Draft/Trade Talk Only Thread

[stefoid]

How will it create trouble down the line. The Western Bulldogs Football Club for to long have been to happy to just to be apart of this competition. So what if our players are all good friends and they might get upset if someone rocks the boat. Do they play like mates?? Not a chance. We need a shake up, someone has to pay the price for our inept performances over the past 6 weeks.

What makes Cross one of our best midfielders? What makes him so special that he can't be replaced. Personally I really like Cross, he would be in my top 3 or 4 current favourite players, but he isn't exempt from my criticism, no-one is.

So what if the players get upset? you cant demand loyalty of players at the same time as shipping solid players out the door purely for reasons of team balance. You will end up with a mercenary environment where players will try to gouge the club for every cent they can get, or simply leave for greener pastures when the club cant/wont pay, or is going through an unhappy time onfield.

your type of post needs to be framed for roccos 'LETS DEMAND SUCCESS' thread.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

I have stated in previous threads that we have about 5 to 8 recognised players on our list that I would not trade, the rest are up for grabs. I haven't included the draftees from 06, I would be keeping all of them.

Off the top of my head the players I would not consider trading are:

Griffen, Gilbee, Cooney, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Harris??

Take your pick from the rest. And from the rest I will not be giving them up for nothing. If Carlton want Cross then it's a straight swap for Fevola, perhaps we might ask for a bit more, but hopefully you catch my drift.

you can add johno west and aker to that list id also say that cross harn and boyd would be in that list as we need the grunt, but if the price was right you never know. morris wouldn't get much and we are better with him in our back 6 if he plays on smaller players

 

[Gooka]

Trade McMahon for Meeson and 3rd rounder (if Scotty C wants the pick). Draft Henderson with our first pick if available (if not, McEvoy)

Then we've at least gone part way to plugging some gaps.

Use the 2nd rounder on the best inside mid and then from there go best available.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Trade McMahon for Meeson and 3rd rounder (if Scotty C wants the pick). Draft Henderson with our first pick if available (if not, McEvoy)

Then we've at least gone part way to plugging some gaps.

Use the 2nd rounder on the best inside mid and then from there go best available.

i like this idea we need to keep pick 4/5 and get McEvoy or henderson

anyway we will have picks 4 22 38 54 and there is talk about ray and McMahon wanting to go home, both have value and the names coming up for trades are murphy and meeson, hanson is another, with charman and fevola and for abit of grunt and a cheap price moore (we could get him for a 4th rd pick)

id like to see charman at the club what would we need to give for him?

how about McMahon for pick 15? from port
and for ray should we demand pick 6 maybe give them 22 aswell. or do we look at something like 24 and 40

using pick 15 for charman
pick 40 or 54 for moore
and keep 4 22 24 38 and or 40/54 and using 4 for what you said henderson or Mcvoy and 22 or 24 on the best ruckman

 

[Pigdog]

So what if the players get upset? you cant demand loyalty of players at the same time as shipping solid players out the door purely for reasons of team balance. You will end up with a mercenary environment where players will try to gouge the club for every cent they can get, or simply leave for greener pastures when the club cant/wont pay, or is going through an unhappy time onfield.

your type of post needs to be framed for roccos 'LETS DEMAND SUCCESS' thread.

And you should grow some balls and realise that this group do not have the ability or as it seems drive to take us further. Too many of our 'solid' players as you state only turn up every 2nd or 3rd week. Is this enough, not a chance.

And to think of it as a mercenary environment is a bit of a stretch, Cross will probably stay, and I want him to, but if we had the opportunity to snare a quality forward for a player of Cross's ability, but not necessarily him, then why not.

As I have said previously someone has to pay the price for our poor season, the kids have been good, they have probably overachieved, but the more senior players have had well below average years. Do we sit on our bums and hope they turn there careers around by persisting with them next year or do we be proactive and ship a few of them out with the hope we replace them with tougher/ more committed players?

 

[Pigdog]

Rumour in the Herald Sun is that Darren Jolly is considering his future with Sydney and is perhaps looking for a move back to Melbourne. Surely we would be one club that would look at him.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

id like to see charman at the club what would we need to give for him?
how about McMahon for pick 15? from port

Not sure that McMahon would be the type that Lethal would be a fan off.
While he is a good runner, Lethal tends to go for those with a bit of grunt about them & I worry that McMahon would be chewed up & spat out at the Lions. Anyone with the slighest tendancy not to be hard 100% of the time doesn't survive.

I would be suprised if Charman left the Lions, but if he did it would cost the club he leaves for a bit in trade terms. Obvioulsy he would be high in demand many Vic clubs would be on his tail.

