Expansion Dreaming Out Loud: AFL’s Third WA Club (and Solving Gold Coast’s Issue)

[iBeng]

Its Dreaming Out Loud, Load makes it sound...dirty.

 

[GremioPower]

Its Dreaming Out Loud, Load makes it sound...dirty.

Typo... I swear I read "Loud" all the time. (I made the same typo on this post before correcting it!)

 

[madmug]

1) Competition and market size. It would obviously hurt WC and Freo, especially at the beginning, but the new club would have it tougher. However, Perth would have a size big enough to handle extra competion without killing the existing teams. West Perth joining the AFL would naturally divide the Metro area into three zones, leaving the Eagles still with the main part of it. Besides, a third WA club would allow teams from Perth to travel less than they currently do. It reduces some of the costs and the burden on the players. There would be a trade-off.

2) Tasmania would need a team playing half of its games in the North and half in the South. If it stats in one city, the other does not follow. Still, even like that, Tasmania would be a weaker market than Perth with three clubs. North and Hawks as the Tasmanian teams solves the issue of a small and divided market.

Besides, even though the roots would take time to grow, those clubs are already there. They should keep itensifying their presence there, making themselves more and more locals. On top of that, they should play a mandatory double, it should be marketed as the Tasmanian derby, and one derby should be held there at least once every year: Hobart Kangaroos v Launceston Hawks. (It would make much more sense if it were the other way around, but, alas!)

Victorian clubs can play as many games in Tassie as they like. At the end of the day FIFO clubs are just that. They play for pay, then they go HOME. They do SFA for the community & nothing for Tas football.

They are here to take, not to give. Its always been that way.

Its called self interest. Its the political reality of how the AFL operates. VFL history & clubs first. Everything else is to that end.

 

[GremioPower]

Victorian clubs can play as many games in Tassie as they like. At the end of the day FIFO clubs are just that. They play for pay, then they go HOME. They do SFA for the community & nothing for Tas football.

They are here to take, not to give. Its always been that way.

Its called self interest. Its the political reality of how the AFL operates. VFL history & clubs first. Everything else is to that end.

It is not self-interest at all. As odd as it may sound to some, there is more to gain engaging with others for the other's sake.

If one is not willing to become Tasmanian, any profit from such an endeavour will be short and end soon.

 

[madmug]

It is not self-interest at all. As odd as it may sound to some, there is more to gain engaging with others for the other's sake.

If one is not willing to become Tasmanian, any profit from such an endeavour will be short and end soon.

Well I think I know what you said, I think. Playing here for money is in Tasmania's best interest? Is that it?

I do agree that the politics of FIFO is becoming a little more sour every day. The recent move by CT brought it front & centre to the publics eye. The Hobart Hurricanes get far more TV attention than the AFL games put together do. Its worth more in media attention & the do far more in the community. Also the money they generate overwhelmingly stays in the state. It doesn't fly out after a game & help prop up non Tasmanian teams & economies.

The sooner this carpetbagging farce ends, the better for everyone. The Melbourne teams can play in their own community, as they should.

 

[longdonkey]

I guess once Hobart has the population to justify a local team that is the next place that will get a team. Not sure a relocated North Melbourne would be what they want. You'd think once the population of Hobart hits 500,000 then they should have a team of their own. Not sure what the current population is.

 

[Engimal v3]

I grow really tired of this line that I constantly see on BF from people that apparently don't know anything about Tasmania. This north/south divide is enormously overblown - the Hobart Hurricanes have proven that.

Spot on. The North/South divide exists today in beer choice, with Northerners drinking Boags and Southerners drinking Cascade. Aside from that, it does not exist and, as you said, the Hurricanes have massive support in Launceston.

The suggestion that the Kangaroos & Hawks could play a "Tasmanian" derby is offensive to Tasmanians. It assumes that they're idiots who won't realise they're being sold a pup.

