Drugs in Tennis

[matt_897]

Of course tennis lends itself to drugs, like any sport, you are trying to gain a competitive advantage. But I think it's doesn't provide as big as an advantage because so much of the sport comes down to technique and not so much the physique (of course it's a big factor but its not going to teach you hit a forehand at a certain target). I guess with the sport becoming more physical with the slowing down the courts doesn't help though

 

[pepsi]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tenn...cilics-failed-doping-test-20130925-2uczb.html

Interesting article about the ITF not releasing positive test results and covering things up.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tenn...cilics-failed-doping-test-20130925-2uczb.html

Interesting article about the ITF not releasing positive test results and covering things up.

Interesting reading.

It's an odd thing to say, but I don't mind this sort of "cover up".

The investigation's findings were that Cilic inadvertently took a banned drug that was bought by his mother. In this situation he's not a blatant drug cheat. We saw what happened when Jobe - one of the most universally admired and respected figures in our game - admitted to taking AOD - and that isn't even performance enhancing. Of course, Marin took a banned substance and deserves the punishment for it, however I don't see why it should be made public and completely damage his reputation when it was a legitimate mistake. There's a lot at stake in these situations and I'm not overly angered at the ATP as I imagine some will be as a result of this.

 

[pepsi]

Interesting reading.

It's an odd thing to say, but I don't mind this sort of "cover up".

The investigation's findings were that Cilic inadvertently took a banned drug that was bought by his mother. In this situation he's not a blatant drug cheat. We saw what happened when Jobe - one of the most universally admired and respected figures in our game - admitted to taking AOD - and that isn't even performance enhancing. Of course, Marin took a banned substance and deserves the punishment for it, however I don't see why it should be made public and completely damage his reputation when it was a legitimate mistake. There's a lot at stake in these situations and I'm not overly angered at the ATP as I imagine some will be as a result of this.

I tend to agree with you in this particular situation. I'm sure some will read into it differently however.

 

[Belnakor]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tenn...cilics-failed-doping-test-20130925-2uczb.html

Interesting article about the ITF not releasing positive test results and covering things up.

the ITF are about as anti drugs as the WWF. Nadal's mysterious injury lay off a couple of years back etc

 

[bato]

The lunatic is at it again.

http://www.blick.ch/sport/tennis/dass-der-nichts-nimmt-glaubt-doch-keiner-id2454156.html

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Suspended player Daniel Köllerer has accused Rafael Nadal of doping - referring to his amazing return from injury as "impossible".

 

[hirdy_is_champ]

The lunatic is at it again.

http://www.blick.ch/sport/tennis/dass-der-nichts-nimmt-glaubt-doch-keiner-id2454156.html

​

Suspended player Daniel Köllerer has accused Rafael Nadal of doping - referring to his amazing return from injury as "impossible".

Not that loony at all, unfortunately tennis is probably dirtier than cycling right now. E.g., Djokovic claimed that the doping control officer who tried to take a sample of Troicki was "lying a lot". Really, was he there? I bet Chris Froome is more likely to be clean than Williams and Nadal, at least this bloke gets tested heaps. Serena Williams went two years without an out-of-competition test, for instance.

Also before anyone decides to s**t can me like on one other previous occasion these stats are freely available online.

Link to Djokovic's comments. http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=93013

Murray has also interestingly done an about face. Very much speaks out against doping now, but just a couple of years ago complained about draconian testing and stuff, despite the fact they aren't tested often enough at all considering its a professional sport with millions at stake.

 

[bato]

Not that loony at all, unfortunately tennis is probably dirtier than cycling right now. E.g., Djokovic claimed that the doping control officer who tried to take a sample of Troicki was "lying a lot". Really, was he there? I bet Chris Froome is more likely to be clean than Williams and Nadal, at least this bloke gets tested heaps. Serena Williams went two years without an out-of-competition test, for instance.

Also before anyone decides to s**t can me like on one other previous occasion these stats are freely available online.