Its hard with the Dogs it does look from the outside they have a few excess runners. Quick fix or develop your own?

One thing I would say is that the dogs should try & stop bringing the likes of McDougal. Its an each way bet, either get tried & true or grow your own.

I would be inclined to draft the likes of Henderson. You guys have been stiff in that the KPPs you have gone for in the past like Walsh & Williams have had no luck injury wise.

Build a team around the likes of Williams & Everitt, your young runners have plenty of time left in them if a few more KPPs & young ruckman can be fed in over the next few years you will be in good shape.

Just my 2c worth.

 

[mjp]

i like this idea we need to keep pick 4/5 and get McEvoy or henderson

Have you seen these guys play?

 

[mark73]

As I have said previously someone has to pay the price for our poor season

Not only that, but the coach will be looking 3, 4 years down the track. At the end of 1997 Denis Pagan traded Schwass to Sydney in exchange for Shannon Grant and at the time, most North fans were filthy about it. How could someone trade a great of the club, someone who'd been blitzing the years previous. And contrary to popular opinion, it wasn't just because of a spat. It was also because Pagan could see Schwass, while brilliant, was getting on. In other words he was sacrificed for the future of the team.

The fans are never going to agree to all trades, and always severely overrate their own teams players, but a trade isn't always about a "name". At the time Grant was just a kid with potential who appeared on the slow side. We weren't terribly against it, but if we'd have been told then that 5-6 years later he'd be a multiple AA representative, premiership player, Norm Smith medallist, match winner, B&F winner etc etc, we'd have laughed.

We'd take Daniel Cross. I don't know what we'd give up for him but we'd take him. Not because we necessarily need him, but he'd be a good replacement for Adam Simpson in about 2 years. As for the business about Jolly, he'd be a very good get for the Bulldogs. The recruiting dept. would be stupid if they weren't looking at him, IF, he was available.

 

[Pigdog]

Have you seen these guys play?

I can smell another Sellars incident here.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

i like this idea we need to keep pick 4/5 and get McEvoy or henderson

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't know why you guys would shoot so prematurely on McEvoy.

Henderson would still be there at #5 (assuming the so called 'top 4': Kreuzer, Cotchin, Masten, Morton are gone) but wont make it past #8 you'd think. At 196 cm and 92 kgs he would be in demand - is a great CHF/CHB who isnt afraid to crash packs.

Could be just what the Dr. Ordered for the Doggies.

 

[Sedat!]

Not only that, but the coach will be looking 3, 4 years down the track. At the end of 1997 Denis Pagan traded Schwass to Sydney in exchange for Shannon Grant and at the time, most North fans were filthy about it. How could someone trade a great of the club, someone who'd been blitzing the years previous. And contrary to popular opinion, it wasn't just because of a spat. It was also because Pagan could see Schwass, while brilliant, was getting on. In other words he was sacrificed for the future of the team.

The fans are never going to agree to all trades, and always severely overrate their own teams players, but a trade isn't always about a "name". At the time Grant was just a kid with potential who appeared on the slow side. We weren't terribly against it, but if we'd have been told then that 5-6 years later he'd be a multiple AA representative, premiership player, Norm Smith medallist, match winner, B&F winner etc etc, we'd have laughed.

We'd take Daniel Cross. I don't know what we'd give up for him but we'd take him. Not because we necessarily need him, but he'd be a good replacement for Adam Simpson in about 2 years. As for the business about Jolly, he'd be a very good get for the Bulldogs. The recruiting dept. would be stupid if they weren't looking at him, IF, he was available.

Good post. Out of interest, any of your 15 ruckmen looking for greener pastures at the moment? Instead of getting BOG for Tassie/Port most weeks, they can get paid a truckload more and play senior football. I like all your ruckmen, even young Goldstien looks the goods.

 

[stefoid]

And you should grow some balls and realise that this group do not have the ability or as it seems drive to take us further. Too many of our 'solid' players as you state only turn up every 2nd or 3rd week. Is this enough, not a chance.

And to think of it as a mercenary environment is a bit of a stretch, Cross will probably stay, and I want him to, but if we had the opportunity to snare a quality forward for a player of Cross's ability, but not necessarily him, then why not.

