Draft Watch part 2

[Dr Tigris]

My 2 cents worth.

Midfields win premierships, see Collingwood, Geelong, West Coast. But without a couple of big strong KPFs you struggle for structure - see Dogs. We have JR who is likely to be a long term star, perhaps the best KPF in the AFL. OK, to me what we need is someone to stand with him in the forward line who takes a bog backman. We don't need another A grade forward. But we do need more A grade mids, desperately. So I would go best mid, especially 70 meter outside runner. Just because of what our looks like being like in 4 years.
I see the desire for 2 big good forwards. But very few teams ever have had that. And the ones that have won premierships (RFC 1980, Hawks 1980s, Brisbane) had fantastic midfields as well. If you don't have the midfield you cannot win a premiership. JR plus another decent B forward is enough to win a premiership, IMHO.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Anyone reading the BF phantom? It's throwing up lots of good ideas - and there's some really good reviews being circulated.

The guy at 21 on my rankings is still there at 26 - but i doubt he'll last all the way to 29.

25, 26 and 27 are all still there too, but one of them doesn't fit the model i'm drafting for - not this early anyway.

 

[Mr Magic]

My 2 cents worth.

Midfields win premierships, see Collingwood, Geelong, West Coast. But without a couple of big strong KPFs you struggle for structure - see Dogs. We have JR who is likely to be a long term star, perhaps the best KPF in the AFL. OK, to me what we need is someone to stand with him in the forward line who takes a bog backman. We don't need another A grade forward. But we do need more A grade mids, desperately. So I would go best mid, especially 70 meter outside runner. Just because of what our looks like being like in 4 years.
I see the desire for 2 big good forwards. But very few teams ever have had that. And the ones that have won premierships (RFC 1980, Hawks 1980s, Brisbane) had fantastic midfields as well. If you don't have the midfield you cannot win a premiership. JR plus another decent B forward is enough to win a premiership, IMHO.

I don't disagree with that but how many A grade mids do we want.

I want 1 more A grade tall forward and a B + mid tier Steinberg( maybe I am reaching as only seen the video with Stein) but 4 more A grade midfielders.

My argument is if you get Lynch you will get at least 3 more A grade mids in 2011-2013 at least not to mention 2014/2015.

If you get an A grade mid now you will not get an A grade tall Forward and maybe 2 more A grade mids because the mids push you up the ladder quicker due to their development unless you put your C Bruces in the backline like a Melb.

The problem is, IMO, some of you guys seem to think we will be a threat in 3 years eg. top5. My answer to that is our team is not good enough at the moment IMO. A number of players on our list have limited upside IMO but they are empowered to prove me wrong more power to them and I hope they do. The point is even if the team explodes up the ladder it is a scenario where you can cross that bridge when you get there. For example, just say we get Lynch, performs as expected, we get another good mid in 2011 , maybe 2 good mids plus , who knows who we pick we the later picks. Just say we finish top 6 in 2012. Can't see it happening but if we do our team has to be performing including our youngsters who will accordingly be worth a lot unless they fluked it with draw bias and injuries to opposition. If so we can trade some of our younger stars for a premium mid if required for a team that sees them as a better fit. Some , IMO are putting the cart ahead of the horse.

At the end of the day Lynch gives us more upside on many fronts directly, or indirectly and if we need a better mid in a rush our player breakouts will enable a trade. Otherwise, our team will develop into a force that will scare the likes of the Geelong powerhouse with one more A grade forward and at least 4 more A grade mid midfielders/backman/forwards.

I see the need for mids, I want a heap more, I see a need for a good small/mid forward and a mid backman aswell, I just see the demand for a good forward/Ruck cameo like lynch now far more pressing. Getting a quality forward later , like in 3 years is not a realistic option, pure and simple!

 

[Calcium Man]

I don't mind which way we go. If we do pick Lynch I'll trust that FJ sees something special in this kid. I can see him and Griff playing as second rucks to vickery in the future.

If we go Polec or a mid I think they probably have a few question marks over lynch or believe Vickery will become more of a forward or that Polec is that far ahead of lynch.

