Draft/Trade Talk Only Thread

[cong8]

So in a nutshell,

Dogs - Lose: Ray, 1st round selection, 3rd round selection, Gain: Fevola, Murphy, possible 3rd round selection.

Freo - Lose: Murphy, 1st round selection, Gain: Ray, 3rd round selection and another possible 3rd round selection.

Carlton - Lose : Fevola, possible 3rd round selection, Gain: Two first round selections.


Hmm interesting, Carlton are massive winners here. Freo do okay, but I think the Dogs are giving up way too much for a loose cannon and a muppet.

this is the way I've looked at it... (something I posted in a blues forum)
At the very least, Fev is going to be worth the doggies first round pick.

The question will be whether freo will give up pick 7 for ray and a 3rd rounder or two - iirc, they are in need of hard running, pacy midfielders - something that ray does reasonably well.

Will the trades be done - impossible to know.
I'd suggest that the dogs will target Fev heavily. Smorgan has come out and said things need to change at the club and from memory that they need to target a power forward. I'd also suggest that Eade knows that his position is likely to come under heavy scrutiny if the dogs miss the finals in 08. Under such circumstances, first round draftees are likely to be of less value than an established gun player who can contribute significantly to the clubs on field performance immediately. I really dont see the dogs 'rebuilding' next year given the pickup of akermanis the previous year - their time is now.

Imo, freo is the wildcard - we dont know whether they will rebuild under harvey or continue to push for the finals - I'd suspect that if peter bell plays on, they will look to top up players for the finals (and hence be interested in ray, who is still quite young but would slot right into their 22).

Realistically its hard to say whether ANY club in the the above trade would gain massively.

Certainly, if picks 5 and 7 become superstars the blues are going to be all smiles - though as we all know, unless potential is fulfilled, it remains just that - potential. In a supposedly weak draft, perhaps its more likely the dogs/freo will be amenable to losing first round picks (given where they are in terms of finals).

Freo would be breakeven-ish - a 3rd round selection from the doggies+ray (formerly first rounder)

Doggies - the sucess of the trade will come down to how deep you go in the finals over the next few years. Someone asked why you would want murphy if you get Fev - without knowing enough about murphy to comment, I'd suggest that having 2 KP players (one proven, the other still quite young and improving but has shown some signs) to slot into your forward 50 would be preferred to just Fev alone. At the very least, it would mean you would have a mid-aged KP player by the time Fev retires

 

[murphy2bedabest]

this is the way I've looked at it... (something I posted in a blues forum)
At the very least, Fev is going to be worth the doggies first round pick.

The question will be whether freo will give up pick 7 for ray and a 3rd rounder or two - iirc, they are in need of hard running, pacy midfielders - something that ray does reasonably well.

Will the trades be done - impossible to know.
I'd suggest that the dogs will target Fev heavily. Smorgan has come out and said things need to change at the club and from memory that they need to target a power forward. I'd also suggest that Eade knows that his position is likely to come under heavy scrutiny if the dogs miss the finals in 08. Under such circumstances, first round draftees are likely to be of less value than an established gun player who can contribute significantly to the clubs on field performance immediately. I really dont see the dogs 'rebuilding' next year given the pickup of akermanis the previous year - their time is now.

Imo, freo is the wildcard - we dont know whether they will rebuild under harvey or continue to push for the finals - I'd suspect that if peter bell plays on, they will look to top up players for the finals (and hence be interested in ray, who is still quite young but would slot right into their 22).

Realistically its hard to say whether ANY club in the the above trade would gain massively.

Certainly, if picks 5 and 7 become superstars the blues are going to be all smiles - though as we all know, unless potential is fulfilled, it remains just that - potential. In a supposedly weak draft, perhaps its more likely the dogs/freo will be amenable to losing first round picks (given where they are in terms of finals).

Freo would be breakeven-ish - a 3rd round selection from the doggies+ray (formerly first rounder)

Doggies - the sucess of the trade will come down to how deep you go in the finals over the next few years. Someone asked why you would want murphy if you get Fev - without knowing enough about murphy to comment, I'd suggest that having 2 KP players (one proven, the other still quite young and improving but has shown some signs) to slot into your forward 50 would be preferred to just Fev alone. At the very least, it would mean you would have a mid-aged KP player by the time Fev retires

i am a fev fan and would love to get him at the club he would be a great fit for us, but

we have no number 1 ruckman street skipper minson and wight are at best 2nd rate ruckman minson has huge upside and wight can be what ever.
so we should target charman or atleast wood

plus we need abit more grunt some one said moore could be a pick up and cheap, id be happy with him.

so what do we have to give up McMahon and Ray look like they want to go home and i think we can get something like picks 7 and 10 for both of them.

giving us picks 5 7 and 10. so do we draft or trade

 

[Amers]

What would you give for Fev?

