Drinking

[kfc1]

I don't really look down on people who don't drink... I mean, everyone makes their own choices. I just don't really understand it.

I understand not wanting to get drunk/drink excessively, but having the odd drink now and again is pretty harmless and serves a fairly useful social purpose (especially for men). Going out of one's way to abstain altogether mostly just seems bloody-minded/perverse.

I agree and I don't think that any of the responses have adequate address this - they all seem to be along the lines of "I don't need hangovers" or "my life is better without drinking every weekend". What is the reason for not having a couple of beers at a social function or with clients or workmates?

 

[gimp!]

Simply, im not following any trend or anything, I just believe in myself and what I need to do and what I dont need to do to remain happy. Alcohol isnt needed in my life, but if it works for you, then thats totally cool with me and not an issue. But looking down on someone like me because we dont want to spend our time drinking alcohol is pathetic, regardless of how accepted it is. It's not like I look down at people who drink, so I find that one-way street unfair.

See if you were at my workplace, myself and my fellow colleagues would be sipping scotch and talking about the banks, while at the same time looking down at you as you drank your glass of water.

 

[Roobs321]

I don't really look down on people who don't drink... I mean, everyone makes their own choices. I just don't really understand it.

I understand not wanting to get drunk/drink excessively, but having the odd drink now and again is pretty harmless and serves a fairly useful social purpose (especially for men). Going out of one's way to abstain altogether mostly just seems bloody-minded/perverse.

Sorry, I didnt mean that as an attack against you personally Caesar, I understood what you were trying to say about culture.

Well, when it comes down to it, it is really a drug of sorts, merely a luxury with no real nutritional benefit (although wine obviously has it's positives, this can be argued). I dont even drink soft drink anymore. I am happy to sit around and talk and laugh with drinking friends, but I dont feel the need to be drinking a beverage I rarely have at the same time. If I can have a great time without alcohol, why spend extra money just to please the attitudes of my drinking-friends? Poker can be similar to alcohol, a reason for social activity. Im not into poker or gambling either. What happened to talking to people without the need for all these rather lame distractions?

When it comes down to it, alcohol is a luxury item. And when it comes to luxury items, there are always some people that arent into it, just like with television, chocolate, video games, etc. Sure, alcohol can form a social activity, but there are many other social pastimes that dont involve alcohol. Alcohol drinking is an interest, and if a society looks down on someone for refusing a drink, then that society needs to wake up a bit.

I have found that not being into video games has kept me out of more social activities than drinking has. I get weirder looks for not liking video games compared to drinking.

 

[Roobs321]

I agree and I don't think that any of the responses have adequate address this - they all seem to be along the lines of "I don't need hangovers" or "my life is better without drinking every weekend". What is the reason for not having a couple of beers at a social function or with clients or workmates?

Well I would reply by saying what exactly is the reason for having a couple of beers at a social function, etc.
Why cant you partake in such an activity without the need to drink, and how does that change the focus of the social situation, to meet and talk to people.

Once again, dont have an issue with drinking, just think it's silly to look down on non-drinkers.

 

[Roobs321]

See if you were at my workplace, myself and my fellow colleagues would be sipping scotch and talking about the banks, while at the same time looking down at you as you drank your glass of water.

Alcohol, water, coffee, no drink at all, etc, what is really the difference in a social situation?

The difference is the alcohol drinkers will likely keep going back for more and more, whereas the others are fine with 1-2 drinks tops of whatever they might be having over a couple of hours. Which is realistic and makes sense.

 

[Caesar]

Well I would reply by saying what exactly is the reason for having a couple of beers at a social function, etc.
Why cant you partake in such an activity without the need to drink, and how does that change the focus of the social situation, to meet and talk to people.

Once again, dont have an issue with drinking, just think it's silly to look down on non-drinkers.

I think part of the reason that not drinking has the stigma it does is because when someone departs from readily-accepted social norms, people expect they have a good reason for doing so. I get your point about alcohol being a luxury, but it is a luxury that is fairly widespread and embedded in our society. It is 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'.

Since there is no real practical benefit to abstaining from alcohol altogether (as opposed to just drinking in strict moderation) then people tend to assume that people are doing so because they have particular moral views about alcohol. Its not helped by the fact that teetotalism has a history of being associated with moral judgement. So a lot of people feel like you are making an implicit statement about what you think of their choice when they invite you for a beer and you set yourself apart by saying "I don't drink".

Not saying it's necessarily right, but that's the perception.

 

[gimp!]

Alcohol, water, coffee, no drink at all, etc, what is really the difference in a social situation?

Because trust.

 

[kfc1]

I think part of the reason that not drinking has the stigma it does is because when someone departs from readily-accepted social norms, people expect they have a good reason for doing so. I get your point about alcohol being a luxury, but it is a luxury that is fairly widespread and embedded in our society. It is 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'.

Since there is no real practical benefit to abstaining from alcohol altogether (as opposed to just drinking in strict moderation) then people tend to assume that people are doing so because they have particular moral views about alcohol. Its not helped by the fact that teetotalism has a history of being associated with moral judgement. So a lot of people feel like you are making an implicit statement about what you think of their choice when they invite you for a beer and you set yourself apart by saying "I don't drink".

