Draft Winners and Losers

[BF Tiger]

What happens if the best players at Pick #1 and pick #6 next year are generational forwards that are far more highly rated than Faul etal? They now have 5 or 6 key forwards on their list from two seasons?

Because our recruiting team have not even bothered to look ahead and have been entirely focused on 2024?

They already know that there is no generational forward available next year unless something dramatic happens to an individual.

 

[BF Tiger]

Grimes was the best defender in the league because he... intentionally infringed at every contest knowing the umpires were not going to call 80 free kicks a game, thereby allowing himself to defend illegally and making him the "best defender" (not that he ever actually was even if you take his cheating into account) - this was the Richmond gameplan, surely you know this if you watched them?

So what you're saying is he played within the limits of the rules. FMD, maybe that explains why Carlton have had no success in 30 years.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So what you're saying is he played within the limits of the rules. FMD, maybe that explains why Carlton have had no success in 30 years.

Literally the exact opposite of what i'm saying. Amazing comprehension.

 

[BF Tiger]

Literally the exact opposite of what i'm saying. Amazing comprehension.

You need to understand if a player is not having free kicks called against him/her then they are playing within the rules. You might not like it, but that is the case. In another time it may have been called "unsocialable football" and before Richmond did it Hawthorn did it, and before them Geelong and before them Brisbane and before them Carlton last won a brown-paper bag influenced premiership.

Anything else is just whining - "oooo, but he infringed"

 

[FlowersByIrene]

You need to understand if a player is not having free kicks called against him/her then they are playing within the rules. You might not like it, but that is the case. In another time it may have been called "unsocialable football" and before Richmond did it Hawthorn did it, and before them Geelong and before them Brisbane and before them Carlton last won a brown-paper bag influenced premiership.

Anything else is just whining - "oooo, but he infringed"

Exactly, thank you for establishing my point that those players were not 'talented' and succeeded by playing "unsociable football" therefore elevating them above their talent level. Which was the entire point of the discussion. Bravo,

 

[BF Tiger]

Exactly, thank you for establishing my point that those players were not 'talented' and succeeded by playing "unsociable football" therefore elevating them above their talent level. Which was the entire point of the discussion. Bravo,

Unsociable football in itself is a talent. What it does is elevate talent to premiership - dynastic - levels.

FMD.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Unsociable football in itself is a talent. What it does is elevate talent to premiership - dynastic - levels.

FMD.

Sure, but you should know that no one respects the Richmond dynasty and, it's players outside of Dusty, will never be considered all time greats, and you are very likely never to recapture that lightning in a bottle. Which goes back to this draft and how you made wrong decision after wrong decision which you and your fellow supporters only explanation or excuse is "but, but, we used to be a dynasty" which as we've just established is irrelevant.

 

[blaisee]

Sure, but you should know that no one respects the Richmond dynasty and, it's players outside of Dusty, will never be considered all time greats, and you are very likely never to recapture that lightning in a bottle. Which goes back to this draft and how you made wrong decision after wrong decision which you and your fellow supporters only explanation or excuse is "but, but, we used to be a dynasty" which as we've just established is irrelevant.

I love that Richmond is the least talented and least respected triple premiership team in history in the eyes of the haters

It shows you how ignorant people are

It is hilarious

If only they could be as talented as the perennial underperformers that Carlton are, at least then Richmond would have respect lol

Buddy you are bad at this troll thing, you really need to LIFT

 

[BF Tiger]

Sure, but you should know that no one respects the Richmond dynasty and, it's players outside of Dusty, will never be considered all time greats, and you are very likely never to recapture that lightning in a bottle. Which goes back to this draft and how you made wrong decision after wrong decision which you and your fellow supporters only explanation or excuse is "but, but, we used to be a dynasty" which as we've just established is irrelevant.

Not respected by peanuts like you - how will we ever cope? I know... three premierships.

And pray tell... if you're so good at seeing the future to know all our draftees are duds why have you not been advising Carlton on the right players to draft for the past 30 years?

 

[Chief Hopper]

Building a spine is a key to winning the flag

Essendon is a great example of how important this is, and the absence of A grade KP players results in teams not winning finals for decades

Taking Faull, Armstrong, Simms gives Richmond the best chance of doing this and that is why it was done

It used to be the way to build a spine and stock up with key talls.
But not anymore.
Talls will take 5+ years to get up to standard, unless they are freaks like Moore, Hawkins or May.
Player movement, contract movement, has made waiting for players to develop take a backseat to players having an immediate impact.
Teams will trade in talls as stopgaps until they make a run at the finals. Also they will poach young developing talls already a few years in the system to make it more of a sure thing.

Tigers could prove me wrong. Or get battered over the next 5+ years waiting on those talls to get good.