Link to Djokovic's comments. http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=93013

Murray has also interestingly done an about face. Very much speaks out against doping now, but just a couple of years ago complained about draconian testing and stuff, despite the fact they aren't tested often enough at all considering its a professional sport with millions at stake.

He lives in Monte Carlo. He knows his way around the place with his eyes closed. "Lying a lot" was in reference to the distance that the doping officer claimed to have travelled, where it took her twenty minutes to walk 20 metres - something along the lines of that.

Yeah, Serena dodged the tests like a bullet. Strange to see her go through the whole 2010 and 2011 season without being tested. She wasn't even tested by USADA strangely enough. At the end of the 2011 season, she fled to a hiding spot in her mansion, as she mistook the doping officer for a 'dangerous intruder'.

 

[Belnakor]

? I bet Chris Froome is more likely to be clean than Williams and Nadal, at least this bloke gets tested heaps. Serena Williams went two years without an out-of-competition test, for instance.

yup and there is no way Froome is clean. Its just its alot easier to measure "unrealistic" performances in cycling.

Murray has also interestingly done an about face. Very much speaks out against doping now, but just a couple of years ago complained about draconian testing and stuff, despite the fact they aren't tested often enough at all considering its a professional sport with millions at stake.

I think Murray was fine until he realized that Nadal is doper.

 

[pepsi]

Just pondering, but why is there such a lack of players 20 years old and under in the top 100? Is it due to the increased physicality in the sport? Could that be as a result of the increased use of PEDs in tennis?

 

[Belnakor]

Just pondering, but why is there such a lack of players 20 years old and under in the top 100? Is it due to the increased physicality in the sport? Could that be as a result of the increased use of PEDs in tennis?

Increased physicality - I think its because the rallys are longer, players are hitting the ball harder and the games are going for longer. Part of that is no doubt due to EPOs, but also steroids which allow increased power.

 

[ElenaRocks]

I don't think drugs is good for health, but for now these days celebrities are fighting to get their name listed at TOP that's why they do anything without caring health or anything. There are many other ways to Improve Forehand or Backhand bio-mechanics but they want short-cut.

 

[blackcat]

they are all on it.

game theory.

all

 

[blackcat]

I don't think drugs is good for health, but for now these days celebrities are fighting to get their name listed at TOP that's why they do anything without caring health or anything. There are many other ways to Improve Forehand or Backhand bio-mechanics but they want short-cut.

well, when muster and courier were dominating clay and obviously on roids, then a late maturing pat rafter of bermuda becomes the number one and the fittest in the game, there is your answer.

 

[blackcat]

Of the top 4 I would have Fed as the least suspicious re drugs.

If he is on it, the other blokes have better doctors.

look at the thickening of the bones in his skull. obviously growth factors. he was always touted as a future number one, but when he was the contemoporary of hewitt but a few years development behind him, i think he sorted out his medical program and got his 5-set fitness up to scratch and bingo, he could leverage that talent that the commentators knew was unpeer'ed.

the biggest question mark for me is pistol pete.

everyone else, since the becker era, i reckon, especially lendl, on it. thomas muster and jim courier, just slaughtered everyone in the stamina rallies from back of court, then there is the rise of spain.

but was pistol pete. heart and head says no. but there is a ruthless analysis that says, game theory and A-type personality of pros would say yes.

 

[blackcat]

She wasn't even tested by USADA strangely enough. At the end of the 2011 season, she fled to a hiding spot in her mansion, as she mistook the doping officer for a 'dangerous intruder'.

actually, not that strange. its a shell game, they aint meant to catch the stars

 

[Belnakor]

look at the thickening of the bones in his skull. obviously growth factors. ihe was always touted as a future number one, but when he was the contemoporary of hewitt but a few years development behind him, i think he sorted out his medical program and got his 5 set fitness yup to scratch and bingo, he could leverage that talent that the commentators knew was unpeered.

