Drawdown to 35 List Players

[Crouch]

If we must get rid of 10;

Cuts:
David Mackay
Taylor Walker
Riley Knight
Myles Poholke
Ben Keays
Ben Crocker
Bryce Gibbs
Kyle Hartigan
Kieran Strachan
Andrew McPherson

 

[Mr Courageous]

So you can downgrade a new draftee on a 2 year initial contract to the rookie list after only 1 season?

I wasn't aware of that. Surely it would have to be mutually agreed?

Port did it last year with Grundy and Woodcock

Untried Power duo cut, but rookie lifelines loom

Boyd Woodcock and Riley Grundy have both been delisted by the Power

www.afl.com.au

On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mutineer]

Port did it last year with Grundy and Woodcock

Untried Power duo cut, but rookie lifelines loom

Boyd Woodcock and Riley Grundy have both been delisted by the Power

www.afl.com.au

On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Both were delisted first though and re-rookied by agreement.

Don't see us doing that with Gollant do you?

 

[Mr Courageous]

Both were delisted first though and re-rookied by agreement.

Don't see us doing that with Gollant do you?

No, I don’t think we would do it with Gollant. After watching him live at u/23 trial game against Port, he was one of the most impressive draftees considering I knew very little about him. I remember coming away from the game thinking there was something about him that was different to the others (leap, overheard marking and general athleticism).

I was just highlighting that players can be downgraded after only one year of their initial two year contract provided it was agreed upon by both parties. I thought that was the question being asked? it seems you knew that anyway

 

[DangerSloane]

3 players with broken bodies, cut them.

It's what the hawks would do

"its what the hawks would do"

What the hawks actually did: recruit a 31 year old always injured Brian Lake

 

[Mego Red]

So you can downgrade a new draftee on a 2 year initial contract to the rookie list after only 1 season?

I wasn't aware of that. Surely it would have to be mutually agreed?

You can't do anything yet - my assumption is they will need to use the rookie list as a tool to help them manage list sizes when they have more contracted players than main list spots. Contracted players have moved to the rookie list in the past, so it's an option.

 

[crows dude]

No, I don’t think we would do it with Gollant. After watching him live at u/23 trial game against Port, he was one of the most impressive draftees considering I knew very little about him. I remember coming away from the game thinking there was something about him that was different to the others (leap, overheard marking and general athleticism).

I was just highlighting that players can be downgraded after only one year of their initial two year contract provided it was agreed upon by both parties. I thought that was the question being asked? it seems you knew that anyway

They have to be delisted then re drafted in the rookie draft

 

[crows dude]

Yep, hence being slid to the rookie list. I think you'll see a few contracted players moving to rookie in the offseason - GCS have 41 signed players for 2021, I think.

You could keep him on the main list and move someone else to the rookie - it's really just an admin question.

You have to delist them first then re draft them in the rookie draft

 

[Mego Red]

Both were delisted first though and re-rookied by agreement.

Don't see us doing that with Gollant do you?

Well, who knows. It's not like the rookie list stops a player being developed or getting opportunities. Gallant was the last player drafted in 2019, which either makes it a smooth tansition or it's completely irrelevant.

I'm not arguing delisting the guy. I'm assuming that there will be too many contracted players to simply contract to 37 (or 35), so we would potentially look to move some to the rookie list.

 

[Mego Red]

You have to delist them first then re draft them in the rookie draft

Dude, I know what the rules HAVE been. I literally said:

I'm assuming all clubs will be able to move players from their main list to the rookie list - again, due to list management issues with contracts signed pre-COVID

There is going to need to be new mechanisms put in place for clubs to manage any unforeseen list reductions. We don't yet know what they'll be.

 

[Vhaluus]

"its what the hawks would do"

What the hawks actually did: recruit a 31 year old always injured Brian Lake

Because they were in a premiership window and it worked.

You can't honestly believe we're in a premiership window.

Look at what they did with their aged stars who DIDN'T have broken bodies once they decided they weren't in a premiership window.

