Drugs in sport - Where we've been, where we are at.

[blackcat]

or they are talking about Paula Radcliffe circa 2011.

could be Radcliffe, she was dodgy as, <think> a Mr Olympia training at the Hanger Windy Hill. dodgy as.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

or they are talking about Paula Radcliffe circa 2011.

could be Radcliffe, she was dodgy as, <think> a Mr Olympia training at the Hanger Windy Hill. dodgy as.

She isn't an Olympic champion so I thought about gold medalists first.

Christine Ohuruogu won the 400m in 2008 and missed the 3 drugs tests and was banned for 2 years but I wouldnt call her an icon.

In 2012 Mo won 2 golds in London, Rutherford won the LJ and Ennis won the Heptathlon.

In 2016 Mo did the double again and was the only British gold medalist in athletics in Rio. So its hard to see how its not Mo.

 

[blackcat]

She isn't an Olympic champion so I thought about gold medalists first.

Christine Ohuruogu won the 400m in 2008 and missed the 3 drugs tests and was banned for 2 years but I wouldnt call her an icon.

In 2012 Mo won 2 golds in London, Rutherford won the LJ and Ennis won the Heptathlon.

In 2016 Mo did the double again and was the only British gold medalist in athletics in Rio. So its hard to see how its not Mo.

but re: olympic medallist, after i posted radcliffe, then I realised the qualifier wrt olymptic medallist, and knew it would get picked up by someone, and the resident FigBooty athletics expert REH would have to be sure to read it, or mis read it, that is, not read it. If you read it, not replied, you would have had to have glossed over the details(not likely), or... more likely could not be fucked to replying to the obvious error. (that is, more likely if you never replied have once read the post)...

ok, so we went thru that.

lets have a caveat tho REH even tho I read it back after posting, then saw the qualifiers wrt Oly medal, and new Paula Radcliffe never won an Olymptic medal.

this is the devils advocate in the case it WAS Paula Radcliffe, but the media have it wrong.

Well, some powerful vested interested sought to throw us investigators and gumshoes off the scent... innit? It was intentionally wrong.


I dont think this is conspiratorial.

however, I think it is less likely, and good for REH to correct the record, cos I could not be fucked redacting and revising and editing, and it was a little bit of pride and windy hill hubris and not admitting I fucked up

 

[owen87]

I'd say this one describes the situation pretty well:


So long as the financial reward from success remains so high, we're never going to see a truly independent Anti-Doping effort, especially with any IOC related sports that don't have the wealth to completely neglect government funding and WADA codes the way sports like NFL or MLB do.

Can you imagine the damage to Athletics if Bolt was caught for example? Imagine if Thorpe had been caught back in the 2000's?

Armstrong was really only caught because the US government got involved, the UCI had no interest in having him go down, similar to Wiggins / Froome and their impact on the UK market.

I find anti-doping in sports intriguing, particularly because of the political angle it always takes; when the Russians or Chinese cheat it's always a reflection upon their political systems, when an English or American athlete does it's individual.

 

[blackcat]

I'd say this one describes the situation pretty well:


So long as the financial reward from success remains so high, we're never going to see a truly independent Anti-Doping effort, especially with any IOC related sports that don't have the wealth to completely neglect government funding and WADA codes the way sports like NFL or MLB do.

Can you imagine the damage to Athletics if Bolt was caught for example? Imagine if Thorpe had been caught back in the 2000's?

Armstrong was really only caught because the US government got involved, the UCI had no interest in having him go down, similar to Wiggins / Froome and their impact on the UK market.

I find anti-doping in sports intriguing, particularly because of the political angle it always takes; when the Russians or Chinese cheat it's always a reflection upon their political systems, when an English or American athlete does it's individual.

Thorpe was caught. he had a lutenizing hormone positive when he went to LA to boof his lover and get fat.

 

[blackcat]

I find anti-doping in sports intriguing, particularly because of the political angle it always takes; when the Russians or Chinese cheat it's always a reflection upon their political systems, when an English or American athlete does it's individual.

I dont think it is this, or otherism. It is simply the sporting field taken into the boardroom. or the courtroom. or the science lab.

the competition is continuing.

part of the competition is actually the navigation of the anti-doping strictures, there is actually a wide open hole, like, wide open, like, B-double articulated highway train truck hole, thus, they call it an IQ test. We all dope. this is not a particular reply to owen87 but, best leave the morality at the door.

I think the actual question is, how we are imposed these motherhood statements and puritan concepts of fairplay and sportsmanship. It is all BS.

so the question is the imposed concept of morality transposed on sport and anti-doping. The fact that other nations dope, nations that we have never had much cultural language and relations with, kenya, Russia... this is easy for "us" us Australian sportsfans, cos we are a pretty simple bunch, give us a beer and a sport and a seat at the G, in summer, in winter.... but when the Russians dope, we can say they lack the morality.

It is quite absurd.

same for Russia, equivalent see: Essendon. We have taken the competition off the G into the courtrooms and FigBooty forums. I never understood football until this imbroglio. I was not a big football person, never went to games, rarely watched it on the tevee. And the tribal thing, this was pure theory or concept for me. I did not know it really existed. Until the last half dozen years of amusement.

