Expansion Dreaming Out Loud: AFL’s Third WA Club (and Solving Gold Coast’s Issue)

[madmug]

"“West Perth Falcons” clashes well against “West Coast Eagles.”"

It could not possibly clash worse.

Perth Falcons, clashes with no-one.

 

[Big Animal]

Basil played for the West Perth Falcons. I find him hard enough to listen to currently. I don't think I could take him calling a new West Perth AFL team.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Perth United Royal Falcons
- composite side from West Perth, Perth Demons, East Perth WAFL sides

 

[Clems Knee]

The only possible way to get a third team in Western Australia is to split the West Coast Eagles into two teams.
Split the playing group into two (toss a coin to see which new team chooses their player first).
One team becomes the (East) Perth Eagles. The other becomes the West Coast Falcons. Make sure whoever keeps the blue and yellow colours loses the three premierships. The derbies would will be unreal.
If the identity of the West Coast Eagles is split evenly, Eagles supporters will also split approximately evenly, or better still, continue to support both teams. With so much of WA’s population being WC supporters I think it’s the only way there would be room for growth of a third team.

 

[GremioPower]

"“West Perth Falcons” clashes well against “West Coast Eagles.”"

It could not possibly clash worse.

West Perth Falcons
West Coast Eagles

Both names has three parts containing:

- Direction (West - West)
- Location (Perth - Coast)
- Bird (Falcons - Eagles)

They do clash pretty well, indeed. It would look like West Coast's name and monicker were inspired on West Perth.

P.S.: Having said that, were actually they?!

 

[GremioPower]

The only possible way to get a third team in Western Australia is to split the West Coast Eagles into two teams.
Split the playing group into two (toss a coin to see which new team chooses their player first).
One team becomes the (East) Perth Eagles. The other becomes the West Coast Falcons. Make sure whoever keeps the blue and yellow colours loses the three premierships. The derbies would will be unreal.
If the identity of the West Coast Eagles is split evenly, Eagles supporters will also split approximately evenly, or better still, continue to support both teams. With so much of WA’s population being WC supporters I think it’s the only way there would be room for growth of a third team.

The risk is having one fan base with no club, and two clubs with no fan base.

 

[GremioPower]

If it was at a different time it could have easily been Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne or at one stage even Hawthorn. But at that stage the AFL were pretty keen to expand at the expense of one Melbourne club.

And unnecessarily. They have called it a merger, when they basically stripped Fitzroy of its AFL license and gave it to the Brisbane Bears. We inherited the license from the Bears, which no longer need theirs because they got Fitzroy's.

If it were a merger, the new club would have two clubhouses and facilities - one in Brisbane, and other, in Melbourne; membership would be common; new administration would have people from both clubs; and so on. AFL could have actually tried that, instead of lying at people's faces (especially Fitzroy's people), as it seems to have been the case. Why not to try preserving the support Fitzroy already had in Melbourne? It could have failed, but, at least, there would have been an attempt to respect the Lions supporters in Melbourne.

 

[Roylion]

And unnecessarily. They have called it a merger, when they basically stripped Fitzroy of its AFL license and gave it to the Brisbane Bears. We inherited the license from the Bears, which no longer need theirs because they got Fitzroy's.

No that's incorrect. Brisbane Bears never lost their licence. The Brisbane Lions have the same licence as they did from 1987-1996, when the club was branded as the Bears.

If it were a merger, the new club would have two clubhouses and facilities - one in Brisbane, and other, in Melbourne; membership would be common; new administration would have people from both clubs; and so on.

The Brisbane Lions in 1997 had three Fitzroy people as directors...former Fitzroy player Laurie Serafini and former Fitzroy board members David Lucas and Ken Levy. Fitzroy did not have a home ground or any facilities of its own in 1996, despite long held plans to return to the Brunswick Street Oval as their training facility. Brisbane's Victorian membership went from about 80 to 3,200 in 1997.

AFL could have actually tried that, instead of lying at people's faces (especially Fitzroy's people), as it seems to have been the case. Why not to try preserving the support Fitzroy already had in Melbourne? It could have failed, but, at least, there would have been an attempt to respect the Lions supporters in Melbourne.