Federer relied on his touch and skill with the racket, he doesn't beat people with physicality like nadal and his mates do. If he was doping i can live with it as it wasn't in the "super human" level like Nadal (ie: comes back from a 7 month "injury" lay off still in tip top physical condition. Yeah sure. How do AFL players go after 12 months out and no match fitness?)

the biggest question mark for me is pistol pete.

everyone else, since the becker era, i reckon, especially lendl, on it.

but was pistol pete. heart and head says no. but there is a ruthless analysis that says, gam theory and A type personality of pros would say yes.

Pistol Pete's biggest advantage was his serve and speed to the net. He didn't play these ridiculous 100 shot rallies or play back to back 5 setters without gassing.

 

[blackcat]

Federer relied on his touch and skill with the racket, he doesn't beat people with physicality like nadal and his mates do.

you are right and wrong. and the premise here, is a false dichotomy. Federer does beat opponents because he has it all. but look at the top 4 or 5. Novak, Murray, Fed, Ferrer, Rafa, they are all the best defensive players in the game. you are basically looking at offense. but to be able to capitalise on your offensive game, you must be unpeered as a defensive player too. The only exception to my point is Del Potro, but his wingspan allows him to cover an extra foot on either side, to mitigate his footspeed that does not match the others. and another caveat, the bouncing bunny go go gadget man, gael monfils, he is a splendid defender, but his body takes a pounding and is unsustainable long into tourneys.

I luv watching Fed play too, and he is pure. But when these guys can defend and defend and defend and defend, you gotta match fire with fire, to go deep into rallies and go deep into fifth setters. you get my point. they all do it, it is only neutralising what big time dopers muster and rafa do.

and i dont see PEDs as defaming an athlete, an allegation. others do. i dont. i make no value judgements, i think they are meant to perform, and that is their job description and role. get out and play in the coliseum. others see it as defamatory, because they project their beliefs, wrongly held and misconceived upon sportsmen.

and in defense of myself, i went thru the doping 12 step sobriety after coming thru cycling. you should really look at tennishasasteroidproblem.com. And look at Feds forehead over the years and the bossing or thickening of his brow and elongation. even accounting for lighting, weightloss, and hair receding. its inarguable.

If he was doping i can live with it as it wasn't in the "super human" level like Nadal (ie: comes back from a 7 month "injury" lay off still in tip top physical condition. Yeah sure. How do AFL players go after 12 months out and no match fitness?)

I have no objections to this position. it is a red queen effect. and everyone jumping on a treadmill, to stand still. I think Muster was the first to "ramp up" the ped regimes. but i have no doubt that conners prolly partook too. courier, definitely. so did "our" pat. its not a bad mark on ones character. if you read tennishasasteroidproblem, they do the morality thing, judgemental. they dont understand the sociologoly of pro sport. they miss the picture

Pistol Pete's biggest advantage was his serve and speed to the net. He didn't play these ridiculous 100 shot rallies or play back to back 5 setters without gassing.

And this is why, i think he could be one of the last number one's to not dope. But then think of Agassi (definitely, look at Gil Reyes, and listen to Marcelo Rios and Andrew Ille). It WOULD NOT be a stain against Pistol imo. Just like it is not a stain on Bermuda Rafter.

 

[blackcat]

big laughs on Thomas Soderling too. Like alot of the Spainiards, he wins thru intensity. see: doping.

and Marat Safin, i actually thought he had more than Fed at one time, tho he was not as good a defender, a wasted talent almost as bad as mark philippousis and what tomic will be. But he was definitely helped more by his "Spanish preparation". you dont get a body like this in the 1970s playing tennis.

just looking at him now, he does not look that mcuh bigger than what andy murray has become.

 

[Belnakor]

I luv watching Fed play too, and he is pure. But when these guys can defend and defend and defend and defend, you gotta match fire with fire, to go deep into rallies and go deep into fifth setters. you get my point. they all do it, it is only neutralising what big time dopers muster and rafa do.

