a draft is crazy. The draft is so analysed now that it's not a risky hit and miss anymore. Other bonus is he will learn our structures in 2012 and develop at VFL level.

 

[THE_GUN]

Re: drafting

Really hope sheedy & allen were watching their prized recruit scully tonight.

And Seen what Foley ,Tuck , Thursfield did tonight.

Foley+Thursfield = O'Meara
Tuck =Uncontracted Compo end of 2nd rounder

Surely Sheeds still has a little tingle for the tigers

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

Drafting in terms of compiling our premiership team into the future for this year I thought I would list how my living team is shaping atm the way I see it. I am effectively looking 5 years ahead so have excluded Newie and Foley may not be able to sustain it at the back end of his career. Obviously Miller and Tuck will not be there either due to age


Backline Dea Rance Grimes


HB Batcehlor ????? ?????


Centre Line Lids Cotch ?????


Half Forward Martin ????? ?????


Forward Line Reiwoldt ????? ??????


Rucks Vickery ?????? Rover Conca


Bench Grigg, Houli, Edwards, ?????


The missing ruck is ruck rover. Martin will rotate through resting forward while Grigg will hopefully be able to assist. I have Houli on the bench as I am not sure he will match up with certain stronger opposition marking small forwards so I have him rotating through the backline from the bench atm.

The point of all this is the way this draft is shaping based on the phantoms and commentary is the high quality mids everybody craves probably will be gone by the time our 1st round pick comes around. It seems to me we are better punting on a iffy mid at 2nd pick and go for a more certain high quality postional player with our first pick given we can get better mids in later drafts and trading while quality positional picks might be more difficult to come by. So I would pursue this if I was drafting in 2011 for first pick based on best available on the premise the best available mids are already taken by the time our first round pick eventuates.

With this in mind, I think our first round pick, based on whos available, could be a small forward, half back or even a full forward as we need to get a full forward of quality to migrate JR into his optimum position of third tall forward with hopefully Vickery and Griff rotating through the forward line with Griff hopefully standing up at CHF. I am thinking based on commentary the potential wingman/half forward flankers are not there from the reading

In terms of those that still havent made my team but are maybes and hopefully can get to premiership quality include:

Griff, Astbury, Post,

I have players like Farmer, Nahas, Webberly etc... as depth/backup players atm and am hoping Oreilly, PNG special etc... make the grade but its too early to tell. I am more confident from what Dea has dished up given inexperience he is more likely to make it.

With this in mind ,just highlighting for our first round pick, to me it might not be smart chasing a possible mid as opposed to a higher quality back or forward in terms of building our future premiership team. Obviously, recruiting have a better idea of what is available in the next 4-5 years going forward in draft pools and time will tell but I though I would air my perspective at this point on how I see us shaping atm

The other thing is I haven't seen all the the draftees vision so its still speculative and more based on sophisticated atuned gut feel than anything in particular I have seen except for one player that stood out in the champs that I saw!!

 

[Dusty Cotch]

Re: drafting

Can't see it as really shafting Foley considering the cash he would get at GWS. The players are professionals and hard decisions have to be made for the long term good of the club to get the best A grade talent we can. You get over it when a friend leaves from work or is sacked, players are delisted every year and i'm sure some guys like Cleve Hughes are still close with some of the boys.

I would trade Foley in a heartbeat for a guy like David Swallow and the talk about Jeager is similar, yes its hard to be sure he will get there but we need to trade something of value to get value and he is probably the best we are willing to lose.

Agree with this. Hard decisions need to be made & Foley is the the one because you need to give something good to get something good.
We need more elite young talent & ruckmen.
Jackson,McGuane & Edwards are also tradeable as their disposal is not good enough or consistent enough.
Thursfield may be another but he may be saving his spot because his last few games have been very good.Would prefer him over McGuane for sure!

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Re: drafting

Agree a player with 'good' value would need to be given up. Every other team is in the auction...put it this way, who could Collingwood offer up to trump our 'untouchable' Foley?

Laughable some of the names people are throwing up here as possible trades to get the pick one!

 

[tigs2010]

Re: drafting

Agree a player with 'good' value would need to be given up. Every other team is in the auction...put it this way, who could Collingwood offer up to trump our 'untouchable' Foley?

Laughable some of the names people are throwing up here as possible trades to get the pick one!