Yes recent premiership teams have been built off midfields but just for the record

WC - cousins - F/S probably would have been a top 5 pick
Judd - pick 3
Kerr - pick 18
Cox - rookie
Fletcher - rookie
Braun - pick 53
Embody - pick 57
Stenglien - pick 29

Geelong- albett - f/s but was still a speculative pick
Bartel - pick 8
Corey - pick 8
Ling - pick 38
Selwood - pick 7
Kelly - pick 17
Enright - pick 47

Collingwood
Swan - pick 58
Thomas - pick 2
Pendlebury - pick 5
Wellingham - rookie
Sidebottom - pick 10
Didak - pick 3
Ball - pick 30 and pick 2
Jolly - rookie

Hawthorn
Hodge pick 1
Mitchell - pick 36
Lewis - pick 7
Bateman -pick 48
Sewell- rookie
Young - rookie
Ellis - pick 3

I think this shows you don't need to use a host of top picks to put together an elite midfield. And in our case it looks pretty good

Cotchin - pick 2
Martin - pick 3
Deledio - pick 1
Foley - rookie
Morton - f/s but was a top 5-10 pick in his year
Edwards - pick 26
Jackson - late pick can't remember tho
Vickery - pick 8 (still young but could go either way)
Grigg - pick 19

Hopefully houli or hicks come on as well. Connors, Dea, Newman and O'Rielly of the HB and pick 28 or what ever we get this year another mid plus top 10 mids over the next two seasons it looks promising especially if Lynch lives up to the hype.

Just a quick note on the best KPF

Riewoldt - pick 1
Franklin - pick 5
Brown - F/S
Hall - pick 19
Tredrea - Zone Selection
Fevola - pick 38
Jack Reiwoldt - pick 13
Kennedy - pick 4
Tippet - pick 32
Roughead - pick 2

A few others who look very promising are
Gumbleton- pick 2
Hansen-pick 3
Henderson - pick 7
Walker - nsw scholarship
Watts - pick 1
Hurley - pick 5 (probably be KPD tho)
Grant - pick 5

There might be 1 or 2 I'm missing but every year recruiters get better and more and more the top KPFs are found near the pointy end of the draft.

I'm not saying get Lynch just that if we do I'll have high hopes for him because I reckon FJ will see something special

 

[Bojangles17]

No-one would be more pissed off than me

if we were to draft a ruckman with our first pick. with vick looking like an irish experiement, I'm horrified at the prospect of this Gorringe fella being in Y&B overlooking a virtual smorgasboard of midfield talent along the way. Don't do it tiges

 

[bigstyletiger]

Really good effort Calcium Man. Think you've illustrated the situation nicely.

 

[Morro]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

I agree mate, stack the midfield with as much talent as possible.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

if we were to draft a ruckman with our first pick. with vick looking like an irish experiement, I'm horrified at the prospect of this Gorringe fella being in Y&B overlooking a virtual smorgasboard of midfield talent along the way. Don't do it tiges

Gorringe and Lycett are streets ahead of the next ruckmen, just as Lynch is in front of all other forwards bar Cook.

The midfielders however, have a lot of depth this year.

Not saying I think we'd take Gorringe - but I'd completely understand why we'd pick Lynch or Gorringe.

 

[Mr Magic]

I don't mind which way we go. If we do pick Lynch I'll trust that FJ sees something special in this kid. I can see him and Griff playing as second rucks to vickery in the future.

If we go Polec or a mid I think they probably have a few question marks over lynch or believe Vickery will become more of a forward or that Polec is that far ahead of lynch.

Yes recent premiership teams have been built off midfields but just for the record

WC - cousins - F/S probably would have been a top 5 pick
Judd - pick 3
Kerr - pick 18
Cox - rookie
Fletcher - rookie
Braun - pick 53
Embody - pick 57
Stenglien - pick 29

Geelong- albett - f/s but was still a speculative pick
Bartel - pick 8
Corey - pick 8
Ling - pick 38
Selwood - pick 7
Kelly - pick 17
Enright - pick 47

Collingwood
Swan - pick 58
Thomas - pick 2
Pendlebury - pick 5
Wellingham - rookie
Sidebottom - pick 10
Didak - pick 3
Ball - pick 30 and pick 2
Jolly - rookie

Hawthorn
Hodge pick 1
Mitchell - pick 36
Lewis - pick 7
Bateman -pick 48
Sewell- rookie
Young - rookie
Ellis - pick 3

I think this shows you don't need to use a host of top picks to put together an elite midfield. And in our case it looks pretty good

Cotchin - pick 2
Martin - pick 3
Deledio - pick 1
Foley - rookie
Morton - f/s but was a top 5-10 pick in his year
Edwards - pick 26
Jackson - late pick can't remember tho
Vickery - pick 8 (still young but could go either way)
Grigg - pick 19

Hopefully houli or hicks come on as well. Connors, Dea, Newman and O'Rielly of the HB and pick 28 or what ever we get this year another mid plus top 10 mids over the next two seasons it looks promising especially if Lynch lives up to the hype.