That false equivalency is, to be frank, ridiculous.

 

[skam85]

Because they were in a premiership window and it worked.

You can't honestly believe we're in a premiership window.

Look at what they did with their aged stars who DIDN'T have broken bodies once they decided they weren't in a premiership window.

That false equivalency is, to be frank, ridiculous.

Brian Lake wasn't even 'always injured' either so it was a dumb comparison.

 

[1990crow]

I agree that 35 (0) is unlikely. More likely 38 (2) in 2021 then 36 (0) in 2022.

Adelaide currently have 44 listed players (including the one preseason rookie we did - can’t remember name but let’s say he’s out and we have 43). That means minimum another 3 have to go.

First rounder (Pick 3-8). Eg Hollands.
Brad Crouch compo (Pick 4-9). Eg Thilthorpe.
GWS first (Pick 12-18). Trade for Hately.
Dogs second (Pick 26-36). Luke Edwards.
Tariek Newchurch.
James Borlase? Wait and see on him I think.

So that’s Brad Crouch and 7 or 8 needing to be cut.

Out: B.Crouch, Knight, Keays, Poholke, Mackay, Himmelburg, Wilson, Strachan, Gibbs.
In: Hollands, Thilthorpe, Edwards, Newchurch, Borlase, Hately

In the firing line for delist end of 2021 (4 to go plus draftees so likely 7).
Walker, Davis, Galluci, Stengle, McAdam, Crocker, McPherson, Kelly, Murphy, Lynch, Gollant (depending on development)

 

[baldandbroke]

Wow I thought I was the Luke Brown pessimist. Agree will be useless as soon as he loses a yard of pace but I haven’t seen signs of that yet.

Regardless since he’s now contracted until the end of 2023 I doubt he is a delist candidate.

We hang on too long at the AFC. Someone would love him ... let him go.

 

[DangerSloane]

Because they were in a premiership window and it worked.

You can't honestly believe we're in a premiership window.

Look at what they did with their aged stars who DIDN'T have broken bodies once they decided they weren't in a premiership window.

That false equivalency is, to be frank, ridiculous.

And since then the hawks have had not one bit of success.
I'm sick of everyone raving about their strategy.
What did they end up gaining by throwing out club legends like Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis?
Hodge went and mentored an even younger side to the top 4.

Going back...they bottomed out, got a few guys who ended up being superstars and filled around them and won flags.
Its the most obvious, traditional route since the draft age.

You dont throw out guys like Daniel Talia until their use by date. The bloke was one of our best last year playing injured all season and its not like we have a bunch of super talented yuong defenders not getting game time.

 

[Vhaluus]

And since then the hawks have had not one bit of success.
I'm sick of everyone raving about their strategy.
What did they end up gaining by throwing out club legends like Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis?
Hodge went and mentored an even younger side to the top 4.

Going back...they bottomed out, got a few guys who ended up being superstars and filled around them and won flags.
Its the most obvious, traditional route since the draft age.

You dont throw out guys like Daniel Talia until their use by date. The bloke was one of our best last year playing injured all season and its not like we have a bunch of super talented yuong defenders not getting game time.

Yeah since their hugely successful period they've not had a single bit of success.

That's because they're in a rebuilding phase.

Seriously, you make 0 sense.

 

[Golumless]

I think list sizes are about right given reserve teams and injury cover. I think the TPP takes a haircut as well. Maybe for each list spot dropped its added to the rookie list. $50k base wage. I’m sure a fair portion of the 10 to be cut off each list would jump at a $50k rookie spot before having to enter the ordinary workforce. Especially in a depressed economy. I’d be cutting everywhere else before I look at the actual size of lists.

Pretty much. You get a few teams using more than 35 players a season, especially in a bad injury run. You could enact an expansion of the rookie list and a drop down of the main list though i.e. 45 players with 35 on the main list and 10 rookies as the base model.

 

[Mego Red]

Yeah since their hugely successful period they've not had a single bit of success.

That's because they're in a rebuilding phase.

Seriously, you make 0 sense.