The Fitzroy board of directors did not want to merge with Brisbane Bears. Their preference was to merge with North Melbourne to form the North Fitzroy Kangaroos. However led by Richmond's president Leon Daphne, the North-Fitzroy merger was voted down by the club presidents. Fitzroy then lost its licence to compete in the AFL and the Brisbane Bears adopted Fitzroy's branding

 

[GremioPower]

No that's incorrect. Brisbane Bears never lost their licence. The Brisbane Lions have the same licence as they did from 1987-1996, when the club was branded as the Bears.



The Brisbane Lions in 1997 had three Fitzroy people as directors...former Fitzroy player Laurie Serafini and former Fitzroy board members David Lucas and Ken Levy. Fitzroy did not have a home ground or any facilities of its own in 1996, despite long held plans to return to the Brunswick Street Oval as their training facility. Brisbane's Victorian membership went from about 80 to 3,200 in 1997.



The Fitzroy board of directors did not want to merge with Brisbane Bears. Their preference was to merge with North Melbourne to form the North Fitzroy Kangaroos. However led by Richmond's president Leon Daphne, the North-Fitzroy merger was voted down by the club presidents. Fitzroy then lost its licence to compete in the AFL and the Brisbane Bears adopted Fitzroy's branding

Thanks. I didn't fact check it. I read about it a while ago, and I was writing by memory. No surprise I got it wrong.

Having said that, you all had no headquarters!?!?

On the license, I was half-joking. No concern with the technicallities. It was pure storytelling, since there is no more "Brisbane Bears," but the Lions are still playing in the AFL.

My main point remains, though, doesn't it? Fitzroy was killed unnecessarily. The merger could have been better.

 

[Roylion]

Having said that, you all had no headquarters!?!?

Fitzroy's home ground in 1996 was the Western Oval.

It was pure storytelling, since there is no more "Brisbane Bears," but the Lions are still playing in the AFL.

The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club.

My main point remains, though, doesn't it? Fitzroy was killed unnecessarily. The merger could have been better.

My point is that there wasn't a merger at all. The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club. Like Hawthorn used to be called the Mayblooms, before they became the Hawks.

 

[GremioPower]

Fitzroy's home ground in 1996 was the Western Oval.



The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club.



My point is that there wasn't a merger at all. The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club. Like Hawthorn used to be called the Mayblooms, before they became the Hawks.

The "merger," sorry!

P.S.: Where did the members meet? At the Oval?

 

[Roylion]

P.S.: Where did the members meet? At the Oval?

Dallas Brooks Hall for large meetings. Or sometimes the Fitzroy Town Hall, when available.

The Fitzroy Football Club Social club was at the "Fitzroy Club Hotel". (now the Albion Charles Hotel)

The Brisbane Lions offered to buy this club from Bondborough who conducted the hotel business at the Albion Charles Hotel (which was renamed the Fitzroy Club Hotel) during the period from 1992 to 1996 and set it up as the Brisbane Lions Victorian social club. When the directors of Bondborough refused, the adminstrator of Fitzroy took action against them. If the hotel was seen to be an asset of Fitzroy the it could be transferred to the Brisbane Lions as per the Deed of Arrangement signed by the Bears and the administrator of Fitzroy.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Not going to happen. There's nobody in Perth dying to see football who can't watch West Coast or Fremantle games.

 

[GremioPower]

Not going to happen. There's nobody in Perth dying to see football who can't watch West Coast or Fremant

Dallas Brooks Hall for large meetings. Or sometimes the Fitzroy Town Hall, when available.

The Fitzroy Football Club Social club was at the "Fitzroy Club Hotel". (now the Albion Charles Hotel)

The Brisbane Lions offered to buy this club from Bondborough who conducted the hotel business at the Albion Charles Hotel (which was renamed the Fitzroy Club Hotel) during the period from 1992 to 1996 and set it up as the Brisbane Lions Victorian social club. When the directors of Bondborough refused, the adminstrator of Fitzroy took action against them. If the hotel was seen to be an asset of Fitzroy the it could be transferred to the Brisbane Lions as per the Deed of Arrangement signed by the Bears and the administrator of Fitzroy.

Who has lead the merger from Fitzroy? What was the reasoning behind accepting the conditions?

Brisbane's claim seems fair. Why did they lose?