You're very correct. Relocating teams works well in states or cities where there's little history or knowledge of the AFL. People from Sydney had no knowledge of South Melbourne, and those from Brisbane wouldn't have a clue who Fitzroy were (generally speaking, of course). However Tasmanians have been playing and following Australian rules football since near its inception, and there's a lot of people who will refuse to go to North/Hawthorn games down here because they know exactly who those clubs are.

 

[Billy ray]

BUt why would a 18-25 year old want to live in Tasmania? Dont go hateful to me - I love tassy and have since i was about 25 and went there and have been about 6-7 times since. I would live there now (42).
But would young draftees?

 

[madmug]

BUt why would a 18-25 year old want to live in Tasmania? Dont go hateful to me - I love tassy and have since i was about 25 and went there and have been about 6-7 times since. I would live there now (42).
But would young draftees?

Cricket 'draftees' / recruits come here to play first class cricket. Also others come & play grade cricket & try to get into 2ndX1 cricket in order to get noticed.

Its exactly whats happening now with young Tassie footballers going to the VFL & NEAFL to try to get noticed for the AFLs various drafts. Brody Mihocek worked hard in the VFL before getting a go. Jackson Bird was struggling to get noticed in NSW grade cricket, so he moved here.

Players will follow opportunity. Its only a plane flight to go home & visit mum when things get tough.

 

[magpienato]

BUt why would a 18-25 year old want to live in Tasmania? Dont go hateful to me - I love tassy and have since i was about 25 and went there and have been about 6-7 times since. I would live there now (42).
But would young draftees?

That's a fair point raised. Ultimately a player will go anywhere with the right kind of money, and if a Tassie team has a strong financial base then they will survive and thrive. I imagine the team would initially try to get as many home-state players as well as a couple from nearby in Victoria and will build off that. The Hobart Hurricanes have shown that a Tasmanian based team will have a good supporter base even when they are losing. I went to the Renegades vs. Hobart game and I was surprised to see how many of them traveled up for the game, a few hundreds I saw. It's up to the administration of the team to create a foundation that can retain and even lure in other players. That's just my 2 cents though.

 

[The_Reaper]

That's a fair point raised. Ultimately a player will go anywhere with the right kind of money, and if a Tassie team has a strong financial base then they will survive and thrive. I imagine the team would initially try to get as many home-state players as well as a couple from nearby in Victoria and will build off that. The Hobart Hurricanes have shown that a Tasmanian based team will have a good supporter base even when they are losing. I went to the Renegades vs. Hobart game and I was surprised to see how many of them traveled up for the game, a few hundreds I saw. It's up to the administration of the team to create a foundation that can retain and even lure in other players. That's just my 2 cents though.

I doubt they travelled. Melbourne would have a lot of expat Tasmanians.

 

[GremioPower]

Well I think I know what you said, I think. Playing here for money is in Tasmania's best interest? Is that it?

No. I have said the opposite. Clubs, if they don't play for the money, they end up with more money. In this case we are discussing, any club to succeed would need to become Tasmanian, be part of the community. Otherwise, it will only be a shortsighted money-grabbing effort.

 

[Coaster2012]

Cricket 'draftees' / recruits come here to play first class cricket. Also others come & play grade cricket & try to get into 2ndX1 cricket in order to get noticed.

Its exactly whats happening now with young Tassie footballers going to the VFL & NEAFL to try to get noticed for the AFLs various drafts. Brody Mihocek worked hard in the VFL before getting a go. Jackson Bird was struggling to get noticed in NSW grade cricket, so he moved here.

Players will follow opportunity. Its only a plane flight to go home & visit mum when things get tough.

It's only a plane ride from Perth to Melbourne too. In fact, isn't it a plane ride to go anywhere? In other words, Hobart may as well be the north pole.

 

[magpienato]

I doubt they travelled. Melbourne would have a lot of expat Tasmanians.