There has been some talk of Fev being traded during trade week and that the doggies are interested as you are a tad short on key position forwards. What would you be willing to trade?

A popular option getting thrown around Carlton circles is Fev for pick 5 and Griffen. If that is not realistic then what is?

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Re: What would you give for Fev?

A popular option getting thrown around Carlton circles is Fev for pick 5 and Griffen. If that is not realistic then what is?

Far from ever being realistic. I wouldn't trade you Griffen alone for Fev, nor our first pick. Both are extremely valuable to us. Griff will be one of the best players in the competition if he lives up to his potential. He is a complete player; body size, skill, pace etc. He's something we desperately lack, as he can find his own ball and play the outside game well. Pick 5 is also very important to us IMO. It gives us an opportunity of drafting a possible 200 gamer for the club. It gives us the possibility of drafting a young quality KPF, who we could get a decade out of as opposed to Fevola's 3 years. It might well be a risk, but you can't tell me taking a punt on Fevola isn't. His attitude problems can effect not only himself but an entire team. Not to mention, his pay packet and what we'd have to give up for him. The right option is clear as far as I'm concerned.

Simple; stay away from Fevola and draft. Surely after years of idiotic trading, we have learnt. Never trade your first round draft pick, ESPECIALLY if it's in the top five. Our philosophy should be to use players (McMahon, Giansiracusa, Ray, Eagleton, Wight, Power) to either:
a) secure more draft picks and draft for more of our needs. (Meaning a few would have to be delisted to accomodate for this. More or less it's a mini re-build)
or
b) ditto above, but use the picks to secure players on other sides lists in whom would suit our sides needs (eg. tall forwards, inside mids, midfield taggers, small-medium backs, rucks)
or
c) trade player for player needs. (eg. mcmahon to crows, meesen to the dogs - not suggesting this, using it as an example)

We need to play it smart. Keep our first round draft pick in particular and draft a quality KPF. I would be inclined to keep our second rounder too, and use it on either the best available ruck or the best available inside mid with a bigger body. However, it's likely the second rounder could be/would be used to lure a player of our needs from another club. This way, we draft well for our needs whilst also trading a few of our current expendable players for needs.

Hypothetically;
Gain via draft: KPF with DP#5, Inside Mid with a bigger frame, Young ruckmen, Medium-small back. (I doubt we will take 5 picks into the draft.)
Gain via trade: Inside mid/young ruck/medium-small back/tall forward. (Possibly of getting a combination of at least two of these. Clearly not going to be able to fill all four holes. I would think perhaps a combination of an inside mid/tall forward would be the go - but who really knows.)
Lose via trade: Ray? (Involving a deal regarding Murphy?) McMahon? (Involving a deal regarding an inside mid or young ruck?).

Obviously this is all extremely hypothetical and probably a long shot off the mark, but it's just an opinion of what I think the club should look to do. As we have several holes, we're better off growing our own KPF and using current expendable players (McMahon & Ray namely) to top up in other areas of needs. If we could get an inside mid & a ruckmen or forward in the trade period, it'd be handy. It's having a bit of everything, rather than blowing the lot on getting a Fevola type player. All a stab in the dark at this stage, though. It'll be a very interesting period.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Re: What would you give for Fev?

There has been some talk of Fev being traded during trade week and that the doggies are interested as you are a tad short on key position forwards. What would you be willing to trade?

A popular option getting thrown around Carlton circles is Fev for pick 5 and Griffen. If that is not realistic then what is?

dreaming

 

[Butane]

Re: What would you give for Fev?

A popular option getting thrown around Carlton circles is Fev for pick 5 and Griffen. If that is not realistic then what is?

Holy shit. No wonder Carlton are no good, everyones smoking crack!

 

[Guido]

This thread is a friggen mess.

Completely disjointed, all over the place, jumping from completely unrelated topic to competely unrelated topic in the space of each post.

For what, the sake of not "cluttering" a discussion board with - wait for it - TOPICS OF DISCUSSION?

If reducing clutter is the #1 priority (as it seems to be), why not take it the extreme and start one thread called "Bulldogs" and have every single topic concerning the club in moved in there. Get the board looking real neat and tidy! Heaven forbid we have too many topics getting discussed.

At the very least, "drafts and trading" should be given it's own Bulldog sub-board. Everyone gets to discuss - In depth and in an organised fashion - the individual topic/trade/drafting idea they're interested in, and the main bulldogs board is free of clutter so people can discuss the really relevant issues like best players to wear #25 between 1964 and 1987.

