Draft Watch part 2

[Calcium Man]

I'm not saying we shouldn't take a tall just questioning whether we should necessarily take one at 6 when we could still get a handy one later on.

But would you rather a Riewoldt/Brown or a Dawes/hansen?? And I know the midfield wins premierships but we will have top 10 picks for the next 2 years and probably one being a top 5 pick. There are always midfielders like Polec, look at the last handful of drafts, Ziebell, Sidebottom, harlett, rich, Selwood, cunnington ect.

If Lynch is everything they say, I don't know havent seen him, why wouldn't we take a superior forward who makes life easier for your mids and immediately puts defences under pressure. Jack, Griff and Lynch is an extremely scary forward line.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Glad we cleared that up

Gah! Sociology study has fried my brain. Thanks for that.

 

[_RT_]

But would you rather a Riewoldt/Brown or a Dawes/hansen?? And I know the midfield wins premierships but we will have top 10 picks for the next 2 years and probably one being a top 5 pick. There are always midfielders like Polec, look at the last handful of drafts, Ziebell, Sidebottom, harlett, rich, Selwood, cunnington ect.

If Lynch is everything they say, I don't know havent seen him, why wouldn't we take a superior forward who makes life easier for your mids and immediately puts defences under pressure. Jack, Griff and Lynch is an extremely scary forward line.

All I'm trying to do is see whether Lynch is a legit candidate or if he is a flavour of the month type. By the responses it would seem that Lynch is a legit candidate for pick 6 and if we were to take him then I'd have full confidence in what FJ and co decide.

 

[Calcium Man]

All I'm trying to do is see whether Lynch is a legit candidate or if he is a flavour of the month type. By the responses it would seem that Lynch is a legit candidate for pick 6 and if we were to take him then I'd have full confidence in what FJ and co decide.

Thats the way I see it too. I really dont mind who we pick up. FJ has done an unbelievable job so far and the recruiting team seems to be growing an improving every year.

 

[Rustof]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Whoever is the following:
- Consistent
- Great work ethic
- Loyal
- Team oriented
- Footy first, party second
- Has talent
- Good kick, especially off both feet
- And finally... Can play.

 

[Cathal Brugha]

But would you rather a Riewoldt/Brown or a Dawes/hansen?? And I know the midfield wins premierships but we will have top 10 picks for the next 2 years and probably one being a top 5 pick. There are always midfielders like Polec, look at the last handful of drafts, Ziebell, Sidebottom, harlett, rich, Selwood, cunnington ect.

If Lynch is everything they say, I don't know havent seen him, why wouldn't we take a superior forward who makes life easier for your mids and immediately puts defences under pressure. Jack, Griff and Lynch is an extremely scary forward line.

You could add a 'resting' Vickery to that as well. With the recruitment of Grigg and Houli I reckon we should go with Lynch. It would mean that we could 'put to bed' our forward line recruitment for the next 2 years and go mid-fielder crazy if they wish to. I also believe our Backline is set.

 

[Azzleberry]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Are you talking about Lynch or Gorringe?

Gorringe is a hell of a lot more mobile and athletic than Vickery is. You'd be more worried that he wouldn't fill out or put on those last few cm's - even if he doesn't - he can be bred as a forward or play as an extra midfielder.

Much more versatile than Vickery is.

TFLUA,
I disagree with this. When Vickery was drafted, he was in calculations from picks 4-10. It was believed that Port was really considering him at 4 but chose best available in Hartlett. The same things were said about Vickery that are now being said about Gorringe. He is a tall ruck but has the mobility to go forward and kick goals, good athletic type ruckman. Now Gorringe is widely seen as going anywhere from 6 to 12 and reminds me exactly of all the talk around Vicks. I think it's a little unfair at this point in time to say Gorringe is a hell of a lot more mobile and athletic than Vicks. Let's see when Gorringe puts on 10-15kg if he is still that mobile/agile...