I had a chat to one of the supporters and I thought the same thing as you, that they were all Victorians but the blokes I was chatting to said they had just come up for the weekend and planned a bit of a holiday around going to the game. Now a lot of them, probably majority were Victorians but the fact that maybe a few hundred actually was arsed to fly over for the game shows some fan commitment that, even as a Renegades fan, I could never show.

 

[Established1870]

Yeah between the Tassie Devils when they existed and the Hurricanes it's fairly obvious this "North-South divide" thing is bull s**t.

On to the OP:

Only state club that could come into the AFL and not be a bludge would be Norwood, and they have as much hope as American Samoa when it comes to getting a team in the AFl.

 

[madmug]

It's only a plane ride from Perth to Melbourne too. In fact, isn't it a plane ride to go anywhere? In other words, Hobart may as well be the north pole.

I though as a 'clever' analogy you would have said the South Pole. It is in fact one flight away, as scientific flights travel from Hobart to Wilkins ice runway some 70km from Casey station. Its a 4.5hr flight.
Whereas the North Pole is clearly a number of flights away.
Anyway many would see my post as being a waste of time. But at least mine is reasonably precise & informative.
Thank you.

 

[Rob]

Cricket 'draftees' / recruits come here to play first class cricket. Also others come & play grade cricket & try to get into 2ndX1 cricket in order to get noticed.

Its exactly whats happening now with young Tassie footballers going to the VFL & NEAFL to try to get noticed for the AFLs various drafts. Brody Mihocek worked hard in the VFL before getting a go. Jackson Bird was struggling to get noticed in NSW grade cricket, so he moved here.

Players will follow opportunity. Its only a plane flight to go home & visit mum when things get tough.

Big difference between players voluntarily moving to Tassie for opportunity and AFL players forced to go there via the draft and subsequently chased by other clubs.

It's fair to accept that the go home factor is potentially a concern.

 

[nobbyiscool]

BUt why would a 18-25 year old want to live in Tasmania? Dont go hateful to me - I love tassy and have since i was about 25 and went there and have been about 6-7 times since. I would live there now (42).
But would young draftees?

I guess my only response to this is that players seem to be falling over themselves to play for Geelong. Yeah, it's only an hour from Melbourne - but it's on one of Australia's worst stretches of road, and Hobart is only an hour by plane (Launceston even less.) Geelong is every bit the sleepy hollow that Hobart is - possibly even moreso. Hobart seems to have become one of the trendy places to live.

(Some players even choose to move to Adelaide too )

 

[madmug]

Yeah between the Tassie Devils when they existed and the Hurricanes it's fairly obvious this "North-South divide" thing is bull s**t.

On to the OP:

Only state club that could come into the AFL and not be a bludge would be Norwood, and they have as much hope as American Samoa when it comes to getting a team in the AFl.

Yes its a pity the last AFL chairman was so ignorant about such things. Suggesting that was a factor in Tasmania not getting an AFL team of its own. I mean how stupid are people? You'd think if he knew he was that dumb, he'd keep his mouth shut so people wouldn't notice.

 

[Engimal v3]

BUt why would a 18-25 year old want to live in Tasmania? Dont go hateful to me - I love tassy and have since i was about 25 and went there and have been about 6-7 times since. I would live there now (42).
But would young draftees?

If you're an outdoorsy type, it's the best place in the country to live bar none. Snowy mountains, thick rainforests, amazing beaches, etc. Great camping and fishing. There'd definitely be an issue keeping those who can't survive outside of major cities, but (believe it or not), there are kids who enjoy the outdoors.

That's not to say I don't agree with you though, as a huge amount of draftees are from around Melbourne or regional Victoria and wouldn't have hobbies or appreciation for the outdoors. I think this is the #1 issue in Tasmania getting a side.

 

[mikey_san]

What about the The Port Shanghai Coal Powers?

They'd have to beat the Guangzhou Gamblers in a playoff (at the 'Bet Your Salary Stadium') every year to play in the league.

