Dropping Players

[Vader]

It seems evident that the club has no intentions of dropping anyone unless they're injured, are named Taylor Walker, or have less than 10 games experience. However, I'm curious to know what our lounge room selectors would do if in charge of the Crows list.

We can probably divide our current 22 into the following categories:

• Carrying a known injury (eg Thompson, Tippett)
• Severely lacking in match fitness due to previous time on the sidelines with injury (eg Porplyzia, Knights)
• Lacking in Form (eg Petrenko)
• Failing to perform to expected standards (eg Doughty, Edwards)
• Fit and performing to expected standards (eg Reilly, Rutten, McLeod)

We currently have limited flexibility in the changes we can make, given our lengthy injury list. Players available (who played in the SANFL over the weekend) are: Walker, Young, Gunston, McKernan, Griffin, Craig, Talia, Armstrong and Jaensch.

Which of the above groups would be the first you'd omit players from? Which players could/should we drop and who could/should replace them, noting that the idea is to actually improve our side (and not just give the kids a run)?

 

[neddy36]

What about Neil Craig's policy of not gifting young players games just for the sake of it, rather than them earning their position. He has come out and said something around these lines often in the past few years.

Ok Neil, how many games have been gifted to "experienced" players in the past few weeks?

 

[sydney_crow]

Thanks Vader - nice thread.

To start with I think the idea is to improve the side in Round 1, 2011 as opposed to Rds 6-22 this year (as the reality is we're not going to make the finals).

With that construct in mind I'd be looking to give opportunities to players whom we think could be part of our 2011 side and making room for them from the following categories (in order):

• Lacking in Form (Petrenko)
• Not playing to expectations (Doughty, Burton, Edwards)
• Carrying an injury (only if it becomes untenable - Tippett looked ok Fri night)

So the changes I'd look to make are:

Out - Petrenko, Doughty, Burton, Edwards, Thompson/Tippett (depending on injury)
In - Walker, McKernan, Jaensch, Craig, Armstrong, Young, Talia, Gunston

They shouldn't be all at once obviously but over the course of the remaining rounds to put a premium on development of talent for next year.

That said this could be a moot point given NC's comments last night.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Well written Prideof... I agree.
I would only add that if a player is injured AND down on form get rid of him.

Its a hard call but lighter training loads (for someone carrying a niggling)wouldnt help a player down on form pick up confidence.

 

[Allefgib]

Dogga Edwards Porps to take a step down for a minimum of 2 weeks.

Jaensch Walker McKernan in.

Anyone coming in to get 2 games minimum and not the '1-game' like Young did. Give the person a chance to redeem himself, feel the burn of 'failure' and come out ready to rectify it the next week.

Super Pets to a back pocket/flank for a 'last chance' in a different role.

Jaensch in and to Pets role (based only on what I hear from people, not sure he can play that role?? anyone help me here?)

Walker to play Dangers 'forward' role and Danger to move into the midfield rotations/HBF role (Edwards or Dogga - whichever Pets doesn't fill).

Mckernan to play 2nd ruck and leave Tippett down forward.

Personally don't think we are losing too much of our structure and we are not losing anything around the ground either because super crap to super super crap isn't a big gap

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

I would omit Porps and Burton tbh. While Burton is performing ok, he needs about 72 hours of kicking practice, and Porps is not a Porsche right now, he is a Datsun 120y. Walker and Stevens to replace them.

Possibly give petrenko some time in defense in Doughtys spot, and bring in Jaensch. Or in Goodwins position and throw Goodwin to the Forward pocket next to tippet and walker. Doughty omitted should be a warning sign to all seasoned players that no one is safe!

Wouldnt mind trying to fit ANY available ruckman in to back up Maric as well. Our best football was with 2 rucks + tippett at FF. Whether it be McKernan / Craig until Sellar / Maric returns. Just not Griffin, he is not worth it imo.

Need stability to improve the side. At the moment there is no stability moving Tippett from FF to Ruck, having Porps playing poorly, Burton playing half a game, playing Petrenko and Walker out of position. Its a mess

FF: Goodwin Tippett Walker
HF: Knights Stevens McLeod
C: Reilly Vince Cook
HB: Petrenko Bock VB
FB: Johncock Rutten Davis
R: Maric Thompson Danger

Int: Craig/Mckernan Jaensch Schmidt Edwards

I dont know if the injuries Thompson and Tippett can be fixed with time off? Not sure if a few weeks on the sidelines would help. Would be a good experiment to drop tippett to rest for 2 weeks and see how Walker goes as the Full Forward focal point.

 

[WAG]

What about Neil Craig's policy of not gifting young players games just for the sake of it, rather than them earning their position. He has come out and said something around these lines often in the past few years.

Ok Neil, how many games have been gifted to "experienced" players in the past few weeks?