Read his post.

They built through a couple of one sided trades - such as Jonathan Hay - and rebuilding at a time when priority picks were still handed out like candy. They built their team for premiership success through absolute traditional means - which is exactly what he said.

Cutting loose legends of the club has so far done nothing to help them achieve more success or helped with a rebuild. All three legends improved the clubs they went to, and Hawthorn got nothing for them.

 

[DangerSloane]

Brian Lake wasn't even 'always injured' either so it was a dumb comparison.

Rubbish. Lake was perenially injured.
He missed about 60 games in his 190 games at the bulldogs and missed 16 of a possible 70 games for the hawks.

For comparison - just to make you look stupid again - Daniel Talia has played less than 20 games in a season ONCE in his career since his first season (and that was 19 games).

Once again skam you're allergic to reality.

The more you post the dumber you get.

 

[DangerSloane]

Yeah since their hugely successful period they've not had a single bit of success.

That's because they're in a rebuilding phase.

Seriously, you make 0 sense.

Rebuilding phase?
They're still going down.

These guys left 4 years ago.

You know who would be good mentors for a rebuilding phase... gun leaders and premiership players.

If we had a 4 year rebuild and we were still going down you'd be storming the club with pitchforks.
So lets stop pretending the hawks have some 'strategy' that we should follow.

 

[Thetrader15]

We hang on too long at the AFC. Someone would love him ... let him go.

You can say that about a lot of our players. Sloane would have more market value than Brown and he is 2 years older, so we would be much better off trading him. Not to mention the salary cap space that would lead to

 

[Thetrader15]

And since then the hawks have had not one bit of success.
I'm sick of everyone raving about their strategy.
What did they end up gaining by throwing out club legends like Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis?
Hodge went and mentored an even younger side to the top 4.

Going back...they bottomed out, got a few guys who ended up being superstars and filled around them and won flags.
Its the most obvious, traditional route since the draft age.

You dont throw out guys like Daniel Talia until their use by date. The bloke was one of our best last year playing injured all season and its not like we have a bunch of super talented yuong defenders not getting game time.

So true.

The successful teams of the past 20 years have all gone with a few high end picks and then traded to fill some gaps.

Hawks - Franklin, Hodge, Roughead, Rioli, Lewis and top 12 picks, and they have Mitchell, Statton, Breust who were some nice later pick ups
Geelong - Corey, Bartel, Corey, Mackie, Selwood, Varcoe then add in FS for nothing (Scarlett, Ablett, Ablett, Blake, Hawkins) and some nice later picks (Johnson 24, Chapman 31, Ling 38, Enright 47)

Collingwood have probably gone against the grain the most, preferring to trade in players - Adams, Howe, Crisp, Jolly, Ball, Varcoe, Greenwood, Treloar while their otehr top players are mostly top 20 picks as well (Pendles, Sidebottom, Thomas) and FS for nothing (Cloke, Cloke, Shaw, Shaw)

 

[1970crow]

Agree, Brown is not going anywhere and Kelly won't either unless he is traded. He is a regular in our best 22 and still under contract.

When your best 22 is not a top 4 combatant you need to cut from that 22 in order to improve. If you don’t, you just stay where you are. This can’t touch a best 22 player culture is ingrained into the club itself and has infested the supporter base.

 

[Redline]

When your best 22 is not a top 4 combatant you need to cut from that 22 in order to improve. If you don’t, you just stay where you are. This can’t touch a best 22 player culture is ingrained into the club itself and has infested the supporter base.

I agree but reading some of the lists I think people are keeping players who are neither best 22 or ever going to develop into anything good.

 

[skam85]

Rubbish. Lake was perenially injured.
He missed about 60 games in his 190 games at the bulldogs and missed 16 of a possible 70 games for the hawks.

For comparison - just to make you look stupid again - Daniel Talia has played less than 20 games in a season ONCE in his career since his first season (and that was 19 games).

Once again skam you're allergic to reality.

The more you post the dumber you get.

You are a very amusing little man