 

[blaisee]

It used to be the way to build a spine and stock up with key talls.
But not anymore.
Talls will take 5+ years to get up to standard, unless they are freaks like Moore, Hawkins or May.
Player movement, contract movement, has made waiting for players to develop take a backseat to players having an immediate impact.
Teams will trade in talls as stopgaps until they make a run at the finals. Also they will poach young developing talls already a few years in the system to make it more of a sure thing.

Tigers could prove me wrong. Or get battered over the next 5+ years waiting on those talls to get good.

Of course they are going to get battered

Yea some of our talls will get poached for sure, just like Bolton and Rioli were, guess what the price will be?
2 first round picks. Weird how some oppo fans lament the fact that somehow all our talls are gunna make it, and then we will have to trade them

Guess What?

We will keep the best of them, and trade the rest, for first round picks

This is not really rocket science

Doesn't matter what happens as far as results go, in 25 or 26, all that matters is that 1 0r 2 of the talls make it, and its a much bigger chance of occurring if you take 4 talls in the first round, instead of 1.

This list build will be text book, do not fret

 

[Coach_Required]

Your list was always largely talentless, this has been discussed ad nauseum. Your dynasty was built off a disruptive game plan where VFL level talent who can run all day and infringe at rates higher than the Umpires were willing to call free's + the sprinkling of a handful of elite players like Dusty, Rance and Riewoldt - which resulted in extreme pressure and therefore wins. It wasn't because Richmond had the best talent, and your recruiting department is actually one of the poorest in the league.

 

[jdstorm]

Of course they are going to get battered

Yea some of our talls will get poached for sure, just like Bolton and Rioli were, guess what the price will be?
2 first round picks. Weird how some oppo fans lament the fact that somehow all our talls are gunna make it, and then we will have to trade them

Guess What?

We will keep the best of them, and trade the rest, for first round picks

This is not really rocket science

Doesn't matter what happens as far as results go, in 25 or 26, all that matters is that 1 0r 2 of the talls make it, and its a much bigger chance of occurring if you take 4 talls in the first round, instead of 1.

This list build will be text book, do not fret

2 first round picks for a rookie tall that is playing VFL as they are the worst of the pack of 2nd round talls you drafted? That’s “optimistic”

To reiterate the volume of talls was never my issue. Made sense for you to draft 3. Which you did.

My issue with your draft was that I think you went too early on talls since there were a bunch in the 20-30 range (which is the smart range to draft these guys) and a pair of gun HHFs were available at 14 due to a deep draft. In the modern AFL I just think Pressure Forwards are more valuable and if your tall drafting approach is about betting on volume and an attritional process may as well just load up in the 20s since they all have a similarly low statistical chance of lasting on an AFL list

 

[Grin]

Talls will take 5+ years to get up to standard

Probs why you focus a bit on drafting them early in the rebuild.
Getting in an A+ grade forward like Lynch or Daniher, at the right time isn’t that easy. Not something I’d be basing the recruiting strategy on.

 

[Coach_Required]

2 first round picks for a rookie tall that is playing VFL as they are the worst of the pack of 2nd round talls you drafted? That’s “optimistic”

To reiterate the volume of talls was never my issue. Made sense for you to draft 3. Which you did.

My issue with your draft was that I think you went too early on talls since there were a bunch in the 20-30 range (which is the smart range to draft these guys) and a pair of gun HHFs were available at 14 due to a deep draft. In the modern AFL I just think Pressure Forwards are more valuable and if your tall drafting approach is about betting on volume and an attritional process may as well just load up in the 20s since they all have a similarly low statistical chance of lasting on an AFL list

Not sure picking 1 tall in the first 20 is exactly too early. He was our last pick before a bit of a break in between, with one of those teams being Sydney who it's been mentioned had their eye on him as well. The club had plenty of picks so better to get in first than hope a player we wanted slid to our next pick.

Reckon the club got to pick 23 and was a tad surprised Armstrong was still there, too good to overlook at that pick. Also, not sure what the rush is on us having to take so many mids/smalls, it's not like we will be finishing high up the ladder in 2025, better off taking the quality mids with our highest picks. Very happy we took as many talls as we did because everyone knows it takes them a bit longer to develop so might as well get 12 months into them now than hope a decent tall arrives next year and end up like North.

 

[Rich01]

Sure, but you should know that no one respects the Richmond dynasty and, it's players outside of Dusty, will never be considered all time greats, and you are very likely never to recapture that lightning in a bottle. Which goes back to this draft and how you made wrong decision after wrong decision which you and your fellow supporters only explanation or excuse is "but, but, we used to be a dynasty" which as we've just established is irrelevant.

Well this post shows that anything you post on Richmond comes from a place of hatred for the club rather than a rational viewpoint.

