Draft Winners and Losers

[WCE_phil]

I agreed with you until the Chris Masten comparison. Chris Masten averaged 25 touches in his U18 year, Jagga averaged what? 35? and had games against men in the VFL where he had 30+ on multiple occasions. Completely different players.

Both undersized, both very quick and exceptional clearance players at U18 level. Masten a better kick, worse decision maker. Both seen as fast and slippery when drafted. Jagga is more slippery and better off the ground and by hand but is a significantly worse kick. Masten also played WAFL league his entire junior year and in his first senior year averaged 26.5 disposals per game there. Jagga Smith will be bullied off the ball on the inside against top level mids.

Was too weak to make it inside so had to transition to a more outside role. Had one elite year in 2013 with decent years between 13-15.

Lastly let me know how many years from now it is until Smith/Tsatas/Masten takes to reach 78-81kg playing weight as that was Mastens.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Dodson wasn't seen as a priority for WCE (even though our ruck department is beyond shit)

We had Travaglia at 11 and knew Tauru would be off the board. Tauru is probably equal in my mind with Lalor & FOS in regards to ceiling. The question is does he keep growing and what role does he play.

He's an unbelievable athlete and has come a long way and quickly, it just comes down to whether or not he can put all that talent together on field.

Cheers, much appreciated. I guess with Tauru he’s had a lot of injuries and has apparently grown 10cm in 18 months (and possibly hasn’t stopped yet), so we’ve really only seen him put it all together very briefly, so it’s probably just a big punt on what he could be, if he does indeed put it all together.

Seems to have a serious amount of self-confidence though, so that ought to give him a good chance of doing so.

It was a very weak year for Rucks in general and TBH the strongest ruck in the pool imo was Knobel. What is absolutely hilarious is Freo were originally asking too much for him to be traded only to delist him and have him snatched by GC after Knobel and his manager stated he either 100% wanted to stay at Freo or if not to head back to Victoria. I'm by no means writing Dodson off as he performed very well this year, it was just a very weak U18 year for rucks.

Was pretty funny the way that all panned out, although I’m not sure Freo, Max, or his manager would have been laughing!

I went back to see what you wrote about Isaac Keeler back in his year and you may be interested to hear that the penny may have dropped for him this preseason, as we’re hearing glowing reports about both his training and also his running.

Will be a treat for everyone who loves their footy if he makes it.

 

[Rich01]

Personally think Richmond have taken huge risks.

Hotton with major scar tissue in the knee and not running yet
Smillie I was super keen on going into the year but fell away as others developed physically (it's a bad sign)
6 Concussions already Luke Trainor (who is also undersized)

They got a great trade from North during the draft

Armstrong was exceptional value however in reality I think most teams would have had Faull as the third or 4th best tall forward.

Sims just made no sense to me.

In regards to talls WCE had Shanahan at 12, Armstrong at 14 on their board and both Whitlocks higher than Faull or Sims. Trainor due to concussion issues wasn't even on the draft board.

Lalor I was huge on and WCE had him at number 1 as well. But you're drafting on potential not output. He could be an absolute rolled gold star but he could also just be a mid sized forward or utility who has 1-2 seasons where he is a top player (similar to De Goey)

North took a huge risk on FOS after he showed seven shades of **** all this year

Jagga 'Chris Masten' Smith

That's not to say the WCE didn't make mistakes. I personally am not a huge fan of Allan and think he's one of the most physically developed in the draft class and secondly hasn't shown the ability to rack up numbers as a mid. We missed out on Boxshall because the saints pipped up as well. If you look at every player the eagles drafted however you can see a distinct role and type. We drafted for speed, aggression, marking and ground ball ability.

The top end of this draft was dead average and the most likely player to be very, very good is Draper. Lower ceiling than Lalor and FOS but a lot less risk. None of them would have gone top 3 last year. The draft however did have absolutely amazing depth across almost all areas bar Rucks.

Thought Port did amazingly well considering their picks and Brisbane kissed on the dick again with FS & Academy. Also thought overall Adelaide had a great trade/draft period. Lastly thought Melbourne did well in teaming up Langford & Lindsay

Thanks for the insight.
Know you were right in the heart of it all. I know someone from another clubs recruiting team and they had different views on where they placed the talls in particular. Perhaps that was just the nature of this years draft and strengths and weaknesses of the players. Time will tell whose assessments were correct.