They certainly could trump us but Foley and compo/Morton is a pretty strong offer IMO. THey are getting a very good midfielder to protect their kids plus a compo in the 2012 draft to help space out their picks. Would throw in a 3rd tall back like Thursty/McGuane or Tuck/Jackson as well to secure this. We get in return an A-grader with elite skills.
With our draft position sliding I wouldn't mind taking Crozier if he lasts. x-factor forward. Waldhuter with our 2nd pick as a tough inside mid. Tipungwuti as a crumbing forward in 3rd round if available.
Next year pick up Garlett as a lightning quick skillful wingman

Side would look like:
B: Grimes, Rance, Dea
HB: Newman, Astbury/Post, Batchelor
C: O'Meara, Deledio, Conca
HF: Crozier, Griffiths, Garlett
F: Vickery, Riewoldt, Tipungwuti/Nahas
R: Maric, Martin, Cotchin
INT: Houli, Waldhuter, Morton
SUB: Grigg

That's 5 or 6 gun mids. A gun FF and FB as book ends. A quality small forward. An x-factor excitement machine hff. And a team with elite skills all over the park. At least 19 of them are very good to elite kicks.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

They certainly could trump us but Foley and compo/Morton is a pretty strong offer IMO. THey are getting a very good midfielder to protect their kids plus a compo in the 2012 draft to help space out their picks. Would throw in a 3rd tall back like Thursty/McGuane or Tuck/Jackson as well to secure this. We get in return an A-grader with elite skills.
With our draft position sliding I wouldn't mind taking Crozier if he lasts. x-factor forward. Waldhuter with our 2nd pick as a tough inside mid. Tipungwuti as a crumbing forward in 3rd round if available.
Next year pick up Garlett as a lightning quick skillful wingman

Side would look like:
B: Grimes, Rance, Dea
HB: Newman, Astbury/Post, Batchelor
C: O'Meara, Deledio, Conca
HF: Crozier, Griffiths, Garlett
F: Vickery, Riewoldt, Tipungwuti/Nahas
R: Maric, Martin, Cotchin
INT: Houli, Waldhuter, Morton
SUB: Grigg

That's 5 or 6 gun mids. A gun FF and FB as book ends. A quality small forward. An x-factor excitement machine hff. And a team with elite skills all over the park. At least 19 of them are very good to elite kicks.

If we got Crozier he would more likely be forward pocket IMO with the way he plays, Nahas, forward flank. Lids is not an inside mid IMO, while Omeara is probably too short for wing not that I have seen him .

Just my thoughts. I would even consider trading for a GWS pick 13 or 11 as I think there are a couple of players with apparent traits that could fall our way which could really add to our list/mix and its potency in terms of suitability and quality!!

 

[tigs2010]

Re: drafting

If we got Crozier he would more likely be forward pocket IMO with the way he plays, Nahas, forward flank. Lids is not an inside mid IMO, while Omeara is probably too short for wing not that I have seen him .

Just my thoughts. I would even consider trading for a GWS pick 13 or 11 as I think there are a couple of players with apparent traits that could fall our way which could really add to our list/mix and its potency in terms of suitability and quality!!

Crozier will play as a high half forward/wing eventually. Lids most certainly can line up in the centre. He has done so many times. And O'Meara is 182. Didn't realise there were height limitations on playing wing. Swap him with Lids if we must as he can play inside. We are probably one inside mid short so would probably take Greene over Crozier. I just want to see him take screamers though

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

Crozier will play as a high half forward/wing eventually. Lids most certainly can line up in the centre. He has done so many times. And O'Meara is 182. Didn't realise there were height limitations on playing wing. Swap him with Lids if we must as he can play inside. We are probably one inside mid short so would probably take Greene over Crozier. I just want to see him take screamers though

Lids has never proven himself in the middle!!

Don't get me wrong Lids is a star, but his strengths are speed, reach, and marking and kicking all suitable for space like half back, wing or forward roles, He simple doesn't have the exceptional burst speed off the mark over others and strength through the core as a ruck rover breaking through the packs or shrugging off would be tacklers!!

Wings musts be able to mark, eg, Hawkins Dipper etc.. Ablett snr the best, Greig. Unless exceptional finisher like Matera who could have played half forward they need to have everything including marking ability.

Green simply hasn't done enough for me!!! We have bigger issues in the forward line atm anyway not to mention the backline!