 

[Azzleberry]

You could add a 'resting' Vickery to that as well. With the recruitment of Grigg and Houli I reckon we should go with Lynch. It would mean that we could 'put to bed' our forward line recruitment for the next 2 years and go mid-fielder crazy if they wish to. I also believe our Backline is set.

It will all depend on how the football department rate our current crop of talls both now and into the future.

Grimes and Gourdis - Both being groomed for Full back. Depth.
Astbury and Post - Both have had stints at CHB, Astbury looks settled and confident there, Post looks more like the Leigh Brown type of second ruck/run everywhere.
Griffiths - CHF. Dodgy shoulders, no replacement. No certainty to make it, is 3 years away at best.
JR8 - Enough said. Full forward for 10 years.
Vickery, Graham both rucks who can go forward to stretch a defence, will not play as a primary forward.

Based on this, if FJ and the guys rate all the players above as 10+ year players, then we shouldn't draft a tall with our first pick. However, if Griffiths goes out with a shoulder injury and Riewoldt gets injured, we have no forwards. There is no depth. Do we add a potential 'elite' CHF to our books and understand that he won't offer us any impact for 2-3 years, or do we add a potentially 'elite' midfield who will come straight in and contributing and bump us up the ladder a bit..

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

TFLUA,
I disagree with this. When Vickery was drafted, he was in calculations from picks 4-10. It was believed that Port was really considering him at 4 but chose best available in Hartlett. The same things were said about Vickery that are now being said about Gorringe. He is a tall ruck but has the mobility to go forward and kick goals, good athletic type ruckman. Now Gorringe is widely seen as going anywhere from 6 to 12 and reminds me exactly of all the talk around Vicks. I think it's a little unfair at this point in time to say Gorringe is a hell of a lot more mobile and athletic than Vicks. Let's see when Gorringe puts on 10-15kg if he is still that mobile/agile...

I must say - I was never a Vickery fan. People talked about him being this option capable of being super athletic - acting as an extra midfielder as well as being a strong presence up forward.

Vicks has never been as athletic as Gorringe is - and he's certainly always been reasonably loping as far as stride goes.

 

[Azzleberry]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

I must say - I was never a Vickery fan. People talked about him being this option capable of being super athletic - acting as an extra midfielder as well as being a strong presence up forward.

Vicks has never been as athletic as Gorringe is - and he's certainly always been reasonably loping as far as stride goes.

So you rate this draft year that much better than the 08 draft in which Vickery was taken at 8 and would have been a top 12? Even after the GC have taken around 7 players out of this draft??

 

[Spluff]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

I must say - I was never a Vickery fan. People talked about him being this option capable of being super athletic - acting as an extra midfielder as well as being a strong presence up forward.

Vicks has never been as athletic as Gorringe is - and he's certainly always been reasonably loping as far as stride goes.

He doesn't look as athletic as Gorringe (I think his running style contributes to that a lot), and he has a lesser vertical leap, but he's faster and I believe he is more agile (though without the numbers its hard to tell on the agility front).

 

[bigstyletiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

I must say - I was never a Vickery fan. People talked about him being this option capable of being super athletic - acting as an extra midfielder as well as being a strong presence up forward.

Vicks has never been as athletic as Gorringe is - and he's certainly always been reasonably loping as far as stride goes.

I çan't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Vickery ran a 2.9 something at the draft camp. He does have toe but probably not the fitness or he has put on too much size and lost it. Every now and then you see him break into a sprint he just can't maintain it. May come back with conditioning and maturity.

 

[Tigerland]

It will all depend on how the football department rate our current crop of talls both now and into the future.

Grimes and Gourdis - Both being groomed for Full back. Depth.
Astbury and Post - Both have had stints at CHB, Astbury looks settled and confident there, Post looks more like the Leigh Brown type of second ruck/run everywhere.
Griffiths - CHF. Dodgy shoulders, no replacement. No certainty to make it, is 3 years away at best.
JR8 - Enough said. Full forward for 10 years.
Vickery, Graham both rucks who can go forward to stretch a defence, will not play as a primary forward.