A few questions from me…

Were there any concerns on Shanahans commitment to training from the Eagles perspective?

Wasn’t aware that Trainor had 6 concussions as these would have to have been reported. All clubs would have had access to this info. How did he not miss that many games in the last 2 years considering the 21 day protocols for single concussions?

What was the concern on Hotton considering his ACL? Did West Coast consider it more risky to pick him up because of his acl or had concerns over his recovery?

Did West Coast have concerns on Reid being a flight risk?

Was there any players at the top end that West Coast were looking at if they held 3?

How did West Coast split the Whitlocks ie. if both were on the board why would they have chosen one over the other? I hear some were quite enamoured with Jacks marking and ability to read the flight.

 

[blaisee]

Personally think Richmond have taken huge risks.

Hotton with major scar tissue in the knee and not running yet
Smillie I was super keen on going into the year but fell away as others developed physically (it's a bad sign)
6 Concussions already Luke Trainor (who is also undersized)

They got a great trade from North during the draft

Armstrong was exceptional value however in reality I think most teams would have had Faull as the third or 4th best tall forward.

Sims just made no sense to me.

In regards to talls WCE had Shanahan at 12, Armstrong at 14 on their board and both Whitlocks higher than Faull or Sims. Trainor due to concussion issues wasn't even on the draft board.

Lalor I was huge on and WCE had him at number 1 as well. But you're drafting on potential not output. He could be an absolute rolled gold star but he could also just be a mid sized forward or utility who has 1-2 seasons where he is a top player (similar to De Goey)

North took a huge risk on FOS after he showed seven shades of **** all this year

Jagga 'Chris Masten' Smith

That's not to say the WCE didn't make mistakes. I personally am not a huge fan of Allan and think he's one of the most physically developed in the draft class and secondly hasn't shown the ability to rack up numbers as a mid. We missed out on Boxshall because the saints pipped up as well. If you look at every player the eagles drafted however you can see a distinct role and type. We drafted for speed, aggression, marking and ground ball ability.

The top end of this draft was dead average and the most likely player to be very, very good is Draper. Lower ceiling than Lalor and FOS but a lot less risk. None of them would have gone top 3 last year. The draft however did have absolutely amazing depth across almost all areas bar Rucks.

Thought Port did amazingly well considering their picks and Brisbane kissed on the dick again with FS & Academy. Also thought overall Adelaide had a great trade/draft period. Lastly thought Melbourne did well in teaming up Langford & Lindsay

6 concussions for Trainor is bullshit , and how exactly is he undersized when he is 196cm ?

 

[Stan Judkins]

Richmond have also drafted Callum Coleman Jones (Pick #20) and haven't picked a good tall inside the first round since Rance / Riewoldt, so forgive me a touch of skepticism.

sorry FlowersByIrene i have to sincerely apologize for my uneducated RFC supporters
i whole heartedly agree with your summation of our draft haul and the difficulties in building a premiership list

reason?........well the Blues have been rebuilding a premiership list since your last one in 1995
no hang on, you cheated on that one and were severely penalized, so 1987 it is (coming on 40 years)
you guys should know how hard it is

that's why if any of our supporters need a heads up, it would be from you blokes, the mighty Blues supporters

 

[WCE_phil]

Thanks for the insight.
Know you were right in the heart of it all. I know someone from another clubs recruiting team and they had different views on where they placed the talls in particular. Perhaps that was just the nature of this years draft and strengths and weaknesses of the players. Time will tell whose assessments were correct.

A few questions from me…

Were there any concerns on Shanahans commitment to training from the Eagles perspective?

Wasn’t aware that Trainor had 6 concussions as these would have to have been reported. All clubs would have had access to this info. How did he not miss that many games in the last 2 years considering the 21 day protocols for single concussions?

What was the concern on Hotton considering his ACL? Did West Coast consider it more risky to pick him up because of his acl or had concerns over his recovery?

Did West Coast have concerns on Reid being a flight risk?

Was there any players at the top end that West Coast were looking at if they held 3?