Not saying it's necessarily right, but that's the perception.

Exactly - it is essentially a "non-optional social convention" (to steal a line from Big Bang Theory) that there's no real reason to abstain from.

I don't think Australian society is at Wake in Fright levels of social drinking pressure anymore, in the most part, but unless you have very good reason (e.g. health, religion) from abstaining I think people struggle to understand why and question you.

 

[Suspense]

and how does that change the focus of the social situation, to meet and talk to people.

The focus doesn't change but the setting is altered dramatically with the more positive psychological effects associated with drinking alcohol, such as increased well-being, relaxation, lowered inhibitions and euphoria, being more conducive to meeting/talking people.

That's not to say that those who drink need this setting to be social or that those who don't drink can't fit into this setting either.

 

[Roobs321]

I think part of the reason that not drinking has the stigma it does is because when someone departs from readily-accepted social norms, people expect they have a good reason for doing so. I get your point about alcohol being a luxury, but it is a luxury that is fairly widespread and embedded in our society. It is 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'.

Since there is no real practical benefit to abstaining from alcohol altogether (as opposed to just drinking in strict moderation) then people tend to assume that people are doing so because they have particular moral views about alcohol. Its not helped by the fact that teetotalism has a history of being associated with moral judgement. So a lot of people feel like you are making an implicit statement about what you think of their choice when they invite you for a beer and you set yourself apart by saying "I don't drink".

Not saying it's necessarily right, but that's the perception.

I've always enjoyed your posting Caesar, yet again a great response

In many cultures, including the australian one, you are correct that it is stranger to opt out than in.
I think some non-drinkers prob do have that attitude (in the same way with coffee) that they are superior for not partaking. But personally I dont, it just doesnt work with my lifestyle, and as I said, man-made drinks that I cant make myself are rather alien to my lifestyle nowadays. Why do I have to be drinking any beverage at all to gain membership into these social situations?

I used to drink, but I decided it was one thing I would stop in my new life. I am fine with other people drinking, and I dont mind being in drinking situations, but I just dont see the point in it anymore. I guess I qualify as health-orientated, and alcohol was a luxury that I didnt mind giving up, like in red meat, but I couldnt give up chocolate

If I had some form of bias in this argument, it might be that if you are really happy in your life, why try and risk that by taking a type of drug that is largely used to make people happy. Im not trying to use this as saying im happier than others, but I am happy in my life, and for that reason see no particular benefit in taking some form of drug, even if it is just alcohol. Other happy people will continue to drink and take other drugs, but personally, I just really dont see the point, especially if I had to pay for it.

 

[kfc1]

Well I would reply by saying what exactly is the reason for having a couple of beers at a social function, etc.
Why cant you partake in such an activity without the need to drink, and how does that change the focus of the social situation, to meet and talk to people.

Once again, dont have an issue with drinking, just think it's silly to look down on non-drinkers.

You haven't really answered the question, which is: why do you feel the need to not participate in the social convention?

To answer your question - it doesn't change the focus of the social situation but people are naturally suspicious or questioning of someone who doesn't buy into the social norm. The principle is not too dissimilar to refusing to shake someone's hand - if you don't have a very good reason to not participate in it, people wonder why you don't.

I suppose it comes down to "what is so wrong with having a beer or two that you refuse the partake in a simple social convention"?

 

[Roobs321]

You haven't really answered the question, which is: why do you feel the need to not participate in the social convention?

To answer your question - it doesn't change the focus of the social situation but people are naturally suspicious or questioning of someone who doesn't buy into the social norm. The principle is not too dissimilar to refusing to shake someone's hand - if you don't have a very good reason to not participate in it, people wonder why you don't.

I suppose it comes down to "what is so wrong with having a beer or two that you refuse the partake in a simple social convention"?

I think this is a sad indictment on our society. Whether it is true or not, it really doesnt add up. And I dont feel the need to not participate, I am happy participating in the occasion, just dont feel the need to be drinking something at the same time. Why is this hard to understand?
I've been to work lunches and weddings without drinking, and thoroughly enjoyed myself. So why bother with alcohol when I dont have it in my life?

 

[Roobs321]

I suppose it comes down to "what is so wrong with having a beer or two that you refuse the partake in a simple social convention"?

Nothing is wrong with having a beer or two, and people that know me dont put me in a situation where I have to refuse alcohol (ie. no one is going to buy me an alcoholic present). If you are having a beer, and the other person is having a non-alcoholic drink or nothing at all (or eating), I dont see the big deal.

 

[Caesar]

Nothing is wrong with having a beer or two, and people that know me dont put me in a situation where I have to refuse alcohol (ie. no one is going to buy me an alcoholic present). If you are having a beer, and the other person is having a non-alcoholic drink or nothing at all (or eating), I dont see the big deal.

I do get where people who don't drink are coming from, because I am typically a fairly moderate drinker and I have worked in a couple of workplaces with a fairly heavy blokey/drinking culture that has caused me to (sometimes reluctantly) depart from my preferred behaviour for the sake of social nicety. I don't like feeling obligated to drink to excess when I don't want to.