As I have said previously someone has to pay the price for our poor season, the kids have been good, they have probably overachieved, but the more senior players have had well below average years. Do we sit on our bums and hope they turn there careers around by persisting with them next year or do we be proactive and ship a few of them out with the hope we replace them with tougher/ more committed players?

hmm, yeah, becaues it takes a lot of balls to announce that there should be sweeping changes at the club, via an anonymous internet forum, doesnt it?

the only specific name youve come up with to trade is daniel cross, which is a joke in itself, as he is one of our best and most consistant midfielders, and a model of determination to succeed.

sacrificing the midfield to bolster our key position stocks is a deadend propostition, regardless. comapre how we performed this year with a sub par midfield, vs. last year when it was firing. with virtually the same forward line.

carlton HAS fevola. yet they blow worse than us. go figure.

Im not saying dont go for fevola, but throwing out good midfielders is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[Pigdog]

hmm, yeah, becaues it takes a lot of balls to announce that there should be sweeping changes at the club, via an anonymous internet forum, doesnt it?

the only specific name youve come up with to trade is daniel cross, which is a joke in itself, as he is one of our best and most consistant midfielders, and a model of determination to succeed.

sacrificing the midfield to bolster our key position stocks is a deadend propostition, regardless. comapre how we performed this year with a sub par midfield, vs. last year when it was firing. with virtually the same forward line.

carlton HAS fevola. yet they blow worse than us. go figure.

Im not saying dont go for fevola, but throwing out good midfielders is the wrong way to go about it.

What other names do you want? I wrote a list of untouchables and said that I was willing to trade almost anyone else, why don't you take your pick from the rest? And no I dont want to lose Cross, and maybe I shouldn't have picked him out, but will he make us a better team over the next few years? He has some glaring weaknesses which have not been addressed and which stop him from becoming an elite player. I have said this once and I will say it again, our midfield is our problem at present. We play an unaccountable style and we are littered with players who turn the ball over. So I say something has to change and I am the bad guy in this when it is plainly obvious that some tough decisions need to be made on some of the players on the list.

Will Fevola or a like player help us, maybe/ maybe not, but I dont think we can sit around and wait for the young guys to come, if they do at all. We must be proactive in our actions during trade week which Eade has suggested we will be from his comments over the last month..

 

[stefoid]

What other names do you want? I wrote a list of untouchables and said that I was willing to trade almost anyone else, why don't you take your pick from the rest? And no I dont want to lose Cross, and maybe I shouldn't have picked him out, but will he make us a better team over the next few years? He has some glaring weaknesses which have not been addressed and which stop him from becoming an elite player. I have said this once and I will say it again, our midfield is our problem at present. We play an unaccountable style and we are littered with players who turn the ball over. So I say something has to change and I am the bad guy in this when it is plainly obvious that some tough decisions need to be made on some of the players on the list.

Will Fevola or a like player help us, maybe/ maybe not, but I dont think we can sit around and wait for the young guys to come, if they do at all. We must be proactive in our actions during trade week which Eade has suggested we will be from his comments over the last month..

I want the names of the players you want to trade, and who you think youre going to get for them. otherwise youre just spinning.

 

[mjp]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't know why you guys would shoot so prematurely on McEvoy.

Henderson would still be there at #5 (assuming the so called 'top 4': Kreuzer, Cotchin, Masten, Morton are gone) but wont make it past #8 you'd think. At 196 cm and 92 kgs he would be in demand - is a great CHF/CHB who isnt afraid to crash packs.

Could be just what the Dr. Ordered for the Doggies.

Crap. He is a tall play with key position potential at AFL level. If we are counting on any 18year old kid - especially one who is in his first year - to make 'the difference', then we are collectively kidding ourselves.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the idea of drafting Henderson. But it really is pot luck with these things...he may or may not turn out to be everything he currently promises to be. So whilst he might be what the 'Dr ordered', he might also be the second coming of Tim Walsh, whose promise as an 18 year old (although he had what I would call 'intensity issues' as well) has been cut down due to injury, coaching and opportunity (in that order).

 

[Pigdog]

I want the names of the players you want to trade, and who you think youre going to get for them. otherwise youre just spinning.

This is an almost impossible task as I have no idea who is available and what teams would want, but here a couple, some of these trades would also require the trading of draft picks as sweeteners, you can decide there value:

Giansiracusa to Freo for R. Murphy or to Sydney for D.Jolly

Power to anywhere for a tough small defender in the Morris mould, but shorter.

As I said before I would put as many as a dozen of our players who play regular senior footy up for trade if I was made a reasonable offer from another club.

 

[scooter600x]

Power to anywhere for a tough small defender in the Morris mould, but shorter.

Morris is too tall?

 

[Pigdog]

Morris is too tall?

I was thinking of someone about 180cm or thereabouts. We do not have much depth with our small defenders which has been evidenced this year with the loss of McMahon and Gilbee at different stages.