How did West Coast split the Whitlocks ie. if both were on the board why would they have chosen one over the other? I hear some were quite enamoured with Jacks marking and ability to read the flight.

On Hotton it was the recovery. An ACL is never good but if the recovery goes well particularly for young players a lot of the time there aren't major lingering effects other than there is a huge chance of them doing the other knee in the future.

The problem comes from ones where the recovery process is challenging and requires more work. Nicnat's first ACL was an absolute mess and he had to change his game completely because of it, however his second ACL was more standard and after recovery had almost zero effect on him or his game.

There were flight risk queries over Reid however we had been in talks with him and he seemed like he would give it a good shot. He did mention that he doesn't like Fremantle in an interview though so a bit amusing.

Really no concerns on Shanahan, he's more a footballer with a slightly quiet personality but has a bit of white line fever. I think he slid as he's a more unassuming type, honest and doesn't necessarily give the generic answers that recruiters like. He has a really good attitude so even if someone is seen as a bit of a weak trainer in junior levels once in a professional environment as long as they have a good attitude it's not really a worry.

From a pure needs basis is Shanahan and Armstrong were off the board WCE would have drafted Matt first from a positional needs perspective. Basically had them on par for talent.

WCE had Lalor 1 and FOS 2, Jagga didn't want to leave Melbourne and Draper if he didn't get to stay in Adelaide preferred to move east. Once Lalor rose up the boards and neither of the first two were likely available we were almost certain to split. If he had of held pick 3 we would have drafted Langford.

On Trainor it's 6 concussions from 16-18yo. The AFL is a campaigner in regards to giving out medical info. We had Victorian scouts watching these kids from the time they were 14/15. Also this is for someone else Trainor is 194cm, he may be 196 in boots.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

On Hotton it was the recovery. An ACL is never good but if the recovery goes well particularly for young players a lot of the time there aren't major lingering effects other than there is a huge chance of them doing the other knee in the future.

The problem comes from ones where the recovery process is challenging and requires more work. Nicnat's first ACL was an absolute mess and he had to change his game completely because of it, however his second ACL was more standard and after recovery had almost zero effect on him or his game.

There were flight risk queries over Reid however we had been in talks with him and he seemed like he would give it a good shot. He did mention that he doesn't like Fremantle in an interview though so a bit amusing.

Really no concerns on Shanahan, he's more a footballer with a slightly quiet personality but has a bit of white line fever. I think he slid as he's a more unassuming type, honest and doesn't necessarily give the generic answers that recruiters like. He has a really good attitude so even if someone is seen as a bit of a weak trainer in junior levels once in a professional environment as long as they have a good attitude it's not really a worry.

From a pure needs basis is Shanahan and Armstrong were off the board WCE would have drafted Matt first from a positional needs perspective. Basically had them on par for talent.

WCE had Lalor 1 and FOS 2, Jagga didn't want to leave Melbourne and Draper if he didn't get to stay in Adelaide preferred to move east. Once Lalor rose up the boards and neither of the first two were likely available we were almost certain to split. If he had of held pick 3 we would have drafted Langford.

On Trainor it's 6 concussions from 16-18yo. The AFL is a campaigner in regards to giving out medical info. We had Victorian scouts watching these kids from the time they were 14/15. Also this is for someone else Trainor is 194cm, he may be 196 in boots.

I'd be happy to bet $5 that he told Freo recruiters that he doesn't like the Eagles ;-)

Interesting insights as always. I was a big fan of Draper, just felt his accumulator style is what we needed to complement our midfield. Notwithstanding his desire to move East, where did you have ranked him on purely footballing ability?

 

[Pistol Night]

I'd be happy to bet $5 that he told Freo recruiters that he doesn't like the Eagles ;-)

Interesting insights as always. I was a big fan of Draper, just felt his accumulator style is what we needed to complement our midfield. Notwithstanding his desire to move East, where did you have ranked him on purely footballing ability?

Five dollars?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

sorry FlowersByIrene i have to sincerely apologize for my uneducated RFC supporters
i whole heartedly agree with your summation of our draft haul and the difficulties in building a premiership list

reason?........well the Blues have been rebuilding a premiership list since your last one in 1995
no hang on, you cheated on that one and were severely penalized, so 1987 it is (coming on 40 years)
you guys should know how hard it is

that's why if any of our supporters need a heads up, it would be from you blokes, the mighty Blues supporters
View attachment 2184318

Great to see how perceptive Richmond fans were, we never cheated in connection with the 1995 premiership thanks mate - go back and look at your history.

