Drop in pitches: are they counter productive???

[philreich]

I have a fair idea what will happen this summer - our batsmen will make truck loads of runs on our own drop in pitches, which will do nothing to fix our woes in overseas conditions. I can see what Cricket Australia is trying to do: produce roads to ensure Test matches go the full 5 days, and thereby maximise attendances for the summer.

But favourable batting conditions at home do nothing to help us on English green tops, and neither do they aid us is confronting our biggest demon - quality spin bowling on the subcontinent. So winning the Ashes in England, and triumphing away to India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka may remain a pipe dream until our batsmen are subjected to similar conditions at home.

Thoughts?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yes. Simple question. Still very docile to bat on which doesn't help our batsmen.

 

[philreich]

Yes. Simple question. Still very docile to bat on which doesn't help our batsmen.

So what will convince the brains in Cricket Australia that their approach is wrong - 5 consecutive humiliations in England???

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Bland pitches are a problem, but that is true whether drop-in or not. I'm not sure drop-ins are an issue any more, the knowledge of how to prepare them has advanced considerably.

CA wanting games to go the distance for Nine's benefit are a bigger problem - and wanting to win at home (away doesn't matter, nobody sees those games).

 

[Ciderhound]

Yes. Simple question. Still very docile to bat on which doesn't help our batsmen.

One of the key reasons australian batsmen cannot handle any movement on the deck and through the air is our insistence on having these lifeless decks for oz test matches.

The sooner they revert back to traditional wickets Australian cricket will improve out of sight.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The sooner they revert back to traditional wickets Australian cricket will improve out of sight.

Won't happen. Football controls some of our major venues.

 

[Topkent]

Most of the 5 day tests are boring anyway, smith Voges and Burns average 80 for the summer against some poor Indian team and then can't make double figures overseas
I'd rather watch ball dominate bat where every run is earned... not australia declaring on 600 every game because the pitch is a road

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Most of the 5 day tests are boring anyway, smith Voges and Burns average 80 for the summer against some poor Indian team and then can't make double figures overseas
I'd rather watch ball dominate bat where every run is earned... not australia declaring on 600 every game because the pitch is a road

Sure. But its not about that. Its about how often Nine have to refund advertisers because for days four and five there are 1950s movies on instead of the cricket that was paid for.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Are you forgetting a few years ago CA did exactly what you blokes are asking. Shield pitches were spiced up, our batsmen couldn't handle it and people whinged that the pitches needed to be flattened out so our batsmen could learn to build an innings. My opinion is that our blokes of the present generation are low on talent and technique and that is the biggest issue

 

[Damon_3388]

I don't understand why drop-in pitches can't be doctored to play a particular way, just like a regular pitch can. If we want one that spins or has more grass on it, just tailor it to suit. I mean, isn't that half the point of a drop in, to make a bespoke, quality pitch?

Whether CA actually want pitches with spin or movement is another thing entirely, but in theory, it should be possible to "create" them.

 

[The_Reaper]

Won't happen. Football controls some of our major venues.

Yet magically they could produce a green wicket for the day/night test.

They're capable of doing it if they actually want to.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yet magically they could produce a green wicket for the day/night test.

They're capable of doing it if they actually want to.

Maybe the AO is just better. MCG has been docile for a while. Not sure grass would make massive differences.

 

[The_Reaper]

Maybe the AO is just better. MCG has been docile for a while. Not sure grass would make massive differences.

Or maybe when money is involved and they suddenly need grass on the wicket to make sure the day/nighter isn't a farce they're able to do it.

Drop ins wouldn't explain the WACA and the Gabba

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Won't happen. Football controls some of our major venues.

WACA, Gabba, SCG and Bellerive don't have drop in pitches as far as I know. Should be no reason that they can't get these pitches back to their former diverse greatness.

MCG and Adelaide Oval do. I think the curators are getting better though. At Adelaide against India the pitch broke up and Lyon took a bunch of wickets on the last day. Was fantastic. Last year they left more grass on for the pink ball and it offered something different. Agree they need to have a bit of character to them.

 

[The_Reaper]

WACA, Gabba, SCG and Bellerive don't have drop in pitches as far as I know. Should be no reason that they can't get these pitches back to their former diverse greatness.

MCG and Adelaide Oval do. I think the curators are getting better though. At Adelaide against India the pitch broke up and Lyon took a bunch of wickets on the last day. Was fantastic. Last year they left more grass on for the pink ball and it offered something different. Agree they need to have a bit of character to them.

It basically sure the curators are capable of producing the wickets if they want to/are allowed to

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It basically sure the curators are capable of producing the wickets if they want to/are allowed to

The MCG has had the drop in for years and should know how to prepare a quality wicket by now.

Adelaide Oval has only had three summers I think and speaking to the curator he said it has taken a lot of experimenting and trial and error to get their process right. How much to water, when to water, when to start preparing, how much grass, how much rolling, use of heat pads, effect of different weather. Lots of variables and a pitch is a living breathing thing after all. He said that the biggest difference he has found is that because each wicket is in a metal tray the soil doesn't have anywhere to go. Usually the soil spreads out over time and pitches loses their spring and compactness as the match goes on. That's why they break up and turn / start playing a bit up and down. With drop-ins the soil can't spread out so the pitch stays very similar throughout.

That article someone posted a week or so ago was pretty damning. It was the one from 6 or 7 years ago where CA were directing curators about the type of pitches they should prepare. Greg Shipperd (I think Vic coach at the time) made a fair point though that some states were preparing juiced up wickets to make sure there were outright results. Must be difficult for the curators - the state associations obviously want to win and they are the ones who pay their wages. Do they need to be independent of the state bodies?