Just a quick note on the best KPF

Riewoldt - pick 1
Franklin - pick 5
Brown - F/S
Hall - pick 19
Tredrea - Zone Selection
Fevola - pick 38
Jack Reiwoldt - pick 13
Kennedy - pick 4
Tippet - pick 32
Roughead - pick 2

A few others who look very promising are
Gumbleton- pick 2
Hansen-pick 3
Henderson - pick 7
Walker - nsw scholarship
Watts - pick 1
Hurley - pick 5 (probably be KPD tho)
Grant - pick 5

There might be 1 or 2 I'm missing but every year recruiters get better and more and more the top KPFs are found near the pointy end of the draft.

I'm not saying get Lynch just that if we do I'll have high hopes for him because I reckon FJ will see something special

For what its worth, very little HA Ha, from the vision I seen on the highlights video internet IMO I rate Lynch fairly highly compared to the group of forwards mentioned above. I don't think Lynch will be a flop or a mug pick anyway!

 

[bigstyletiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

TFLUA hope you're going to post up your rankings list after the mock. Am keen to see just where you rank the kids. Maybe you could start with your top 10 if they have all been picked up.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

TFLUA hope you're going to post up your rankings list after the mock. Am keen to see just where you rank the kids. Maybe you could start with your top 10 if they have all been picked up.

It's constantly changing - I'll have it set in stone after the mock finishes.

But here's my current top 10:

1. Swallow

2. Day

3. Polec

4. Bennell

5. Heppell

6. Lynch

7. Gorringe

8. Harper

9. Pitt

10. Prestia

 

[bigstyletiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Good work TFLUA. You've obviously put a lot of work and thought into this current crop. Appreciate you sharing it with us.

 

[heartbroken]

Question re Polec

I dont really know much about the potential draftees other than what I see on Youtube or the AFL site.

Polec looks a bit similar (in my eyes) to Daniel Connors. Very left footed and likes to do the fancy stuff.

Am I right or way off the mark?

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: Question re Polec

I dont really know much about the potential draftees other than what I see on Youtube or the AFL site.

Polec looks a bit similar (in my eyes) to Daniel Connors. Very left footed and likes to do the fancy stuff.

Am I right or way off the mark?

Probably best to put this is in the draft thread rather than its own thread.

i think it's a bit off the mark - for Polec's disposal is more consistent than Connors', and he's more than capable of going in and doing the grunt work under packs, and then soaring away with the ball, stepping a guy or two and drilling it in to a forward.

He's probably got more to his bag of tricks than Connors does. In saying that - their ability to break open a game in a short space of time is one they share - but Polec breaks game apart in more devastating fashion.

Maybe Griffen rather than Connors?

 

[#hollywood#]

Here's a scenario that although unlikely, is certainly possible:

Jack Darling slips to our second round pick. I fancy Freo to take him but I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with Reece Conca at 20.

I would be over the moon with Darling falling into our hands, what do others think?

We've seen KPFs who have had a poor year leading into a draft slip massively in the past so it is a possibility.

I think a top-10 pick can only be addressed in one way - best available.

Regardless of position or need (unless it is glaringly massive), you just have to go with the best kid.

 

[Post_maN]

Hey TFLUA any thoughts on Josh Walker from the geelong falcons. Could he come into calculations with a late pick in the draft??

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Here's a scenario that although unlikely, is certainly possible:

Jack Darling slips to our second round pick. I fancy Freo to take him but I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with Reece Conca at 20.

I would be over the moon with Darling falling into our hands, what do others think?

We've seen KPFs who have had a poor year leading into a draft slip massively in the past so it is a possibility.

I think a top-10 pick can only be addressed in one way - best available.

Regardless of position or need (unless it is glaringly massive), you just have to go with the best kid.

Darling will not be there at 30. 20 maybe - not 30. No way.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Hey TFLUA any thoughts on Josh Walker from the geelong falcons. Could he come into calculations with a late pick in the draft??

He'll certainly come into it a bit later on. I've got him in my top 50 - quick lead up forwards with exceptional endurance are a valuable commodity. Repeat efforts are great, and hands are relatively sticky.

Worries about his kicking, and his lack of versatility - I don't want him playing as a defender unless he improves his skillset. Athletic defenders need to be able to hurt with the ball.

 

[_RT_]

The answer for me is apart from Day, he is the only one good enough, best fit sand best available for the Tigers potentially.

Josh Walker and Anton are simply not threatening enough to be effective in a finals situation. They do not have enough weapons to worry the opposition under the pump, missing X factor. If we were going to get mids early, apart from Sternberg, I wouldn't get any other forwards late. As someone else said Mitchell is limited. A lot of footy is physicogical, It is like Malthouse with the Rucks, if you are going to get one they need to be good.

