Drop Carrazzo thread

[WeninRome]

You are not making any sense buddy!
Quote 1 - you said you wanted him dropped

Since then I have been asking when you wanted this - I have subtly been trying to make the point that he has not warranted dropping - you have now made it clear that one week after he got BOG, you wanted to drop him

I suggest you never learnt the meaning of 'few' - check it out, I think you will find it could be any number from 2 - even say 100 depending on the context. Us oldies would never use it for 2 (couple) and mostly used it for 3-5

This is getting ridiculous but not as ridiculous as supporting a DROP A PLAYER thread the day after a good win

I would of posted this thread regardless of whether we won or lost, it's just how I have been feeling lately and wanted to raise it on bigfooty.

I thought we were allowed to be free of our own opinions here?

I don't think an argument about what is considered a few weeks is really relevant to the topic.

 

[The Coach]

Yes please.

We need more draft selections thanks when the next four drafts will be pillaged by the two new teams.

It's called list management and trading players who won't be in your best 22 when you want to be playing in finals in three years time.

Hawthorn and Collingwood did it, yet Carlton supporters want to hang onto players who might not play a part in your future.

When will we learn?

If we are only aiming at finals (NOT a GF) in 3 years and say a premiership in 5, then this could have some relevance to Trade Carrots (Is supposedly a Drop Carrots thread but the sidetrack is not your fault) as he will be 29 and we will have enuf elite 29yo like Juddy

Your premise is that we should trade anyone who will not be in our best 22 in 3 years time

A premiership team needs 25-28 players capable of playing a role on GF day as in all likelihood you will need depth to cover injuries

So if you are aiming for GF day in 3 years, which I would be, then I am reluctant to trade anyone that I believe could be in my best 25 in 3yrs time. I think we have a fair compliment of young uns right now and of course we will be getting more so I do not see the need for a massive clearance. I am open to offers of course but I still believe Carrots could be in the mix in 3 years and there is a few to clear this year before him in my book

My premise is if you think you nearly have the list for a tilt in 3 years DO NOT trade anyone who could be in your best 25 unless you are getting a dam good offer

We are of course not including long-term projects/prospects in our numbers

You have said might not play a part in our future and that could be nearly anyone as neither of us has a crystal ball - we have built a more than useful list in my opinion, it is definitly one KPP player short but overall it basically needs tweeking and continued good drafting with whatever our picks are. Drafting is an area that most teams can continue to get better at - you would be surprised at how few teams bother to even seek the opinion of premiership TAC coaches!

Maybe we only disagree on how far off we are?

 

[WeninRome]

If we are only aiming at finals (NOT a GF) in 3 years and say a premiership in 5, then this could have some relevance to Trade Carrots (Is supposedly a Drop Carrots thread but the sidetrack is not your fault) as he will be 29 and we will have enuf elite 29yo like Juddy

Your premise is that we should trade anyone who will not be in our best 22 in 3 years time

A premiership team needs 25-28 players capable of playing a role on GF day as in all likelihood you will need depth to cover injuries

So if you are aiming for GF day in 3 years, which I would be, then I am reluctant to trade anyone that I believe could be in my best 25 in 3yrs time. I think we have a fair compliment of young uns right now and of course we will be getting more so I do not see the need for a massive clearance. I am open to offers of course but I still believe Carrots could be in the mix in 3 years and there is a few to clear this year before him in my book

My premise is if you think you nearly have the list for a tilt in 3 years DO NOT trade anyone who could be in your best 25 unless you are getting a dam good offer

We are of course not including long-term projects/prospects in our numbers

You have said might not play a part in our future and that could be nearly anyone as neither of us has a crystal ball - we have built a more than useful list in my opinion, it is definitly one KPP player short but overall it basically needs tweeking and continued good drafting with whatever our picks are. Drafting is an area that most teams can continue to get better at - you would be surprised at how few teams bother to even seek the opinion of premiership TAC coaches!

Maybe we only disagree on how far off we are?

I complete agree with everything you have said five, and I usually always do. Your posts are relevant and too the point

What I would like to raise with you are a couple of things

A. Where do you see Carrots fitting into our team moving forward if he can fulfill his role as a backpocket?

B. If we were going to trade him, what you want?

C. Do you think he might be the sort of player that in a couple of years when we are really pushing for it, maybe holds us back or loses that crucial game due to his inability to hit targets and his slowness?