 

[Pistol Night]

Great to see how perceptive Richmond fans were, we never cheated in connection with the 1995 premiership thanks mate - go back and look at your history.

Want to explain Glenn Manton's bolt through the snag? Surely thats not AFL approved

 

[Orange crush]

Want to explain Glenn Manton's bolt through the snag? Surely thats not AFL approved

pierctol night? wow

 

[Pistol Night]

pierctol night? wow

Might head down to Bunnings and ask the legends there what type and size they recommend

 

[blaisee]

Great to see how perceptive Richmond fans were, we never cheated in connection with the 1995 premiership thanks mate - go back and look at your history.

the whole history of Carlton and any success is tainted with cheating, brown paper bags and worst of all the convicted criminal Richard Pratt. It is in your genes, on your board, and defines your culture.

 

[Pistol Night]

the whole history of Carlton and any success is tainted with cheating, brown paper bags and worst of all the convicted criminal Richard Pratt. It is in your genes, on your board, and defines your culture.

Well look at how sad it is when they don't cheat the past 25 years. I think we need to allow them some leeway to cheat a bit

 

[nineteen eighty]

Great to see how perceptive Richmond fans were, we never cheated in connection with the 1995 premiership thanks mate - go back and look at your history.

I would like to say hi at this point in time. My signature particularly would like to say hi.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I would like to say hi at this point in time. My signature particularly would like to say hi.

Exactly well after 1995.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Exactly well after 1995.

The club's cheating subsequent to its last flag in 1995 has certainly tarnished the club's reputation but nothing is tied to '95.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Can you point me to a ‘draft expert’ who said Reid, Walter and McKercher would’ve gone #1? Having nothing else to celebrate I digested basically everything trade and draft for 6-weeks and never heard this assertion once. Who were these ‘draft experts’ you refer to saying these things?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Draft expert = random bf poster opinion

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Easily brisbane. Winning the premiership and getting the best player in the draft pool for a few junk picks is as big a win as it gets.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Well look at how sad it is when they don't cheat the past 25 years. I think we need to allow them some leeway to cheat a bit

Club with Mr Lucas Sayers as President is not going to not cheat Pistol.

 

[Pistol Night]

Club with Mr Lucas Sayers as President is not going to not cheat Pistol.

Yeah its like making Robbo CEO of CUB and him saying hes given up drinking

 

[Forward Press]

I do find it amusing watching several posters question the posts from an actual member of a club's drafting team - not a keyboard warrior, but a person that is employed by the West Coast Eagles to pick players in the draft. He has confirmed and verified this on the West Coast board, too.

He has access to far, far more info than us plebs do, and instead of us speculating which team wanted to do on the draft night, actually knows what each team was looking to do on draft night. I would believe him if he says a player had six concussions from 16 to 18 as he is paid to help gather and look at this info.

 

[blaisee]

I do find it amusing watching several posters question the posts from an actual member of a club's drafting team - not a keyboard warrior, but a person that is employed by the West Coast Eagles to pick players in the draft.

He has access to far, far more info than us plebs do, and instead of us speculating which team wanted to do on the draft night, actually knows what each team was looking to do on draft night.

Well the stuff about Trainor having 6 confirmed concussions is categorically untrue

 

[Forward Press]

Well the stuff about Trainor having 6 confirmed concussions is categorically untrue

Mate, WCE Phil knows far, far more than you or I about this stuff. Again, paid and employed by West Coast to assess the intel and make picks on draft night.

What's your source?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I do find it amusing watching several posters question the posts from an actual member of a club's drafting team - not a keyboard warrior, but a person that is employed by the West Coast Eagles to pick players in the draft. He has confirmed and verified this on the West Coast board, too.

He has access to far, far more info than us plebs do, and instead of us speculating which team wanted to do on the draft night, actually knows what each team was looking to do on draft night. I would believe him if he says a player had six concussions from 16 to 18 as he is paid to help gather and look at this info.

You underestimate the superiority complexes of flailing, panicking Richmond fans.