While it frustrates the bejeezes out of me, those 'experienced' players probably have some credits in the bank and Craigy may be thinking that being 'experienced' players, their form will turn around and they'll be back to carving it up. How long he will wait for this form turn around to happen is anyone's guess. Maybe 2012???

 

[Elite Crow]

It seems evident that the club has no intentions of dropping anyone unless they're injured, are named Taylor Walker, or have less than 10 games experience. However, I'm curious to know what our lounge room selectors would do if in charge of the Crows list.


We can probably divide our current 22 into the following categories:

• Carrying a known injury (eg Thompson, Tippett)
• Severely lacking in match fitness due to previous time on the sidelines with injury (eg Porplyzia, Knights)
• Lacking in Form due to being played out of position (eg Petrenko)
• Failing to perform to expected standards (eg Doughty, Edwards)
• Fit and performing to expected standards (eg Reilly, Rutten, McLeod)

We currently have limited flexibility in the changes we can make, given our lengthy injury list. Players available (who played in the SANFL over the weekend) are: Walker, Young, Gunston, McKernan, Griffin, Craig, Talia, Armstrong and Jaensch.

Which of the above groups would be the first you'd omit players from? Which players could/should we drop and who could/should replace them, noting that the idea is to actually improve our side (and not just give the kids a run)?

Added why Petrenko is out of form.

 

[Vader]

My main points seem to have been missed. Maybe I didn't make them well enough.

Firstly, we have a LOT of players who are well below their best, for a number of reasons. Do we drop someone who is injured, before someone who is not match fit, or should first cab off the rank be someone who is just plain out of form?

The number of players we have in the last category (fit and performing to expected standards) is alarmingly small!

Ideally, we'd be dropping everyone who's not performing and replacing them with someone who is currently starring in the SANFL. The reality is that our replacement options consists of Walker and a bunch of kids with 2 games or less to their names. The other reality is that we can't drop 17 players from the senior team either, even if only 5 or 6 can justify their selection based on 2010 performances.

It's difficult for the selection panel to bring themselves to drop players who are clearly in our best 22 when fit and firing - but who are performing at a less than acceptable level right now. It's even more difficult when they see so few alternatives.

 

[Vader]

Added why Petrenko is out of form.

That may or may not be the reason why he's out of form. He didn't overly impress me last year either, when he wasn't expected to play in a foreign position. It may well be that he's simply not good enough.

 

[Allefgib]

My main points seem to have been missed. Maybe I didn't make them well enough.

Firstly, we have a LOT of players who are well below their best, for a number of reasons. Do we drop someone who is injured, before someone who is not match fit, or should first cab off the rank be someone who is just plain out of form?

The number of players we have in the last category (fit and performing to expected standards) is alarmingly small!

Ideally, we'd be dropping everyone who's not performing and replacing them with someone who is currently starring in the SANFL. The reality is that our replacement options consists of Walker and a bunch of kids with 2 games or less to their names. The other reality is that we can't drop 17 players from the senior team either, even if only 5 or 6 can justify their selection based on 2010 performances.

It's difficult for the selection panel to bring themselves to drop players who are clearly in our best 22 when fit and firing - but who are performing at a less than acceptable level right now. It's even more difficult when they see so few alternatives.

To maybe hit your point better below is my 'guiding principles' for selection changes.

• drop 1 or 2 senior, underperforming, players
• make some positional changes to ensure that; some of the younger guys are exposed in their 'comfort zones'; cover the structural gaps by dropping the seniors; generate more impact on the game (i.e. walker forward to kick goals, paddy to HBF to break lines and get more of the footy)
• get a 2nd ruck in to support Tippet staying at FF

I'm not so worried about players with injuries or underdone. If that puts them in senior/under-performing category that makes an easy decision. i.e. I would continue to play Thomo even if holding an injury at present. I wouldn't drop both Knights and Porps as they are critical to our best forward structure and could 'come good'.

I really believe their are changes that can be made to 'send a message' that don't expose us too much more than we already are.

 

[Allefgib]

That may or may not be the reason why he's out of form. He didn't overly impress me last year either, when he wasn't expected to play in a foreign position. It may well be that he's simply not good enough.

Agreed with all this. But I'd play him back before I dropped him.

 

[Elite Crow]

That may or may not be the reason why he's out of form. He didn't overly impress me last year either, when he wasn't expected to play in a foreign position. It may well be that he's simply not good enough.

Fair enough, but he needs to be given an opportunity to play a position he is suited to after another year of development.

He looked good in the NAB cup game when he was moved to defence, and was one of the only real positives taken from that game. Pretty sure Craigy even singled him out.