70 different topics mashed together in one thread, having to manually trawl through 50 pages to manually find 3 or 4 posts concerning the direct topic you're interested in ... it is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Gooka]

Doggies - the sucess of the trade will come down to how deep you go in the finals over the next few years. Someone asked why you would want murphy if you get Fev - without knowing enough about murphy to comment, I'd suggest that having 2 KP players (one proven, the other still quite young and improving but has shown some signs) to slot into your forward 50 would be preferred to just Fev alone. At the very least, it would mean you would have a mid-aged KP player by the time Fev retires

Disagree. If we throw first rounders at Fev we need to win a flag otherwise it's a useless episode. First rounders now are game breakers in 5 years. 27 year old nows, are retirees in 5 years.

 

[cong8]

Disagree. If we throw first rounders at Fev we need to win a flag otherwise it's a useless episode. First rounders now are game breakers in 5 years. 27 year old nows, are retirees in 5 years.

I agree with what you are saying to an extent - I originally wrote 'how deep you go in finals' as a success measure as the next step for your list is pretty much to get into the finals and win a few games there.

Ultimately a flag is going to be considered 'success' however it can be a somewhat inaccurate mesasure. If for example, a Fev trade got you into a 2-3 of prelims/GF appearances but you didnt manage to win a flag due to coming across a better team on the day how would you classify that? Not really a success but you could hardly say that the trade 'failed' or wasnt worthwhile.

As an aside, just curious as to how long doggies supporters think Eade has got to actually get the dogs deep into the finals (ie past week 2) - or even just a finals appearance - and if, as I suspect he has only got 1 more year or so, how do you think that might impact on his draft/trading this year?

 

[Dorval6]

I've gone cold on Fev.

My two cents:

-Use pick 5 to Draft for our KPP needs - looks like we may get a decent KPP prospect at this pick.

-Trade our excess for other teams excess: Meesen / Wood etc. may be available in exchange for the likes of McMahon.
This is unlikely to cost any draft picks or, at the most, involve some swapping picks.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Fev is fools gold with some magic beans thrown in for good measure. We need our structure fixed before we go for quick fixes.

 

[Ruiner]

Fev is fools gold with some magic beans thrown in for good measure. We need our structure fixed before we go for quick fixes.

I agree.
Fev won't stop us regularly getting 150 points kicked against us.
Didn't matter who was playing FF after 1/4 time last week, the ball didn't get there.

 

[DogsRuleWstNoBul]

Important points for me is you have a game plan. From the game plan you
work out your structure. This gives you how many Ruckmen, KPP, Flanker,
and Midfield type players you need. Not to mention player types as in
inside or outside players that need to be in the mix. You have so many
of each and therefore you recruit the players and you play the players
in the structure no matter how bad or good and you pick based on form
from the pool of each type for each position. You put a tall KPP in CHF
and you pick him from the pool of KPP's you have and you put the best
available in. If he is the best of a crap lot you still leave him there
as you are playing to a structure and game plan. You play the average
players in those positions until someone better comes along and pushes them
out. Given this you would not pick a small to play tall in the team
structure where a tall would play.

This is what Eade has been sucked into doing with the fast paced dogs of
05/06. I think they thought fill the team with fast flanker types and we
will out run all other teams. Sure they have recruited talls but they
all look like tall fast flanker types. I'm not sure if they have
abandoned that type of player yet. This draft will show what they are
thinking.

Other teams have worked out how to stop this type of full on running
side. Play players back to stop the link up run and sit in the holes and
it all stops.

I hope we have a decent game plan and draft for our structure/needs. Not best available. If you delist talls you recruit talls if its midfielders you delist then you recruit that type

If we delist/retire the following
Darcy
M West
Walsh
Monty
McCormack
Baird
That means we should recruit the following
1 Ruckmen
2 Kpp
1 Flanker (Put Baird as a tall flanker)
2 Midfielder

What do you think?

 

[vandalay industries]

This thread is a friggen mess.

Completely disjointed, all over the place, jumping from completely unrelated topic to competely unrelated topic in the space of each post.

For what, the sake of not "cluttering" a discussion board with - wait for it - TOPICS OF DISCUSSION?

If reducing clutter is the #1 priority (as it seems to be), why not take it the extreme and start one thread called "Bulldogs" and have every single topic concerning the club in moved in there. Get the board looking real neat and tidy! Heaven forbid we have too many topics getting discussed.

At the very least, "drafts and trading" should be given it's own Bulldog sub-board. Everyone gets to discuss - In depth and in an organised fashion - the individual topic/trade/drafting idea they're interested in, and the main bulldogs board is free of clutter so people can discuss the really relevant issues like best players to wear #25 between 1964 and 1987.