Unfortunately, in those sorts of places, having a drink together is THE method of bonding. Beer is the great equaliser - whether you're the senior partner or the junior trainee, you can buy your round for the table and drink it together. Doesn't matter if you're on three quarters of a million or twenty thousand a year, you get pissed at roughly the same rate. And you're never really one of the guys until you've got drunk together and done or said something stupid that can be recounted by the others over later drinks.

Sure, if you don't drink you can still come along and sip your orange juice. But you will make everybody else feel uncomfortable, and just further accentuate the fact that you're not quite part of the group.

Is it stupid? Most definitely. I once made the mistake of leaving the pub halfway through a round, because I had work the next morning - completely innocuous, but I never heard the end of it. But it is, most certainly, a big deal. People who say that they can't see why it matters about whether they have an alcoholic drink in their hand or not are kind of misunderstanding the whole nature of the drinking culture, which is unfortunately pretty hard to avoid in Australia (and many other countries).

I do respect people who choose not to drink, but I have to confess that because of the attendant social disadvantages I would not stop drinking myself without an awfully good reason to do so. Even if I didn't particularly enjoy it (which I do).

 

[Roobs321]

The gender ratio in my workplace and among friends is 50:50, so that is possibly why I havent encountered as much non-drinker hate. It isnt blokey. Plus as a female I think it is slightly easier.

But in the military, there are times where you do feel a lot of social pressure to drink I guess, so I can understand that for some people in this thread in their particular social lifestyles, alcohol is unavoidable, that is cool.

 

[Caesar]

Plus as a female I think it is slightly easier.

From an outside perspective, I suspect this is true.

But in the military, there are times where you do feel a lot of social pressure to drink I guess, so I can understand that for some people in this thread in their particular social lifestyles, alcohol is unavoidable, that is cool.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's unavoidable, even in the 'blokeyest' of environments. More that if you're a non-drinker, you're starting from a point of disadvantage. You just have to work a bit harder for the same level of acceptance.

 

[Hairy Lager]

You haven't really answered the question, which is: why do you feel the need to not participate in the social convention?

To answer your question - it doesn't change the focus of the social situation but people are naturally suspicious or questioning of someone who doesn't buy into the social norm. The principle is not too dissimilar to refusing to shake someone's hand - if you don't have a very good reason to not participate in it, people wonder why you don't.

I suppose it comes down to "what is so wrong with having a beer or two that you refuse the partake in a simple social convention"?

People are insecure if you don't falsify your freindship to them at work, real or not, its just laugh worthy. Screw the norm, be yourself

 

[GOAUS!]

I don't drink, now i'm going to look at everyone suspiciously trying to figure out whether they're judging me for it or not.

Thanks guys

Some people may judge you for it but hey if they want to judge you harshly for it, so be it that's their opinion. Their respect level just goes down a bit.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Alcohol is good especially socially but drinking it too often is exhausting (even in small amounts nightly to me). If I'm at home by myself I prefer cannabis, much more relaxing.

I wonder how popular alcohol would be if all the other 'fun' drugs were legal.

 

[Caesar]

I think alcohol would still be pretty popular, because for most people intoxication is a secondary benefit of drinking.

 

[krisholio14]

I've always found it interesting that non drinkers are somewhat frowned upon in our society. Ive been off the grog a few times over the years, and people do look at you funny. Hasn't mattered what reason i've given either.

Perhaps they think i'm staying sober because i'm waiting to take advantage of them when they are munted?

I can tell you now, that's only the case when i'm playing poker

 

[NarniMagic]

I'm 18 in year 12, and love drinking/going out ect. I probably go clubbing once a fortnight mainly cos it's so damn expensive. I don't get hangovers which is lucky I suppose, means I am more inclined to get smashed. Usually a dozen drinks plus a few shots or spirits but feel awesome the next day (and sleep like a baby). I did get hangovers the first few times I drink and felt horrible, so I suppose if it ever gets to the point where my body can't handle it anymore, I would consider stopping.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

I enjoy a drink now and then, generally in a social situation where i feel compelled to follow the flock. Outside of those situations i very rarely drink, never for the sake of "getting munted".

A few years back i would drink with my friends to the point where we would all stick our fingers down our throat to take tactical vomits so we could drink more.

I think i had a bit of a revelation when i was at the tail end of an LSD trip in Paris. My girlfriend and I wandered into a McDonald's at 2 in the morning, and as McDonalds are in 2 in the morning, they were absolutely full of drunk skanks and seedy gentlemen. Something about the whole scene made me realise what a depressing and mind numbing drug alcohol can be.

 

[jacqui9]

I probably drink once or twice a year. Don't like the taste of the stuff, can't afford it and being little, I tend to be a bit of a lightweight. No one at my workplace gives a stuff. Whilst we all get along well, once 5 hits, we all go our separate ways. When I go out with friends, most of us stay on the softdrink. No biggie really.

 

[the fly]

I've only ever really been an occasional drinker. I'm a bit socially awkward, never get invited to head out drinking with anybody, and couldn't be bothered heading out on my own.