 

[Vader]

I am not averse to the idea of giving Petrenko a run in defence to give him the best chance of showing us what he's capable of. Fail in his natural position and we can feel better about packing him back to the SANFL. Succeed and we've found a small defender to help Johncock keep our opponent's midget forwards under control (very helpful against teams like Carlton) - still need to find ourselves a small forward though.

 

[Allefgib]

I am not averse to the idea of giving Petrenko a run in defence to give him the best chance of showing us what he's capable of. Fail in his natural position and we can feel better about packing him back to the SANFL. Succeed and we've found a small defender to help Johncock keep our opponent's midget forwards under control (very helpful against teams like Carlton) - still need to find ourselves a small forward though.

Correct weight on all fronts.

 

[Elite Crow]

I am not averse to the idea of giving Petrenko a run in defence to give him the best chance of showing us what he's capable of. Fail in his natural position and we can feel better about packing him back to the SANFL. Succeed and we've found a small defender to help Johncock keep our opponent's midget forwards under control (very helpful against teams like Carlton) - still need to find ourselves a small forward though.

Can you let the club know

 

[Vader]

Can you let the club know

It's not as if they are not trying to find one from within the existing list...
Douglas - failed
Petrenko - failed

Who do you propose we play there instead?

• Johncock is not the answer - the 2 goals a game he'd average up forward would be more than countered by the 5 his opponent would kick on us at the other end of the ground.
• Jaensch maybe? Then again, that's probably a waste of his speed and delivery - we'd be better off playing him in defence or the midfield where he can use his weapons to setup our forwards.
• What other options are there available to us at present?

 

[Allefgib]

It's not as if they are not trying to find one from within the existing list...
Douglas - failed
Petrenko - failed

Who do you propose we play there instead?

• Johncock is not the answer - the 2 goals a game he'd average up forward would be more than countered by the 5 his opponent would kick on us at the other end of the ground.
• Jaensch maybe? Then again, that's probably a waste of his speed and delivery - we'd be better off playing him in defence or the midfield where he can use his weapons to setup our forwards.
• What other options are there available to us at present?

This is where I feel the club needs to 'go shopping' during trade week. Specific need we've had since Bode. Don't just wait and be 'open to trading but prefer to draft players' go out and see if we can trade for a specific need.

On our current list I'd keep playing dougie there - he has his moments.
Petrenko back to get some confidence and then throw him forward again.
Macca as a stop gap for this season whilst the young guys learn their craft elsewhere? (not great but could work depending on our focus for the year)
Sloane, when fit, just for the terrier tackling?

I've actually got a sneaking feeling we drafted so many talls last year to put us in a position to have 'cash in the pocket' for the trading before the next few, comprised, drafts.

 

[Vader]

This is where I feel the club needs to 'go shopping' during trade week. Specific need we've had since Bode. Don't just wait and be 'open to trading but prefer to draft players' go out and see if we can trade for a specific need.

I agree and have been quite vocal about it on this board over the last few weeks, while every man and his dog has been bleating about the need to trade for yet another b-grade ruckman when our list is already overflowing with them.

 

[dogs105]

I wouldn't drop him, but the "Rutten performing up to expectations" bit must be excluding last Friday. He looked like he was about 60 years old.

Is he carrying an injury?

 

[Vader]

Rutten had a shocker on Friday, but had been excellent in all our previous games. I'm prepared to give him a bit of leeway, particularly considering the way the ball was coming into the forward line that night.

 

[jenny61_99]

I believe Neil Craigs philosphy is quite clear. His aim is to select the best possible side week in week out and remain competitve. He will only drop a player if he feels the replacement is ready to give an equal or better contest. My guess is that he doesn't feel that there are enough players ready to take any spots. Rarely will he drop a senior player for a young untried player. The young players get an opportunity either due to injuries wihin the side or a replacement for a similar younger player not in form.

This is it in a nutshell.

 

[dogs105]

Rutten had a shocker on Friday, but had been excellent in all our previous games. I'm prepared to give him a bit of leeway, particularly considering the way the ball was coming into the forward line that night.

Absolutely, had been good before that game. I was just wondering about the injury factor?

 

[Vader]

Absolutely, had been good before that game. I was just wondering about the injury factor?

Your guess is as good as mine. Some reports here claimed that he might have a arm or shoulder injury - but the club haven't been forthcoming with any injury reports (not that that means much).

 

[Vantz]

Looking at teams on the weekend I could not help but acknowledge Collingwoods selections.

Leigh Brown, Tarkyn Lockyer, Shane O'Bree, Jack Anthony and Presti (Rested) all out. They are promoting their youth such as Dawes, Brown, Sidebottom, Wellingham and Beams and reaping the benefits.

I believe we still have a role for Goodwin and Mcleod to play roles within the side, however the rest are simply list cloggers preventing younger players an opportunity to develop. It is time the AFC as they have done in the past, tap certain players on the shoulder, thank them for their contribution and move them on.