70 different topics mashed together in one thread, having to manually trawl through 50 pages to manually find 3 or 4 posts concerning the direct topic you're interested in ... it is beyond ridiculous.

You're not wrong! The main board will be filled up with sh1t such as the above metioned. What the hell else are we going to discuss between now and draft week? "What do you bring to the footy"? "Your favourite footy card"! "Where do you sit at Telstra Dome"? blah blah blah.......

 

[Dogs Rule]

Re: What would you give for Fev?

There has been some talk of Fev being traded during trade week and that the doggies are interested as you are a tad short on key position forwards. What would you be willing to trade?

A popular option getting thrown around Carlton circles is Fev for pick 5 and Griffen. If that is not realistic then what is?

Daylight robbery.

If a deal gets done you might get pick 5 and perhaps a mid-range player.

 

[Butane]

Re: What would you give for Fev?

I'd be pissed off if we traded Griffen for Fev in a straight swap. Why don't we just hand them the 2009 Premiership cup why we are at it. By 2010 Fev will be considering retirement and we will be looking for another quick fix while Griffen is in his prime ripping teams apart with his run and carry.

 

[Dogs Rule]

As much as we need a power forward, I don't want Fevola under any circumstances. He is a w*nker and his attitude is pathetic on and off the field.

Some people probably still believe Aker is an idiot for some of the things that come out of his mouth, but the difference between him and Fevola is that Aker at least has some (in fact a fair bit) of intelligence.

I genuinely believe Fevola is probably as dumb in real life as he is on the footy field, and the sort of person who we don't need around our club.

I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

 

[promking22]

Re: What would you give for Fev?

Daylight robbery.

If a deal gets done you might get pick 5 and perhaps a mid-range player.

Agreed. Griffen is one of our highest valued players, I'd be extremely disappointed if he were traded.
Also agree a fair bit with the Fevola = fool's gold idea, but he'd still be of value. Just a little under what many people are touting, and definitely not worth a 1st round with Griffen

 

[stefoid]

As much as we need a power forward, I don't want Fevola under any circumstances. He is a w*nker and his attitude is pathetic on and off the field.

Some people probably still believe Aker is an idiot for some of the things that come out of his mouth, but the difference between him and Fevola is that Aker at least has some (in fact a fair bit) of intelligence.

I genuinely believe Fevola is probably as dumb in real life as he is on the footy field, and the sort of person who we don't need around our club.

I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

This is no rawlings cant kick dodgy knees type of deal - fev is the real thing. We need a tall forward who can really play. Therefore the club will at least find out what the going rate is, and whether Fev is willing to come over to us. To do anything less would be idiotic. Whether he is a w***er or not is completely immaterial.

I think pick 5 and a late first rounder gained through trade would probably clinch the deal, if calrton is willing to part with him. They may do a hawthorn and see their window being open in 4 years on the back of a raft of very low draft picks.

 

[Pigdog]

I think pick 5 and a late first rounder gained through trade would probably clinch the deal, if calrton is willing to part with him. They may do a hawthorn and see their window being open in 4 years on the back of a raft of very low draft picks.

I would throw stones at the redevelopment if they did this... No thanks..

We have to part with our underperforming/ expendable players not our draft picks.

 

[Astro_]

It would hurt to see either Griffen/Cooney/Gilbee go. They are my 3 untouchables.

 

[bulldogtragic]

This is no rawlings cant kick dodgy knees type of deal - fev is the real thing. We need a tall forward who can really play. Therefore the club will at least find out what the going rate is, and whether Fev is willing to come over to us. To do anything less would be idiotic. Whether he is a w***er or not is completely immaterial.

I think pick 5 and a late first rounder gained through trade would probably clinch the deal, if calrton is willing to part with him. They may do a hawthorn and see their window being open in 4 years on the back of a raft of very low draft picks.

Worth a punt i'd say.

 

[stefoid]

I would throw stones at the redevelopment if they did this... No thanks..

We have to part with our underperforming/ expendable players not our draft picks.

who you looking at whoose worth a first rounder? macmahon? youd be lucky.

 

[DOG GOD]

As much as we need a power forward, I don't want Fevola under any circumstances. He is a w*nker and his attitude is pathetic on and off the field.

Some people probably still believe Aker is an idiot for some of the things that come out of his mouth, but the difference between him and Fevola is that Aker at least has some (in fact a fair bit) of intelligence.

I genuinely believe Fevola is probably as dumb in real life as he is on the footy field, and the sort of person who we don't need around our club.

I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

please send this to eade.

 

[DOG GOD]

what can fev offer us that johnno cant. IS fev a PACK marker? dont think so.