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Think we would be over selling for Omera if we gave up what has been suggested above.

1. Foley is a very good mid when up and running. Slow start to the year this year but he is coming off 2 years out of the game. Give him time and he will get back to 08 form like he did on the weekend. We lack inside mids and he is one.

2. We also have to give our compo or Morton. Seriously our compo is going to net us a very veyr good mid. Put it this way the depth of 2012 draft means that at say pick 22 you can probably net a player that would go close to top 10 other years. Morton is more expendable but I am confident he will make the wing his own again.

Not that I don't want Omera or think he isn't a jet, but given our depth I would be very cautious in giving up a very good player and pick 20 in a super draft for a kid who we don't know will make it at AFL level. Have a look at Josh Toy.

Would prefer to use pick 10 this year on a mid and then go into the next draft having a midfield of something like:

Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Foley, Conca, Morton, Kavanagh, Top ten pick next yr, Compo pick next yr

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

Think we would be over selling for Omera if we gave up what has been suggested above.

1. Foley is a very good mid when up and running. Slow start to the year this year but he is coming off 2 years out of the game. Give him time and he will get back to 08 form like he did on the weekend. We lack inside mids and he is one.

2. We also have to give our compo or Morton. Seriously our compo is going to net us a very veyr good mid. Put it this way the depth of 2012 draft means that at say pick 22 you can probably net a player that would go close to top 10 other years. Morton is more expendable but I am confident he will make the wing his own again.

Not that I don't want Omera or think he isn't a jet, but given our depth I would be very cautious in giving up a very good player and pick 20 in a super draft for a kid who we don't know will make it at AFL level. Have a look at Josh Toy.

Would prefer to use pick 10 this year on a mid and then go into the next draft having a midfield of something like:

Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Foley, Conca, Morton, Kavanagh, Top ten pick next yr, Compo pick next yr

Bottom line is we, club, supporters and players including Foley, Cotch etc... are in the business of winning premierships so we shouldn't lose focus on who will be up and running in 5 years time and beyond when our window opens up which cuts to the issue of what we are all trying to achieve!!

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Geez I would say our window is probably 3 years away not 5. 5 is almost a full rebuild.

3 years and we will be top 4 and Foley will be 27/28.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

Geez I would say our window is probably 3 years away not 5. 5 is almost a full rebuild.

3 years and we will be top 4 and Foley will be 27/28.

Well we don't have a ruck rover, winger except lids, classy running half back, CHB, CHF, FF bearing in mind JR is a elite third tall forward out of position like wingman G Ablett snr was as FF, small forward as Martin is assisting, half forward flanker of GF quality not to mention our rucks. RFC need to learn from Richo the great wingman stuck incorrectly as a permanent forward for years, you build teams around players not fit players into team. If a player plays a unnatural role you will not get max ability from the talent on your list!!

This is going to be fixed in three years???

May I suggest dream on

truth is patience is the key - Doesn't mean we can't make the 8 as most of the teams in the comp are a rabble!!!

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: drafting

Oh dear.

 

[Damo80]

Re: drafting

What is this "JR is a third tall" line of thinking based on? He won the Coleman last year as a FF, and he's not exactly short - he's got almost an inch on his cousin. Just confused by what this line of thinking is based on if anyone can bring me up to speed?

Watched On The Couch last night, and apparently we're still a couple of defenders short (plus the obvious need of an improved ruck). I still reckon we can potentially fill the back 6 from the current list, and concentrate on building more quality in the middle, but what would I know!

 

[tigs2010]

Re: drafting

What is this "JR is a third tall" line of thinking based on? He won the Coleman last year as a FF, and he's not exactly short - he's got almost an inch on his cousin. Just confused by what this line of thinking is based on if anyone can bring me up to speed?

Watched On The Couch last night, and apparently we're still a couple of defenders short (plus the obvious need of an improved ruck). I still reckon we can potentially fill the back 6 from the current list, and concentrate on building more quality in the middle, but what would I know!

Probably coz he is third tallest out of our tall forwards? Is the best FF in the comp. It is least of our worries. Vickery is another tall forward. Griffiths will hopefully come on.