 

[Roylion]

Who has lead the merger from Fitzroy? What was the reasoning behind accepting the conditions?

Michael Brennan - the administrator... in conjunction with the AFL.

Brisbane's claim seems fair. Why did they lose?

Because the court found that the Hotel wasn't Fitzroy's asset.

 

[GremioPower]

Michael Brennan - the administrator... in conjunction with the AFL.



Because the court found that the Hotel wasn't Fitzroy's asset.

Mr. Brennan was elected? Was he a Fitzroy barracker?

Fitzroy used the hotel, but it wasn't the club's, is that it? For a "merger," Brisbane Lions didn't know much about Fitzroy, did it?

 

[Roylion]

Mr. Brennan was elected? Was he a Fitzroy barracker?

A secured creditor (Nauru Insurance Company) appointed an administrator to Fitzroy pursuant to Part 5.3A (436C) of the Corporations Act. [Note this Act is dated to 2001 as it was updated from previous legislation which existed in 1996]

5.3A 436A of the Corporations Act states that a Company may appoint an administrator if the board of that company thinks it is or will become insolvent. Part 5.3A 436B states that a Liquidator may appoint an administrator while Part 5.3A 436C states that a secured party may appoint an administrator. Note the bold of the last section because this is what happened to Fitzroy.

"A person who is entitled to enforce a security interest in the whole, or substantially the whole, of a company's property may by writing appoint an administrator of the company if the security interest has become, and is still, enforceable."

'Nauru Insurance Company' was Fitzroy’s primary (and only secured) creditor. It was they who appointed the administrator [Michael Brennan] to recover their debt (which wasn't due until 2001 incidentally). This in turn was because North Melbourne (at the instigation of the AFL) refused to release any more than $550,000 of the $1.25 million owed to Nauru from the merger monies of the $6 million that the AFL had promised in the event of two clubs merging into a new club. In this case it was going to be the 'North Fitzroy Kangaroos'. When Nauru heard this they determined to recover the full amount before any merger with North Melbourne could take place and their money was lost forever.

So on 25 July 1996, the creditors of the company (Fitzroy Football Club) resolved that Fitzroy should enter a Deed of Company Arrangement (instead of the creditor's other two choices permissable by the Corporations Act 2001 which was liquidation or ending the administration). On 4 August 1996 a deed was executed by Fitzroy (controlled by Michael Brennan as administrator) and the Brisbane Bears Football Club Ltd. In consideration of Brisbane Bears Football Club Ltd. agreeing to pay or procure the payment of various amounts mentioned in the deed, and to provide certain indemnities, Fitzroy agreed to transfer all its operations and activities as an AFL club (including its football operations) to the Brisbane Bears with effect from 1 November 1996.

As part of the Deed, Fitzroy (i.e the administrator) relinquished its licence to compete in the AFL competition. The AFL gave permission for all its AFL owned trademarks pertaining to Fitzroy to be used by the Brisbane Bears Football Club from Season 1997 onwards and this was ratified by 14 of the 16 clubs. The Brisbane Bears subseqently re-branded their club identity and continued in the AFL as the Brisbane Lions. Fitzroy Football Club left the competition after 100 years of participation.

Fitzroy Football Club remained in Melbourne, where after a period of time, the administrator returned control of the club to the elected directors and Fitzroy Football Club began rebuilding its club operations (totally independent of either the AFL or the Brisbane Bears / Lions). A registered charge was placed on the Fitzroy Football Club by the Brisbane Lions in respect to the monies the Brisbane Bears had paid Nauru out of the 'merger' monies but that was removed by Brisbane under the administration of Alan Piper.

The AFL could not force Fitzroy to merge or relocate within the structure of the AFL competition, no matter what it's financial situation, other than liquidation. What the AFL could do was (with the consent of the majority of the other clubs - two thirds in 1996 but 75% presently) to remove Fitzroy's licence to compete in the AFL competition. In the end the administrator of Fitzroy voluntarily surrendered Fitzroy's licence as part of the financial settlement. The other AFL clubs ratified that decision as described above.

Fitzroy used the hotel, but it wasn't the club's, is that it? For a "merger," Brisbane Lions didn't know much about Fitzroy, did it?