Based on this, if FJ and the guys rate all the players above as 10+ year players, then we shouldn't draft a tall with our first pick. However, if Griffiths goes out with a shoulder injury and Riewoldt gets injured, we have no forwards. There is no depth. Do we add a potential 'elite' CHF to our books and understand that he won't offer us any impact for 2-3 years, or do we add a potentially 'elite' midfield who will come straight in and contributing and bump us up the ladder a bit..

_______________________________________________

Agree with most of that except for Griffiths.

In the limited game time he has had (never lost a game) he has shown enough for me to think - yep we have one there. Added to that the hype coming form the club that he has what it takes. As for dodgey shoulders... the guy is what 19 or so, he is growing into his body. Others with so called faulty shoulders include Judd, Carey, Jacovick and Franklin.
To say his shoulders are a worry is like the panic merchants that rabbit on about Cotchin. There are so many glass half full types on this board it's not ****ing funny!

 

[partycorolla]

_______________________________________________

Agree with most of that except for Griffiths.

In the limited game time he has had (never lost a game) he has shown enough for me to think - yep we have one there. Added to that the hype coming form the club that he has what it takes. As for dodgey shoulders... the guy is what 19 or so, he is growing into his body. Others with so called faulty shoulders include Judd, Carey, Jacovick and Franklin.
To say his shoulders are a worry is like the panic merchants that rabbit on about Cotchin. There are so many glass half full types on this board it's not ****ing funny!

I think you mean glass half empty.... not full

 

[T4P]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

I must say - I was never a Vickery fan. People talked about him being this option capable of being super athletic - acting as an extra midfielder as well as being a strong presence up forward.

Vicks has never been as athletic as Gorringe is - and he's certainly always been reasonably loping as far as stride goes.

He's also soft, doesn't put his body on the line. I have a lot of question marks over Vickery.

 

[Delids]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

I must say - I was never a Vickery fan. People talked about him being this option capable of being super athletic - acting as an extra midfielder as well as being a strong presence up forward.

Vicks has never been as athletic as Gorringe is - and he's certainly always been reasonably loping as far as stride goes.

I agree. Gorreige is much more atheltic than VIC. Agility and leap is far more superior. Vics does have pace off the mark and prob is his biggest strenght but i rarely seen him get off the ground or swoop on loose balls.
I remember Vics under 18 highlights, he kicked a few goals for Vic Metro, they were from his leads. I dont think he took one grab from a strong pack mark or leaping over an opponent.
I still think Vickery will become a good player for us, more as a mobile ruckman. But Gorreige is much more athletic and agile, a very good leap!

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Would love some thoughts on the Newton selection - did you want another inside/out midfielder. Would you have preferred someone of the same type - or do you think we have other needs that need addressing?

If I didn't go Newton, Karnezis and Tape were next on my list.

I left Karnezis because I think he's the most likely to slide, and Newton was too good to pass up. I really like Tape though - and think he could take a third tall and provide a legitimate attacking option from the backline. I see more of a need for him than Cripps.

And lads - fantastic discussion on Vickery.

Azz - i don't understand. I didn't have Vickery in my top 15. Don't think my preference of Gorringe to Vickery at all correlates to how good I think the draft pool is?

 

[Spluff]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

He's also soft, doesn't put his body on the line. I have a lot of question marks over Vickery.

Vickery had no problems putting his body on the line until this year, when our mismanagement of him in forcing him to be our main ruckman against players 30kg heavier than him took its toll. I'd suggest when he regains some confidence and some size he'll regain his willingness to go hard.

 

[tugga]

I would haved been rapt if we got Vickery at pick 40, but at pick 8, it was a complete shemozzle.
I will once again go on record and say that this guy was an out and out failure at pick 8.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

I would haved been rapt if we got Vickery at pick 40, but at pick 8, it was a complete shemozzle.
I will once again go on record and say that this guy was an out and out failure at pick 8.