 

[The_Reaper]

The MCG has had the drop in for years and should know how to prepare a quality wicket by now.

Adelaide Oval has only had three summers I think and speaking to the curator he said it has taken a lot of experimenting and trial and error to get their process right. How much to water, when to water, when to start preparing, how much grass, how much rolling, use of heat pads, effect of different weather. Lots of variables and a pitch is a living breathing thing after all. He said that the biggest difference he has found is that because each wicket is in a metal tray the soil doesn't have anywhere to go. Usually the soil spreads out over time and pitches loses their spring and compactness as the match goes on. That's why they break up and turn / start playing a bit up and down. With drop-ins the soil can't spread out so the pitch stays very similar throughout.

That article someone posted a week or so ago was pretty damning. It was the one from 6 or 7 years ago where CA were directing curators about the type of pitches they should prepare. Greg Shipperd (I think Vic coach at the time) made a fair point though that some states were preparing juiced up wickets to make sure there were outright results. Must be difficult for the curators - the state associations obviously want to win and they are the ones who pay their wages. Do they need to be independent of the state bodies?

It was about 2-3 years ago with Tassie the main offenders - hence Faulkner's bowling average.

Cricket Australia forced them to get away with that.

 

[gbatman]

Our batsmen are losing the ability to play attacking shots off the back foot because these fast pitches allow the batsmen to come forward and make big scores just driving everything. The slower pitches you get in the sub continent, you need to be good off the back foot and it's a lot more important getting on the right foot and our blokes get found out on the wrong foot. Oh and England swings and cuts a lot more and instead of bouncing and getting out batsmen with pace we have to pitch it up with control and bowl cutters which we didn't quite do. Also our playing of swing bowling wasn't great because we just don't see it enough.

All teams are tough to beat at home because all conditions are different. Only thing with us is we don't look to even be a chance when we play away. Perhaps we just aren't good enough. Use the duke ball and green up and slow down out shield wickets a bit and see what happens perhaps.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Our batsmen are losing the ability to play attacking shots off the back foot because these fast pitches allow the batsmen to come forward and make big scores just driving everything. The slower pitches you get in the sub continent, you need to be good off the back foot and it's a lot more important getting on the right foot and our blokes get found out on the wrong foot. Oh and England swings and cuts a lot more and instead of bouncing and getting out batsmen with pace we have to pitch it up with control and bowl cutters which we didn't quite do. Also our playing of swing bowling wasn't great because we just don't see it enough.

All teams are tough to beat at home because all conditions are different. Only thing with us is we don't look to even be a chance when we play away. Perhaps we just aren't good enough. Use the duke ball and green up and slow down out shield wickets a bit and see what happens perhaps.

I'm so sick of hearing about using the Dukes ball. It will not react in the same manner in Australia as it does in England. I've said this before...we didn't have an issue beating England in England for 20 odd years. We had a talented team and batsmen and bowlers who had good techniques and the ability to adapt. We currently have a team full of players with limited skill sets and have proven that they can't adapt.

 

[The_Reaper]

Our batsmen are losing the ability to play attacking shots off the back foot because these fast pitches allow the batsmen to come forward and make big scores just driving everything. The slower pitches you get in the sub continent, you need to be good off the back foot and it's a lot more important getting on the right foot and our blokes get found out on the wrong foot. Oh and England swings and cuts a lot more and instead of bouncing and getting out batsmen with pace we have to pitch it up with control and bowl cutters which we didn't quite do. Also our playing of swing bowling wasn't great because we just don't see it enough.

All teams are tough to beat at home because all conditions are different. Only thing with us is we don't look to even be a chance when we play away. Perhaps we just aren't good enough. Use the duke ball and green up and slow down out shield wickets a bit and see what happens perhaps.

We does everyone suggest the Duke and not the SG ball?

 

[ROOTA#6]

We does everyone suggest the Duke and not the SG ball?

Because the Dukes ball is the evil weapon the poms use to embarrass us with swing and it seems to be all that they are worried about. The simple fact is if it doesn't go dead straight our blokes can't play it no matter who made the bloody thing

 

[gbatman]

I'm so sick of hearing about using the Dukes ball. It will not react in the same manner in Australia as it does in England. I've said this before...we didn't have an issue beating England in England for 20 odd years. We had a talented team and batsmen and bowlers who had good techniques and the ability to adapt. We currently have a team full of players with limited skill sets and have proven that they can't adapt.

I was thinking the same thing that the Dukes ball wouldn't behave the same over here. England tends to be cooler in cricket season but more humid plus there wickets probably have more water in them. Either way we may as well try it. I think our wickets have become too different from other countries. The SCG used to resemble some wickets you get in England but now is just like the others. Adelaide and Melbourne as well but now they are just hard and relatively flat. Though from what I saw of the day night test, the ball swung and moved around a little in the last session which is promising.

 

[iluvparis]

England more humid than Australia - u wot m8?

 

[Doodlesweaver]

England more humid than Australia - u wot m8?

England is as humid as hell during summer. Or at least London is. You feel like you can wring out the air.

Though, I'm from Perth so I'm more used to a very dry atmosphere.

 

[gbatman]

England more humid than Australia - u wot m8?

I've been in London when it was around 30 odd degrees, it's humid, it's not a dry heat like you get in Southern Australia. Higher rainfall, higher soil moisture content than Australia which more often than not is bone dry most of summer. Soil moisture is generally what generates humidity and swing, that and cloud cover, another thing that's rarer in Australia's summers.