Personally i would prefer to keep the compo in an O'Meara deal but seriously next year there are what they classified 5 star players and there are supposively 10 of them. This year there are about 5 4-star level players and 2 or 3 5 stars. I actually think without Foley we could still make finals. If we look at the game he played on the weekend he would add value to a trade. However, look at the shockers he has thrown in along the way this year. What would people think of a straight swap of Foley for 2nd pick? Or if we threw in a Tuck or Thursty for it as well and kept our compo? Pick up Brad Crouch as a genuine inside mid who is tough with skill. I personally think O'Meara is worth giving up pick 22 and Foley but i also agree with amcre that we would be well worth hanging onto it.

Then next year we will pick up another 5-star player. 2013 season we would be adding 2 genuine top-liners to the list and if we keep the compo then we are a chance to pull another one out. If Adelaide beat us this week we are actually a chance to nail a Kavanagh/Buntine/Tyson type for next year. Kavanagh is most likely if we are willing to take a risk. Been injured a fair bit but i think he could be an A-grader long term.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: drafting

Probably coz he is third tallest out of our tall forwards? Is the best FF in the comp. It is least of our worries. Vickery is another tall forward. Griffiths will hopefully come on.

Personally i would prefer to keep the compo in an O'Meara deal but seriously next year there are what they classified 5 star players and there are supposively 10 of them. This year there are about 5 4-star level players and 2 or 3 5 stars. I actually think without Foley we could still make finals. If we look at the game he played on the weekend he would add value to a trade. However, look at the shockers he has thrown in along the way this year. What would people think of a straight swap of Foley for 2nd pick? Or if we threw in a Tuck or Thursty for it as well and kept our compo? Pick up Brad Crouch as a genuine inside mid who is tough with skill. I personally think O'Meara is worth giving up pick 22 and Foley but i also agree with amcre that we would be well worth hanging onto it.

Then next year we will pick up another 5-star player. 2013 season we would be adding 2 genuine top-liners to the list and if we keep the compo then we are a chance to pull another one out. If Adelaide beat us this week we are actually a chance to nail a Kavanagh/Buntine/Tyson type for next year. Kavanagh is most likely if we are willing to take a risk. Been injured a fair bit but i think he could be an A-grader long term.

With forwards it is not simply about height but the way they play/move, gel and create space for each other. For example G Ablett Snr really should have stayed on the wing kick 80 goals plus from the wing and geelong get a full forward the win the premiership. Likewise, Richo plays on wing, we get Franklin who knows.


JR has not kicked 120 goals for us as a Full forward and there are no real great full forwards about atm. Its a bit like Man U compared to Chelsea although that is soccer. You have to go back twenty years to see how proper ofrward lines function at AFL level. Last elite FF was Fev and Lloyd. Evem Franklin could be argued is a CHF.

Truth is JR should be playing as a forward pocket leading and drifting back into the square kicking 80+ goals behind a pacy leading full forward.

The thing that holds JR back from full forward role is pace. It is not about how many goals you kick in a season. It is about how many goals you kick on good defenders in GF situation eg. Frawley. JR is a great player and a brilliant player. He is probably the best third tall forward in the last 20 years in the AFL/VFL but for mine he does not play like a true full forward. Doesn't mean he doesn't earn the big bucks and isn't critical to our goal scoring power. I would like more of a leading pacy full forward from the square to create space for Reiwoldt to play the true role his body is dictating he should be playing!!



The thing is with drafting it is not about us, it is about them !!!! We are drafting success, we are not fixing problems. We are trying to win, we are not trying to not lose too much by being safe. We are an emerging team among many weak team with a few good teams at the top. We have plenty of deficiencies. It is not about us correcting the biggest deficiencies, it is about like at what others like the draftees can help us be as good as possible in 5 years when we get the team together. For example need a ruck. If we can't get a high quality right now, we get a ruck to help our mids for no cost while we wait for the right ruck to come. Same with a ruck rover or a quality wingman . You can't chase players that are not there!! You have to play the cards you are being dealt. Thats why for our first round pick I would be looking for forwards and/ or a back as the mids and rucks just will not be there that we require for us I suspect!!

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: drafting

Agree Damo. Put Grimes, Batchelor, Newman and hopefully Moore back into that backline and it looks a lot stronger. We need one of Post or Astbury to make it too but talent, talent, talent is what we should be drafting. Trade for needs, eg. ruck, draft for talent.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: drafting

Surely we are not back at the point where people are calling Jack a third tall again.

All Australian FF. You bomb it long to the square and he will out mark his opponent most times...= FULL FORWARD!