Essendon only were stupid to bring it inside the tent, had hubris and no concern for risk management. imo, that is why they deserved to be punished. Not because the individuals were doing anything different from the brownlow table of your team, they will all be on the same s**t no doubt.

Did anyone read Werner Reiterer's book Positive! ? b0ydman has a copy.

no. ok, i rest my case. Jan Ullrich aphorism, if you cant add 2 and 2 together I cant help you.

I reckon the bloc of FigBooty has the cognitive dissonance thing... 98% fail arithmetic and get 2+2=5

i need some references to #succour_moms so I can link 61 in

jenny61_99 Lance Uppercut

Chameleon75

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I find anti-doping in sports intriguing, particularly because of the political angle it always takes; when the Russians or Chinese cheat it's always a reflection upon their political systems, when an English or American athlete does it's individual.

Doping started as a cold war strategy in the late 50's and 60's when crude steroids were used in weightlifting and wrestling and then moved to the other sports that had explosive power needs, like sprinting, gymnastics, boxing etc.

In the 1970's the East German's perfected the state sponsored doping system and its why a country with the population size of Australia at the time, could dominate certain sports and at the Olympics on the medal table push the Soviets and USA for top spot. The yanks decided to match them, not by government sponsorship, but the USOC basically turned a blind eye but tested their athletes to make sure their system and athletes were clean before they headed off to the Olympics.

But more subtle drugs were introduced starting with Human Growth Hormones around 1980 which were undetectable and the first positive HGH test only occurred 30 years later for a British Rugby League player. EPO made its way into cycling in the late 1980's and was rife in long distance running by the mid 1990's. other hormone drugs, SARMs, IGF-1 etc even gene doping has made its way onto the scene all starting off as very expensive drugs for serious medical conditions but when used by healthy athletes was like liquid gold for them. The wall coming down and the end of the cold war saw the cleaning up of Olympic type sports as the East German and other Eastern bloc secrets were revealed. In the late 1980's and into the 1990's non Olympic sports, the ones with the big dollars latched onto these more subtle and harder to detect drugs. But the cold war is back on as has been demonstrated the last few years but I suspect Putin and the Russians decided after the 2004 Olympics to get back on the horse so to speak, as the athletes in the west had not stopped using drugs, just used better drugs results wise and harder to detect, and not state sponsored, private sector, but western governments not overly concerned to catch many cheats, just the odd one here and there to say look we are working hard to catch the cheats and the system is working.

 

[blackcat]

But more subtle drugs were introduced starting with Human Growth Hormones around 1980 which were undetectable and the first positive HGH test only occurred 30 years later for a British Rugby League player.

who then committed suicide the next year(s). but in the <immediate period> aftermath as the scandal panned out.

RIP this dude

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

who then committed suicide the next year(s). but in the <immediate period> aftermath as the scandal panned out.

RIP this dude

Yeah, I remember you told me that and linked the story from a UK newspaper.

 

[yaco55]

The IOC needs to re-assess its decisions to reallocate medals after back-dated positive tests - It's becoming farcical when the 9th placegetter eventually receives a bronze medal 8 years later - Of course this happens because the IOC doesn't test the whole field at the time, but only medallists and other selected athletes - So you have the possibility of someone getting a medal from outside the top 5 because they were never drug tested at the time - How the IOC doesn't see this is a flawed system is surprising.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

I dont think it is this, or otherism. It is simply the sporting field taken into the boardroom. or the courtroom. or the science lab.

the competition is continuing.

part of the competition is actually the navigation of the anti-doping strictures, there is actually a wide open hole, like, wide open, like, B-double articulated highway train truck hole, thus, they call it an IQ test. We all dope. this is not a particular reply to owen87 but, best leave the morality at the door.

I think the actual question is, how we are imposed these motherhood statements and puritan concepts of fairplay and sportsmanship. It is all BS.

so the question is the imposed concept of morality transposed on sport and anti-doping. The fact that other nations dope, nations that we have never had much cultural language and relations with, kenya, Russia... this is easy for "us" us Australian sportsfans, cos we are a pretty simple bunch, give us a beer and a sport and a seat at the G, in summer, in winter.... but when the Russians dope, we can say they lack the morality.

It is quite absurd.

same for Russia, equivalent see: Essendon. We have taken the competition off the G into the courtrooms and FigBooty forums. I never understood football until this imbroglio. I was not a big football person, never went to games, rarely watched it on the tevee. And the tribal thing, this was pure theory or concept for me. I did not know it really existed. Until the last half dozen years of amusement.

Essendon only were stupid to bring it inside the tent, had hubris and no concern for risk management. imo, that is why they deserved to be punished. Not because the individuals were doing anything different from the brownlow table of your team, they will all be on the same s**t no doubt.

Did anyone read Werner Reiterer's book Positive! ? b0ydman has a copy.

no. ok, i rest my case. Jan Ullrich aphorism, if you cant add 2 and 2 together I cant help you.

I reckon the bloc of FigBooty has the cognitive dissonance thing... 98% fail arithmetic and get 2+2=5

i need some references to #succour_moms so I can link 61 in

jenny61_99 Lance Uppercut

Chameleon75

Another publication that illustrates the point...