 

[TigerKnights]

GP, loved the OP and your commitment to the thread (very Cotchin finals 17' like). Big Ideas on BF who would have thought! And gees have you not brought out the hammer and sickle in some. Stay strong big man.

For mine, it was always more reasonable to relocate a Vic team to Ballarat (Bullies have begun) and Bendigo. Keep the club intact and just change the location name and where you play some games. Minimal disruption to the old guard, max growth potential.

Mergers are simply toxic in aussie rules. Even at suburban level, there has been some success but damn there is vitriol for it and that is because of how historically the club was created and run in my opinion. Having said that, for a 3rd club out of WA it might need to be merger of WAFL clubs which is essentially what Freo is.

Back in the SOS days when it looked like the tigs were gone and mergers were all the rage, (I am a 3rd gen tigger at this point) My old man would say "as long as they are tigers, wear a black guernsey with a yellow sash, and sing the song that will be enough, I will still follow them". For the Roy boys though this did not happen.

It was a hostile takeover by Anchorage Capiti... err sorry the Australian Football League. The weak and flea bitten pet of the AFL saw an old hound and thought old faithful could revive the feral Koala they created. If only they just simply asked (see told) the Roys to relocate and all else remains, folded the Bears outright. It may be more palatable than it is today.

FYI St Kilda is a saint. The patron saint of prostitution. Much like St Patrick has his 3 leaf clover for the sign of the holy trinity. St Kildas is the wooden spoon to represent the smackings they habitually get to keep their hand off it. (or on it, not sure which it is)

And Tassie should have team. The thought that an this state could not sustain a football team is laughable. All the obstacles Nth v Sth, population, business etc etc. Poor excuses from people who have not tried hard enough.

 

[The_Reaper]

GP, loved the OP and your commitment to the thread (very Cotchin finals 17' like). Big Ideas on BF who would have thought! And gees have you not brought out the hammer and sickle in some. Stay strong big man.

For mine, it was always more reasonable to relocate a Vic team to Ballarat (Bullies have begun) and Bendigo. Keep the club intact and just change the location name and where you play some games. Minimal disruption to the old guard, max growth potential.

Mergers are simply toxic in aussie rules. Even at suburban level, there has been some success but damn there is vitriol for it and that is because of how historically the club was created and run in my opinion. Having said that, for a 3rd club out of WA it might need to be merger of WAFL clubs which is essentially what Freo is.

Yeah nah.

 

[donkeypunchd]

The Falcons have the same club song as Melbourne, and I genuinely don't think they'd draw anywhere near the numbers you think. The worst attended WAFL GF of the last 4 years (I know, been to them all) was West Perth vs Subi in 2015. The crowd was low and even more so because both the Eagles & Hawks had played preliminary finals that weekend - hardcore WAFL fans are a tiny minority these days, and the only way you'd get a decent crowd on GF day is if one of the alignment clubs is playing or if you have a situation a la 2009 with the Black Ducks or Claremont making the granny for the first time in ages. The numbers just aren't there.

On the other hand if the AFL is serious about expansion, then I believe a team that splits its games between Karratha & Darwin would have a old chance of taking off. Would be the money to support a club the size of one of the Queensland outfits, and the area is genuine footy territory there would be a lot of local interest. Aligning the club with NT Thunder and allowing some form of zone/academy for youth development could help build local support for the club and hopefully give it a more authentic feel than a plastic franchise.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Agree. By my calculations we should have

14 WA teams
4 NT teams
3 SA teams
4 Qld teams
2 NSW teams
1 Vic team

By that logic the VFL would be back to it's original, Fitzroy and South Melbourne would start up again and the BIG 4 would truly be the BIG 4 again, oh wait.

Let me start again, By that logic the VFL would be back to it's original, Fitzroy and South Melbourne would start up again and the BIG 4 would truly be the BIG 3 again!

And of course the VFL would be the biggest, most attended, most payed and most televised league in the country again. Come full circle - that old chestnut