But you laid many crumbs to get us here anyway Irene.

But really, why the angst?

 

[BigBreakfast]

Happens every year ...it just gets whinged about more when the father son goes to a club at the top ...this is why Brisbane banked a heap of " junk" picks to cover bids ...they still would have got him without any real discomfort ...next year it changes with the points allocated to picks being drastically reduced .
Personally I would have been pissed off if Richmond had bid on him at pick one as for Adelaide North and Carlton not bidding on him ...I couldn't give a Sh!t

Exactly

And there would be all sorts of back room deals made to avoid bids

We were involved in a Lions pick swap trade, part of which was like to be a “feel free to take Jagga at 3” arrangement

 

[Saints2028onwards]

As a saints fan, Im very happy with our haul. (i think)
My Concerns are it all seems to good to be true.
1. Why did Cats pick Molier over Dodson?
2. Why did Boxshall slip past Moraes and Ough?

Would’ve been nice to get Berry for
R1 2025 as that draft seems to be all academies again. Especially the mids.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

I think, until you see how the draftees perform, the only winners are Richmond, because we got North's future 1st for our future 2nd and pick 27.

 

[blaisee]

2 first round picks for a rookie tall that is playing VFL as they are the worst of the pack of 2nd round talls you drafted? That’s “optimistic”

To reiterate the volume of talls was never my issue. Made sense for you to draft 3. Which you did.

My issue with your draft was that I think you went too early on talls since there were a bunch in the 20-30 range (which is the smart range to draft these guys) and a pair of gun HHFs were available at 14 due to a deep draft. In the modern AFL I just think Pressure Forwards are more valuable and if your tall drafting approach is about betting on volume and an attritional process may as well just load up in the 20s since they all have a similarly low statistical chance of lasting on an AFL list

Please provide a list of the A Grade talls taken between pick 20-30, and the difference statistically between them and top 20 talls making it as A grade

You speak so definitively, you must have the data on hand

 

[jdstorm]

Please provide a list of the A Grade talls taken between pick 20-30, and the difference statistically between them and top 20 talls making it as A grade

You speak so definitively, you must have the data on hand

A list is pointless in this situation.
The most elite talls go top 5 or top 10.


No teams this draft had Talls ranked that high. Your just as unlikely to get an A grade tall at 16 as you are at 20+ (which is not very likely at all based on the average games players taken at that spot are expected to play)

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Please provide a list of the A Grade talls taken between pick 20-30, and the difference statistically between them and top 20 talls making it as A grade

You speak so definitively, you must have the data on hand

You guys did it perfectly, you took the 3 smalls, Hotton the risk one but peple forget how good he was prior to the injury, and all reports he's back at 100%, medicine is so much better these days. Faull at 11 makes sense, and he's the guy that has improved stacks this season, I was hoping he'd get to our pick. Armstrong was just too good to pass at that point regardless of some issues if he has them.

After that you trade your next to next year banking lets say for arguments sake a top 5-7 pick from North Melbourne.

Nice needs pick in the second night.

Next year you have pick 1 plus pick (5-7), you could split one or both of those for multiple picks if need be too.

Getting talls when Tassie are pillaging the draft is a terrible strategy, get them in and get them in now. It really is that simple not sure how hard it is to understand.

 

[blaisee]

A list is pointless in this situation.
The most elite talls go top 5 or top 10.


No teams this draft had Talls ranked that high. Your just as unlikely to get an A grade tall at 16 as you are at 20+ (which is not very likely at all based on the average games players taken at that spot are expected to play)

unsubstantiated garbage

 

[blaisee]

You guys did it perfectly, you took the 3 smalls, Hotton the risk one but peple forget how good he was prior to the injury, and all reports he's back at 100%, medicine is so much better these days. Faull at 11 makes sense, and he's the guy that has improved stacks this season, I was hoping he'd get to our pick. Armstrong was just too good to pass at that point regardless of some issues if he has them.

After that you trade your next to next year banking lets say for arguments sake a top 5-7 pick from North Melbourne.

Nice needs pick in the second night.

Next year you have pick 1 plus pick (5-7), you could split one or both of those for multiple picks if need be too.

Getting talls when Tassie are pillaging the draft is a terrible strategy, get them in and get them in now. It really is that simple not sure how hard it is to understand.

Strategically it was the right way to go, especially when Richmond's time frame is to contend in 5 years

All depends if the players selected will be good enough, lets see what happens

 

[LukeParkerno1]

unsubstantiated garbage

I'd love to know what his plan is when Tassie come in and get lets say half the first round across two drafts, where are you getting talls from and don't say trade for them, you have to go back to Cameron when that occurred and that was a unique situation.

Richmond have literally done this perfectly I'm struggling to see what the mistake they have made!