Its the Cadel Evans type approach - do what you have to, to stay competitive.

and in defense of myself, i went thru the doping 12 step sobriety after coming thru cycling. you should really look at tennishasasteroidproblem.com. And look at Feds forehead over the years and the bossing or thickening of his brow and elongation. even accounting for lighting, weightloss, and hair receding. its inarguable.

its the classic forehead and jaw. Just look at Cathy Freeman and tell me her appearance didn't change.

I have no objections to this position. it is a red queen effect. and everyone jumping on a treadmill, to stand still. I think Muster was the first to "ramp up" the ped regimes. but i have no doubt that conners prolly partook too. courier, definitely. so did "our" pat. its not a bad mark on ones character. if you read tennishasasteroidproblem, they do the morality thing, judgemental. they dont understand the sociologoly of pro sport. they miss the picture And this is why, i think he could be one of the last number one's to not dope. But then think of Agassi (definitely, look at Gil Reyes, and listen to Marcelo Rios and Andrew Ille). It WOULD NOT be a stain against Pistol imo. Just like it is not a stain on Bermuda Rafter.

Agassi was on the juice 100% so i guess that is that.

The thing about Pete was also that he rarely, rarely played 5 setters. 1999 Wimbledon he only lost 2 sets the entire tournament. 1998 he lost 3 sets (2 in the final). 1997 - 3 sets (2 against a known doper Korda). Tennis was a different game then, this nonsense where Nadal plays two back to back 5 hour games and still looks as fresh as ever (no doubt with the aid of a BB) just didn't happen back then.

 

[Belnakor]

big laughs on Thomas Soderling too. Like alot of the Spainiards, he wins thru intensity. see: doping.

and Marat Safin, i actually thought he had more than Fed at one time, tho he was not as good a defender, a wasted talent almost as bad as mark philippousis and what tomic will be. But he was definitely helped more by his "Spanish preparation". you dont get a body like this in the 1970s playing tennis.

well yeah, just look at the implications on his sister who worked with a known doping doctor. I would hazard there is no player from Spain who is clean. Its cultural.

 

[blackcat]

well yeah, just look at the implications on his sister who worked with a known doping doctor. I would hazard there is no player from Spain who is clean. Its cultural.

juan antonio samaranch ushered in a big performance regime with the olympics. but look at Great Britain, Greece, Australia, and China. not really any different.

And spain dope big time, but i dont think many other european nations do any different. even the swedes. see the swedes with great swimmers and T&F athletes. ofcourse they do what needs to be done. If the public only knew how our swimmers performed so well big lols.

 

[blackcat]

its the classic forehead and jaw. Just look at Cathy Freeman and tell me her appearance didn't change.

heres the thing.

all those who wanna smear with conspiracy theory(ies), and wheres the evidence(?) will say, that is a confirmation bias. naturally horse-face like megan gale.

i have a horse-face too.

but it is: ceteris paribus, all things being equal, comparing like to like. And what the size of one's head would have been. When ones head has matured and skull plates fused as some early twenties time, then, can one discern the most minute differences. Can you determine the differences, minute, and over years, millimetre by half-millimetre, jaws of certain weathergirls who may have or may not have been swimmers.

how about keirin perkins and his milk advertisements lol

 

[blackcat]

Belnakor have you seen my post (repeated many times over other fora too) on athletes head size, and how to neutralise the confirmation bias of an individual athlete?

you dont appraise an individual athlete, but you measure the entire sample of pro sportsmen in 1980, and compare the 2010 sample and their head size.

oh, and wait for people to raise the phrenology retort. rinse. repeat

 

[Belnakor]

Belnakor have you seen my post (repeated many times over other fora too) on athletes head size, and how to neutralise the confirmation bias of an individual athlete?

you dont appraise an individual athlete, but you measure the entire sample of pro sportsmen in 1980, and compare the 2010 sample and their head size.

would certainly be interesting to see how stuff has "changed" over the years. Barry Bonds ended up looking like a bobble head doll.