 

[Gridlock'd]

This is an almost impossible task as I have no idea who is available and what teams would want, but here a couple, some of these trades would also require the trading of draft picks as sweeteners, you can decide there value:

Giansiracusa to Freo for R. Murphy or to Sydney for D.Jolly

Power to anywhere for a tough small defender in the Morris mould, but shorter.

As I said before I would put as many as a dozen of our players who play regular senior footy up for trade if I was made a reasonable offer from another club.

Ahhhh no. He is average, cant even get a game with Freo this weekend, with all their players out. If we got Murphy we would have another Bandy, Hunter, James or McDougall on our hands. Not we need. Particularly for Gia.

 

[Pigdog]

Ahhhh no. He is average, cant even get a game with Freo this weekend, with all their players out. If we got Murphy we would have another Bandy, Hunter, James or McDougall on our hands. Not we need. Particularly for Gia.

You make no sense with this comment. Which of the players that were dropped by Fremantle this week play as Key Forwards? What's that none. So if we dropped Cooney for disciplinary reasons would we bring in Street, no I wouldn't think so.

I made a suggestion, shoot it down all you want, but to think that we will become a good team with cats like Giansiracusa running around, well your delusional.

 

[stefoid]

I made a suggestion, shoot it down all you want, but to think that we will become a good team with cats like Giansiracusa running around, well your delusional.

and there is your problem in a nutshell. anyone you would gladly get rid of, you wont get much in return. youll trade one B grade player for another B grade player, and in the process, disrupt team harmony.

trade an A grade, in-form player that other teams might really want, and youll disrupt the team, the fans, and still have no guarentee that the player you get in return will perform for us.

thats why few players are 'on offer' each trade week and why relatively few trades ever get done.

this isnt my opinion, its just how it is.

 

[Pigdog]

and there is your problem in a nutshell. anyone you would gladly get rid of, you wont get much in return. youll trade one B grade player for another B grade player, and in the process, disrupt team harmony.

trade an A grade, in-form player that other teams might really want, and youll disrupt the team, the fans, and still have no guarentee that the player you get in return will perform for us.

thats why few players are 'on offer' each trade week and why relatively few trades ever get done.

this isnt my opinion, its just how it is.

But do we need much in return? I would think not. All we need is good solid AFL players who play well with the team and fill the role they are required to.

The players who fit into the B-grade category are the players who have seriously under-performed this year and are the ones who need to go. What makes Geelong a good team, is it because they have the best A grade players or is it because there B grade players fill a role and play well on a consistent basis. I admit that there A grade players in Ablett, Bartel, Chapman and Scarlett have all had very good years, but they get an even contribution across the board. We don't and thats the problem.

Through the early 00's we had Grant, West, Darcy, Johnson, Smith who were all A grade players but really not a lot under them, and that's why we were no good. Go back to the late 90's we had players like Southern, Croft, Hudson, Kretiuk, etc.. who were all very solid players as well as the A graders and thats why we were a pretty good team.

 

[vandalay industries]

Crap. He is a tall play with key position potential at AFL level. If we are counting on any 18year old kid - especially one who is in his first year - to make 'the difference', then we are collectively kidding ourselves.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the idea of drafting Henderson. But it really is pot luck with these things...he may or may not turn out to be everything he currently promises to be. So whilst he might be what the 'Dr ordered', he might also be the second coming of Tim Walsh, whose promise as an 18 year old (although he had what I would call 'intensity issues' as well) has been cut down due to injury, coaching and opportunity (in that order).

You forgot ABILITY!

 

[stefoid]

But do we need much in return? I would think not. All we need is good solid AFL players who play well with the team and fill the role they are required to.

The players who fit into the B-grade category are the players who have seriously under-performed this year and are the ones who need to go. What makes Geelong a good team, is it because they have the best A grade players or is it because there B grade players fill a role and play well on a consistent basis. I admit that there A grade players in Ablett, Bartel, Chapman and Scarlett have all had very good years, but they get an even contribution across the board. We don't and thats the problem.

Through the early 00's we had Grant, West, Darcy, Johnson, Smith who were all A grade players but really not a lot under them, and that's why we were no good. Go back to the late 90's we had players like Southern, Croft, Hudson, Kretiuk, etc.. who were all very solid players as well as the A graders and thats why we were a pretty good team.

geelong has had one good year with the same players that had 3 crap years previously. they changed their attitude and their system, not their list.

And what makes you think other teams want to trade their solid AFL players who fulfil their team role for our 'underperforming cats'? are their brains trusts just ******ed, or what?