 

[The Coach]

I would of posted this thread regardless of whether we won or lost, it's just how I have been feeling lately and wanted to raise it on bigfooty.

I thought we were allowed to be free of our own opinions here?

I don't think an argument about what is considered a few weeks is really relevant to the topic.

Here is a crazy idea for you bj - let cruiser defend himself. If you are feeling guilty about starting the thread and want to take the strap for him, I don't give a sh1t

If you can read between the lines - the few was relevant to when he thought Carrots should be dropped. He said he wanted to drop him a few weeks ago .... I have this funny notion of giving a player a weeks grace if he was BOG a fortnight before and therefore wanted to know when a few was

You are perfectly free to express your opinions here - just as I am and I will continue to consider such a post the day after a fantastic win BLOODY STRANGE!

Probably would have been cooler with it if it started on a Thursday when we are all looking for new topics

 

[The Coach]

I complete agree with everything you have said five, and I usually always do. Your posts are relevant and too the point

What I would like to raise with you are a couple of things

A. Where do you see Carrots fitting into our team moving forward if he can fulfill his role as a backpocket?

B. If we were going to trade him, what you want?

C. Do you think he might be the sort of player that in a couple of years when we are really pushing for it, maybe holds us back or loses that crucial game due to his inability to hit targets and his slowness?

C first he is one of the most incorrectly maligned players when it comes to effective disposal %. You are right, as I have stated elsewhere, wherever he plays - to improve his game he has to run more

B to trade him I want a player as you are rarely going to get a first round ticket in the raffle nowadays - I think Travis Johnstone proved this. I will get back to you shortly on this

A I pretty much see him as Interchange. Don't laugh as I see this as a very important position and I think with more coaching he can provide excellent veratility off the bench. Nowadays everyone of the 22 has to play around 70% game time - so whether you start on ground is fairly irrelevant

 

[WeninRome]

Here is a crazy idea for you bj - let cruiser defend himself. If you are feeling guilty about starting the thread and want to take the strap for him, I don't give a sh1t

If you can read between the lines - the few was relevant to when he thought Carrots should be dropped. He said he wanted to drop him a few weeks ago .... I have this funny notion of giving a player a weeks grace if he was BOG a fortnight before and therefore wanted to know when a few was

You are perfectly free to express your opinions here - just as I am and I will continue to consider such a post the day after a fantastic win BLOODY STRANGE!

Probably would have been cooler with it if it started on a Thursday when we are all looking for new topics

I wasn't sticking up for him Five. I was just inferring that the argument you were both having was irrelevant to this thread.

I am not going to get into an argument with someone I don't know over an internet forum.

Sorry if I have disrupted your week five

 

[WeninRome]

C first he is one of the most incorrectly maligned players when it comes to effective disposal %. You are right, as I have stated elsewhere, wherever he plays - to improve his game he has to run more

B to trade him I want a player as you are rarely going to get a first round ticket in the raffle nowadays - I think Travis Johnstone proved this. I will get back to you shortly on this

A I pretty much see him as Interchange. Don't laugh as I see this as a very important position and I think with more coaching he can provide excellent veratility off the bench. Nowadays everyone of the 22 has to play around 70% game time - so whether you start on ground is fairly irrelevant

I actually really agree with your interchange point, I think he would be a good player to run off and on the bench in the future.

 

[The Coach]

What would I consier for him which I fancy would be in the realms of what we could get for him

Ted Richards
Troy Chaplin
Michael Johnson
Robert Warnock
Brad Miller

But you guys would know better than me as nowadays I am guilty of not watching many Non-Carlton games

 

[WeninRome]

What would I consier for him which I fancy would be in the realms of what we could get for him

Ted Richards
Troy Chaplin
Michael Johnson
Robert Warnock
Brad Miller

But you guys would know better than me as nowadays I am guilty of not watching many Non-Carlton games

I don't rate miller at all

Chaplin would be the one I would be targeting, another tall key position running defender. Releasing Waite into the forward line

 

[The Coach]

Sorry if I have disrupted your week five

lol No Way - can't you tell I love an argument

Will be disappointed if TheGeneral does not wrestle with me

 

[WeninRome]

lol No Way - can't you tell I love an argument

Will be disappointed if TheGeneral does not wrestle with me

Yeah I know, I just don't see the point in getting worked up over an internet forum haha.

I'm not here to make enemies.

Your comment about Carrots as a bench player has altered my thoughts a bit I must admit

 

[Bentick's My Man.]