But why would they? That was the administrator's job to make clear to Brisbane what the financial situation was.

 

[GremioPower]

A secured creditor (Nauru Insurance Company) appointed an administrator to Fitzroy pursuant to Part 5.3A (436C) of the Corporations Act. [Note this Act is dated to 2001 as it was updated from previous legislation which existed in 1996]

5.3A 436A of the Corporations Act states that a Company may appoint an administrator if the board of that company thinks it is or will become insolvent. Part 5.3A 436B states that a Liquidator may appoint an administrator while Part 5.3A 436C states that a secured party may appoint an administrator. Note the bold of the last section because this is what happened to Fitzroy.

"A person who is entitled to enforce a security interest in the whole, or substantially the whole, of a company's property may by writing appoint an administrator of the company if the security interest has become, and is still, enforceable."

'Nauru Insurance Company' was Fitzroy’s primary (and only secured) creditor. It was they who appointed the administrator [Michael Brennan] to recover their debt (which wasn't due until 2001 incidentally). This in turn was because North Melbourne (at the instigation of the AFL) refused to release any more than $550,000 of the $1.25 million owed to Nauru from the merger monies of the $6 million that the AFL had promised in the event of two clubs merging into a new club. In this case it was going to be the 'North Fitzroy Kangaroos'. When Nauru heard this they determined to recover the full amount before any merger with North Melbourne could take place and their money was lost forever.

So on 25 July 1996, the creditors of the company (Fitzroy Football Club) resolved that Fitzroy should enter a Deed of Company Arrangement (instead of the creditor's other two choices permissable by the Corporations Act 2001 which was liquidation or ending the administration). On 4 August 1996 a deed was executed by Fitzroy (controlled by Michael Brennan as administrator) and the Brisbane Bears Football Club Ltd. In consideration of Brisbane Bears Football Club Ltd. agreeing to pay or procure the payment of various amounts mentioned in the deed, and to provide certain indemnities, Fitzroy agreed to transfer all its operations and activities as an AFL club (including its football operations) to the Brisbane Bears with effect from 1 November 1996.

As part of the Deed, Fitzroy (i.e the administrator) relinquished its licence to compete in the AFL competition. The AFL gave permission for all its AFL owned trademarks pertaining to Fitzroy to be used by the Brisbane Bears Football Club from Season 1997 onwards and this was ratified by 14 of the 16 clubs. The Brisbane Bears subseqently re-branded their club identity and continued in the AFL as the Brisbane Lions. Fitzroy Football Club left the competition after 100 years of participation.

Fitzroy Football Club remained in Melbourne, where after a period of time, the administrator returned control of the club to the elected directors and Fitzroy Football Club began rebuilding its club operations (totally independent of either the AFL or the Brisbane Bears / Lions). A registered charge was placed on the Fitzroy Football Club by the Brisbane Lions in respect to the monies the Brisbane Bears had paid Nauru out of the 'merger' monies but that was removed by Brisbane under the administration of Alan Piper.

The AFL could not force Fitzroy to merge or relocate within the structure of the AFL competition, no matter what it's financial situation, other than liquidation. What the AFL could do was (with the consent of the majority of the other clubs - two thirds in 1996 but 75% presently) to remove Fitzroy's licence to compete in the AFL competition. In the end the administrator of Fitzroy voluntarily surrendered Fitzroy's licence as part of the financial settlement. The other AFL clubs ratified that decision as described above.



But why would they? That was the administrator's job to make clear to Brisbane what the financial situation was.

Sad story. Ultimately, there was no merger, as I suspected. You all were expelled from the league, after being robbed of your identity. Cruel!

 

[Roylion]

Sad story. Ultimately, there was no merger, as I suspected. You all were expelled from the league, after being robbed of your identity. Cruel!

Fitzroy still exist in their own right in Melbourne, in our traditional guernsey, at our traditional ground, representing what they were founded to do, representing the suburb of Fitzroy in Melbourne football.

 

[GremioPower]

Fitzroy still exist in their own right in Melbourne, in our traditional guernsey, at our traditional ground, representing what they were founded to do, representing the suburb of Fitzroy in Melbourne football.

I know. You are the AFC Wimbledon of Australian football. You should be at least in the VFL.