Not a failure yet Tug.

Give him until he's 23 - then make a call.

 

[TigerTime88]

I just watched the replay of the Freo game and Vickery grabs the ball on the wing and sprints away from blokes a few times to deliver inside 50. YOu guys seriously need to chill out on this bloke he will become a good player but needs 3 more years. Have a look at guys like Luenberger, McEvoy and see how far off they were in their development at this stage.

As for the pack mark stuff whoever said that, you are a victim of only watching highlights. I watched the game where he kicked 2 or 3 I think it was against Country or WA and he took contested marks, thats why he was so impressive.

In saying all that I still wanted Ziebell/Sidebottom at the time and thought we would be jumping all over Ziebell.

As for Gorringe I don;t think he really fits a need as we have Vickery who will come on if you guys allow this kid to get to a normal AFL ruck size rather than him feel like he is 14 playing on 18 yr olds and then we have Graham as a back up. Plus only one ruck will play in the future and Post will terrorise ruckman like he did against Brogan in rnd 22.

I am pretty much of the blief that if we build an amazing midfield everything else wil look alot better ala West Coast forward line of 06 and even Geelong now. Build the engine room to an awesome level and the backline as well and then kick it to Jack. Other forward options will appear because we will pick up some dangerous smalls and have a few other tall optoons. Plus it sounds like Taylor is coming back after all and it was a beat up.

Houli Griffiths Grigg

King Riewoldt Taylor

Is not a bad start for the forward line and would be dangerous enough with a really good midfield, hence why I think Tom Lynch is not needed. Plus I don't rate him.

 

[bigstyletiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Would love some thoughts on the Newton selection - did you want another inside/out midfielder. Would you have preferred someone of the same type - or do you think we have other needs that need addressing?

If I didn't go Newton, Karnezis and Tape were next on my list.

I left Karnezis because I think he's the most likely to slide, and Newton was too good to pass up. I really like Tape though - and think he could take a third tall and provide a legitimate attacking option from the backline. I see more of a need for him than Cripps.

And lads - fantastic discussion on Vickery.

Azz - i don't understand. I didn't have Vickery in my top 15. Don't think my preference of Gorringe to Vickery at all correlates to how good I think the draft pool is?

TFLUA I think you made a good selection. Think I had him on my wishlist at our second round pick. Having said that I think I would have selected Reece Conca as he was still available. Still I really like the sound of Newton. Haven't seen him but generally trust your judgement. Looking forward to seeing who you pick up next. Is it just me or is this BF phantom crawling?

Back on Newton. Just read his profile on http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/102355/default.aspx

talk about a switched on kid who is motivated to improve and knows exactly what he needs to do.

In his own words
What type of player are you?
Smart footballer who can play inside and outside, good skills, good decision making, clean hands and a bit of good sense.

Which AFL player do you feel you resemble, and why?
Similar playing style to Luke Hodge in that I am not overly quick or explosive, but really smart and damaging player like him. I am not saying I am as good as him though, just a similar playing style.

What are your strengths as a footballer?
Skills - clean hands, strong mark, intelligent, goal kicking ability.

What parts of your game would you like to improve?
Fitness, explosive pace, agility, general body strength, super in-tight handball skills, kicking at full pace, kicking long at full pace, goal kicking.

Which AFL team do you support and how did you come to barrack for them?
The West Coast Eagles. I came to barrack for them because I was born into an Eagles supporting family.


Who has been the biggest influence on your career so far, and why?
My dad because he just always pushed me to be the best I could be, gave me good advice and was always there when I asked for help.

From the footage he looks like a terrific left foot kick. OK in tight and really good overhead. Biggest query is pace. Looks to be running up and down on the spot. Would have to be an inside mid I think for this reason although Sidebottom has quite average pace and he goes ok on the HFF.