Carrazzo played alright against the Power on Sunday, not his best but still good, I think he will take a while to get used to his new role down back with the inclusions of Stevens and Judd into our midfield in 2008. His disposal isn't as bad as people make it out to be but he isn't quick but also isn't a slow man either.

 

[The Coach]

Yeah I know, I just don't see the point in getting worked up over an internet forum haha.

I'm not here to make enemies.

Your comment about Carrots as a bench player has altered my thoughts a bit I must admit

Could be one of a few things (Sorry, could not resist it)

- I will be on Andrew Denton's next series of Grumpy Old Men

- I am overprotective of My Boys

- Everything or Nothing is worth getting worked up over. I will go with the former: Let's Be Passionate

- I agree that We should not be making enemies with fellow Carlton supporters but I am not really sure if I care if I do (where did that Passion go)

- By rambling on like this, I can send myself the following Clip, which has excellent prospects for seeing the bottom drop out of this thread (have been looking for an opportunity to use it and can't wait any longer)

I cant believe the sh!t I find in ClipArt Land

 

[WeninRome]

Could be one of a few things (Sorry, could not resist it)

- I will be on Andrew Denton's next series of Grumpy Old Men

- I am overprotective of My Boys

- Everything or Nothing is worth getting worked up over. I will go with the former: Let's Be Passionate

- I agree that We should not be making enemies with fellow Carlton supporters but I am not really sure if I care if I do (where did that Passion go)

- By rambling on like this, I can send myself the following Clip, which has excellent prospects for seeing the bottom drop out of this thread (have been looking for an opportunity to use it and can't wait any longer)

I cant believe the sh!t I find in ClipArt Land

ahaha gold, lots of time on your hands?

 

[NavyGuns_2008]

Can't drop Carrots, he is a ball magnet and his skills are ok, someone just needs to remind him which way we are kicking because he goes backwards so often. He gets himself into trouble looking to over-create the play, just leave him in a shut down role down back and tell him to look for his first option.

 

[krayfesh]

Drop someone who gets the ball 25 times a match in a high possesion style team?

He'll be a relatively good stopper, given the time to practise his craft.

But until then, I'd want him in the team forever as long as he keeps getting the ball.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure if we have the ball, than the opposition don't. And that's good.

Oh, but I'd like it if he wouldn't rainbow his kicks.

 

[Silvagnis]

Drop someone who gets the ball 25 times a match in a high possesion style team?

He'll be a relatively good stopper, given the time to practise his craft.

But until then, I'd want him in the team forever as long as he keeps getting the ball.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure if we have the ball, than the opposition don't. And that's good.

Oh, but I'd like it if he wouldn't rainbow his kicks.

Gray beat him to the ball in the wet, yet he isn't as quick as a Davis or Betts.

Don't look at possessions, but what they do with them and where they win them.

Grigg totally blanketed H.Shaw in round four, yet he had 25 possessions and no influence on the match.

Camporeale was the same at Carlton post 2002 and used to rack up touches by receiving the ball.

It isn't hard to get 25 touches in today's game when you're playing back pocket and the ball is in your forwardline a lot.

Judd and Stevens can win a game with fewer touches because they use the ball well.

Carrazzo is a ball magnet with ordinary skills and decision making if you saw him handpass to Setanta and not clear the ball himself. The inexperienced Setanta shouldn't be given the ball in that situation and forced to run it out before turning it over. Carrazzo made that decision because he has no confidence in his ability to hit a target and stops and props before looking for a target.

He hasn't improved his disposal since he started his career as a backpocket, yet he's gone full circle and is playing back pocket again after winning the B & F.

Carrazzo doesn't even take them on and kick with as much penetration as Armfield.

He needs a big game this week when Armfield, Browne, Walker and Anderson will be up and running in the next month.

 

[one eyed bluey]

haha, I love it, another thread saying don't worry, we have Ando. So funny lol Let's just trade Carrazzo and Scotland, its ok we have Ando!

for starters I never said anything about trading scotland, his a quality player but still i dont think his best position is in the backline....his a midfielder ffs

Anyway, back on topic about carrazzo, I said I would only trade him for something of value, someone who can really add to our team.
For example, if we traded carrazzo for roughhead/miller or a relatively high draft pick which can solve our CHF problem, a key defender to release waite, or even another small/medium dangerous forward which is something we lack.