Now with your argument all 5 less than 35 , JR was about 12 and could have gone 8 if we didn't trade for Polak, Vickery was 8, Griff was injury queried otherwise he would be close to 10 and Post still has a jury but was a late bloomer like Lynch. Astbury was a very astute pick and to be commended but Griff still mighn't make it with the shoulders and I am not convinced FF is not a better position for him than CHF. I also think JR is most lethal as a third tall off the leash coming from the side or behind in the goal square after a leading Griff. You have to remember it is a team game and individual brilliance is not as good as the team collective. It is not just that Lynch is a very good forward , it is that Lynch is the very type of forward we want, leading, big tank, midfield qualities and Ruck prospects. The other thing is I am yet to be convinced Vickery is a true forward as opposed to a hybrid. Astbury is effective in defense and I also see Post having a role there to for sustained periods. The thing for me is Lynch breaks our forward line open by leading up the ground and creating space for a leading Griff and JR. Lynch could also be great in transition out of the backline . Lynch could have broken Collingwoods flood for example for St Kilda. Lynch could play a real Richo role and Lynch has midfield qualities at a level I have not seen in a forward for a long time let alone someone at 199cm.
Lynch for me could be a very good, but even if he isn't he is a real worry for the opposition and a key focal point. Lynch can bring qualities few players can bring IMO and he would be a nightmare matchup who wouldn't need an abundance of possessions to have an impact.

Cook and Mitchell do not have the required impact so if we got Gaff/Polec or
heppell I woudn't get Cook or Mitchell. You would be lucky to get someone like Lynch in the next 3 years as some rate him better than last years forwards and it would be highly unlikely to get a Lynch type whereas there is a good chance you could get players as good as the midfield three mentioned

Walker and Hamp don't have to be match winners to be servicable in a forward line that includes Jack and Griffiths. All they need to be able to do is play the lead up CHF role and I'm confident that both could do that. In fact its the same role that you're suggesting for Lynch, which would still allow Jack and Griff to lead out from the square. As you say its a team game not one for individuals. IMO there is no real difference if we go Lynch Jack & Griffiths or Walker Jack & Griffiths.

 

[Bojangles17]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Gorringe and Lycett are streets ahead of the next ruckmen, just as Lynch is in front of all other forwards bar Cook.

The midfielders however, have a lot of depth this year.

Not saying I think we'd take Gorringe - but I'd completely understand why we'd pick Lynch or Gorringe.

hmmm, sounds a whole lot like the case put for vickery

 

[NQTIGER]

Why does it necessarily have to be Lynch? Why can't we target a KPF with a later pick? We already have Jack Griffiths Post Astbury & possibly Vickery who could play as a tall forward. All 5 were taken inside the top 35 of the draft so the talent is obviously there.

As it is, we're heading into the draft with 4 picks inside 50, surely we'd be able to find another option if we overlooked Lynch at 6. Josh Walker & Anton Hamp are 2 kids who I believe could be available around the 46-50 mark and going by the write ups I've read on them both seem to play that lead CHF role that people here seem to have Lynch pencilled into.

With Jack and Griffiths already here, to me, there is no real need to go for someone like Lynch at 6. I reckon we'd be better served in building some real midfield depth by adding one of the highly rated midfielders at 6, maybe another 1 at 29 and then possibly looking at adding a tall later. Obviously if Mitchell or Cook was around at 29 you would jump at either 1 and look at the midsized option for the later picks

RT i will use the old adage, big men dont get any smaller as the game goes on.......and i accept your list Astbury is being groomed as a CHB, we have a shoratge of quality big men.....but im sure the club will pick the player that suits the tigers best.

 

[_RT_]

He'll certainly come into it a bit later on. I've got him in my top 50 - quick lead up forwards with exceptional endurance are a valuable commodity. Repeat efforts are great, and hands are relatively sticky.

Worries about his kicking, and his lack of versatility - I don't want him playing as a defender unless he improves his skillset. Athletic defenders need to be able to hurt with the ball.

Good to hear, as you can tell I'm starting to warm to the idea of taking someone like him at 46 or 50.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

hmmm, sounds a whole lot like the case put for vickery

Are you talking about Lynch or Gorringe?

Gorringe is a hell of a lot more mobile and athletic than Vickery is. You'd be more worried that he wouldn't fill out or put on those last few cm's - even if he doesn't - he can be bred as a forward or play as an extra midfielder.

Much more versatile than Vickery is.

 

[_RT_]

RT i will use the old adage, big men dont get any smaller as the game goes on.......and i accept your list Astbury is being groomed as a CHB, we have a shoratge of quality big men.....but im sure the club will pick the player that suits the tigers best.

I'm not saying we shouldn't take a tall just questioning whether we should necessarily take one at 6 when we could still get a handy one later on.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Gorringe is a hell of a lot more mobile and athletic than Gorringe is..

Glad we cleared that up