 

[Mr Magic]

I just watched the replay of the Freo game and Vickery grabs the ball on the wing and sprints away from blokes a few times to deliver inside 50. YOu guys seriously need to chill out on this bloke he will become a good player but needs 3 more years. Have a look at guys like Luenberger, McEvoy and see how far off they were in their development at this stage.

As for the pack mark stuff whoever said that, you are a victim of only watching highlights. I watched the game where he kicked 2 or 3 I think it was against Country or WA and he took contested marks, thats why he was so impressive.

In saying all that I still wanted Ziebell/Sidebottom at the time and thought we would be jumping all over Ziebell.

As for Gorringe I don;t think he really fits a need as we have Vickery who will come on if you guys allow this kid to get to a normal AFL ruck size rather than him feel like he is 14 playing on 18 yr olds and then we have Graham as a back up. Plus only one ruck will play in the future and Post will terrorise ruckman like he did against Brogan in rnd 22.

I am pretty much of the blief that if we build an amazing midfield everything else wil look alot better ala West Coast forward line of 06 and even Geelong now. Build the engine room to an awesome level and the backline as well and then kick it to Jack. Other forward options will appear because we will pick up some dangerous smalls and have a few other tall optoons. Plus it sounds like Taylor is coming back after all and it was a beat up.

Houli Griffiths Grigg

King Riewoldt Taylor

Is not a bad start for the forward line and would be dangerous enough with a really good midfield, hence why I think Tom Lynch is not needed. Plus I don't rate him.

I would give Vickery till 26 before you throw him to the wolves. BTW I would be very surprised if Lynch did not turn out a more effective footballer than Vickery, not that I don't rate Vickery

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

TFLUA I think you made a good selection. Think I had him on my wishlist at our second round pick. Having said that I think I would have selected Reece Conca as he was still available. Still I really like the sound of Newton. Haven't seen him but generally trust your judgement. Looking forward to seeing who you pick up next. Is it just me or is this BF phantom crawling?

Back on Newton. Just read his profile on http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/102355/default.aspx

talk about a switched on kid who is motivated to improve and knows exactly what he needs to do.

In his own words
What type of player are you?
Smart footballer who can play inside and outside, good skills, good decision making, clean hands and a bit of good sense.

Which AFL player do you feel you resemble, and why?
Similar playing style to Luke Hodge in that I am not overly quick or explosive, but really smart and damaging player like him. I am not saying I am as good as him though, just a similar playing style.

What are your strengths as a footballer?
Skills - clean hands, strong mark, intelligent, goal kicking ability.

What parts of your game would you like to improve?
Fitness, explosive pace, agility, general body strength, super in-tight handball skills, kicking at full pace, kicking long at full pace, goal kicking.

Which AFL team do you support and how did you come to barrack for them?
The West Coast Eagles. I came to barrack for them because I was born into an Eagles supporting family.


Who has been the biggest influence on your career so far, and why?
My dad because he just always pushed me to be the best I could be, gave me good advice and was always there when I asked for help.

From the footage he looks like a terrific left foot kick. OK in tight and really good overhead. Biggest query is pace. Looks to be running up and down on the spot. Would have to be an inside mid I think for this reason although Sidebottom has quite average pace and he goes ok on the HFF.

See I don't have Conca in my top 30 - he's much more vanilla than Newton is. I had another midfielder in front of him too.

Yeah - I'm a real Newton fan. I think his onfield IQ means he doesn't seem to be too slow - and I don't think he's slow - he's just not flat out quick.

I like thinking footballers, especially one to complement Polec, and Newton fits that description down to the ground.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: No-one would be more pissed off than me

Does anyone know anything about Cameron Johnston from Geelong Falcons? I wouldn't mind picking him up to add versatility to our forward line. I have only seen clips on this kid but he runs a 2.8 for 20m and can roost it 60m as well as mark above his head and he is a good size for a small/medium forward.