I reckon we can more than cover carrazzo, Browne and Armfield look pretty good prospects to me....unfortunately I dont think we would get much for him anyway

 

[Mr Sparkle75]

Drop someone who gets the ball 25 times a match in a high possesion style team?

He'll be a relatively good stopper, given the time to practise his craft.

But until then, I'd want him in the team forever as long as he keeps getting the ball.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure if we have the ball, than the opposition don't. And that's good.

Oh, but I'd like it if he wouldn't rainbow his kicks.

That gave me a bit of a laugh, i cringe whenever i see crapazzo lining up in the middle.

 

[The Coach]

Gray beat him to the ball in the wet, yet he isn't as quick as a Davis or Betts.

Don't look at possessions, but what they do with them and where they win them.

Grigg totally blanketed H.Shaw in round four, yet he had 25 possessions and no influence on the match.

Camporeale was the same at Carlton post 2002 and used to rack up touches by receiving the ball.

It isn't hard to get 25 touches in today's game when you're playing back pocket and the ball is in your forwardline a lot.

Judd and Stevens can win a game with fewer touches because they use the ball well.

Carrazzo is a ball magnet with ordinary skills and decision making if you saw him handpass to Setanta and not clear the ball himself. The inexperienced Setanta shouldn't be given the ball in that situation and forced to run it out before turning it over. Carrazzo made that decision because he has no confidence in his ability to hit a target and stops and props before looking for a target.

He hasn't improved his disposal since he started his career as a backpocket, yet he's gone full circle and is playing back pocket again after winning the B & F.

Carrazzo doesn't even take them on and kick with as much penetration as Armfield.

He needs a big game this week when Armfield, Browne, Walker and Anderson will be up and running in the next month.

I wrote about this elsewhere - this is one of the last passages of play one should ever use to bag Carrots

Carrots came to the rescue of Gibbsy (I think) and although he was facing the wrong way and was not calling for it - provided an out for our man under pressure. Always going to be under pressure himself, he handballed back to Carlos (facing the right way), who should had greater awareness - if Carlos kicks we are clear but he turned back to his right and was nabbed.

Players cannot be making adjustments to their game based on the experience of teamates in those situations - that would require some major stopping and propping (Carlos has been playing well, I would like to add)

You are way off the mark if you are using this as an example of stopping and propping as he gave it off straight away (had to as he was set up)

Lack of confidence is not Carrots problem - quite the opposite IMO, he seems to think he can do anything (mind you neither of us really know how he is thinking/feeling) and I would rather that in a player

 

[BlueWorld]

Just like Carrazzo has a position in the team in the back pocket, clearing the ball from defense.

Don't like it? Take it up with Brett Ratten instead of b*tching about it on an internet forum.

No that's only become his position since Houlihan's been out to cover for him. Before then he was playing midfield but we needed someone to play back pocket once houlihan got injured and we all know he's had to play that role as we have no one else.

 

[The Coach]

No that's only become his position since Houlihan's been out to cover for him. Before then he was playing midfield but we needed someone to play back pocket once houlihan got injured and we all know he's had to play that role as we have no one else.

I do not think that is the only reason he is down back as Browne and Armfield have also been added as small defenders

 

[BlueWorld]

I do not think that is the only reason he is down back as Browne and Armfield have also been added as smaldefenders

Not any more and Arnfield has only played last 2 games. We couldn't possibly need 3 small defenders anwyay. I think I'd know who houlihan usually plays on and Carrazzo has had him every week.

 

[The Coach]

Not any more and Arnfield has only played last 2 games. We couldn't possibly need 3 small defenders anwyay. I think I'd know who houlihan usually plays on and Carrazzo has had him every week.

BW stop putting spelling errors in my quotes - you will give a bloke a bad name
If you have been able to predict perfectly who Hoops would have played on for the last 8 weeks - what chance you give us the Oz lotto numbers

 

[BlueWorld]

BW stop putting spelling errors in my quotes - you will give a bloke a bad name
If you have been able to predict perfectly who Hoops would have played on for the last 8 weeks - what chance you give us the Oz lotto numbers

Read my post. I said who he usually plays on. We will obviously never know who he would have played on so it's all academic. The simple fact is Carrazzo was playing midfield until he got injured and was then given his role down back on one of the small forwards. Carrazzo played back pocked until 2006 but had some poor performances and was taken away from that role. He got a chance to play midfield once Stevens got injured last year.

No idea how the quote got misspelled. Sorry!