Scandal Dustin Martin in drunken scuffle

Brown Bottle

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Agree. Yes, let's test every 'no criminal offence' finding in a court of law:

"Members of the jury, after a vigorous investigation, police found no criminal offence had taken place, and in fact, did not even charge the defendant with a crime....HOWEVER!"

I'm starting to think this thread is now just a wind up.
You're starting to think this?
 

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JackFlash

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You have based all that on the fact what she said was true
We will never know now, because she has not given the police a written statement and she was the key witness. Something happened and you get that by Martin's own admission, but without her statement the official line is nothing happened. You must have evidence that will hold up in court. No doubt this is what Richmond were hoping for, now they can make their own judgements or plead their case to the AFL. Either way Martin plays round 1 and that's all Tiger fans care about.
 

mickctiger

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The cognitive dissonance coming from some people on this site is quite amazing.
"After reviewing CCTV footage and interviews from independent witnesses, the Police have determined that no criminal offense took place". That's quite unequivocal. It doesn't mean that there was insufficient evidence, it means that nothing criminal happened.
Yet, there are still those here who prefer to pretend otherwise



"The woman had decided not to make a statement to police for fear of being identified in any potential future court proceedings" It was always going to be her version of events that holds the key to Martin committing any offence. Without her written statement the police have no other choice.
.
With all due respect, that's rubbish. Even without her statement, the police still would have proceeded with charges, if they believed there was evidence that an offense took place. Especially so in the current political environment regarding domestic violence. Besides, for someone so unwilling to make a police statement, due to her "fear" of being identified (although under protocol her ID would have been withheld in any court case), she was only too ready to tell her story to the media.
The best conclusion that I can come up with for not wanting to make a statement to the police is that some of the allegations she made are inconsistent with what CCTV and witness statements have shown.

The bottom line here is that this is a case of "He said,She said". As the police have found, no criminal activity took place. So, all this is, is a case of an AFL player being a little too drunk in a public place and having a verbal altercation with another patron at the restaurant that he was at. There is nothing to hang him for, despite some here still wanting so much to crucify him.
I'm sure his club and the AFL will sanction him, but it wont be anywhere near as severe as his haters would wish for.
Wisely, and despite the criticism from sections of the Tabloid media, both the club and league have decided to wait until the facts are in before acting.
 

Freya

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I totally agree. Otherwise there is a possibility of another Brett Stewart (NRL) scenario.



Why should Dustin's 'penalty' be greater than Luke Hodge's drink driving charge. He didn't get behind the wheel of a car & put the public at risk plus the police have stated no crime has been committed after viewing video footage & witness statements.
Hodge didn't have to apologize in case someone felt threatened. He was lucid and recalled the entire incident. There was no need for a full scale police investigation. It's a ridiculous comparison.
 
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Hodge didn't have to apologize in case someone felt threatened. He was lucid and recalled the entire incident. There was no need for a full scale police investigation. It's a ridiculous comparison.
He still got caught doing something illegal (Martin wasn't found to have done something illegal). I don't think that we should hand out punishments based on drunkeness or lucidity.

Martin should be punished based on the AFLs codes of conduct and laws, but also by what is proven. It has been proven that he was drunk, and should be punished for that and that alone.
 
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Hodge didn't have to apologize in case someone felt threatened. He was lucid and recalled the entire incident. There was no need for a full scale police investigation. It's a ridiculous comparison.
yours is just as bad. What exactly would they investigate? He received a notice for drink driving. The police did their investigation when he blew over the legal limit. Hodge had to apologise for doing something, that the police agreed, was wrong. Why would they need further investigation? Martin gave a politicians apology.
 

Defacto

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A belief that a crime was committed does not make it a fact.

A belief that a crime was not committed does not make it a fact.

The police cannot make a determination that no crime was committed - police can determine that they didn't find enough evidence to believe a crime occurred but only the courts can actually make that determination.
so whats your point?

what do you want richmond or the AFL to do with dusty now?
 

JackFlash

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The cognitive dissonance coming from some people on this site is quite amazing.
"After reviewing CCTV footage and interviews from independent witnesses, the Police have determined that no criminal offense took place". That's quite unequivocal. It doesn't mean that there was insufficient evidence, it means that nothing criminal happened.
Yet, there are still those here who prefer to pretend otherwise




With all due respect, that's rubbish. Even without her statement, the police still would have proceeded with charges, if they believed there was evidence that an offense took place. Especially so in the current political environment regarding domestic violence. Besides, for someone so unwilling to make a police statement, due to her "fear" of being identified (although under protocol her ID would have been withheld in any court case), she was only too ready to tell her story to the media.
The best conclusion that I can come up with for not wanting to make a statement to the police is that some of the allegations she made are inconsistent with what CCTV and witness statements have shown.

The bottom line here is that this is a case of "He said,She said". As the police have found, no criminal activity took place. So, all this is, is a case of an AFL player being a little too drunk in a public place and having a verbal altercation with another patron at the restaurant that he was at. There is nothing to hang him for, despite some here still wanting so much to crucify him.
I'm sure his club and the AFL will sanction him, but it wont be anywhere near as severe as his haters would wish for.
Wisely, and despite the criticism from sections of the Tabloid media, both the club and league have decided to wait until the facts are in before acting.
EVIDENCE old chap, without evidence and her statement it's over. Not all investigations lead to a person being charged. Sometimes the police are unable to gather enough evidence during their investigation to bring a case to court. This does not mean that the police do not believe her story, or that she was not not a victim of crime. In her case she did not provide the police a statement, it would take a hot shot lawyer just minutes to pull apart any testimony from other diners who may or may not have been drinking themselves on the night. Hearsay doesn't count either. No evidence, no charge.
This is how the Police see it: An important aspect of any investigation is to record your statement. This will be usually conducted very early in the investigation. Statements will be taken in a private setting if at all possible. A statement is a written document that records what you can recall about the incident in detail and in chronological order. It is important that everything you can remember is included in your statement as even small details may help us to investigate the incident. We know it may not be easy for you to reveal certain facts, but it is important to disclose everything.
She did not do this, making the investigation and evidence collecting impossible to pass any other judgement than no criminal act occurred.
 
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EVIDENCE old chap, without evidence and her statement it's over. Not all investigations lead to a person being charged. Sometimes the police are unable to gather enough evidence during their investigation to bring a case to court. This does not mean that the police do not believe her story, or that she was not not a victim of crime. In her case she did not provide the police a statement, it would take a hot shot lawyer just minutes to pull apart any testimony from other diners who may or may not have been drinking themselves on the night. Hearsay doesn't count either. No evidence, no charge.
This is how the Police see it: An important aspect of any investigation is to record your statement. This will be usually conducted very early in the investigation. Statements will be taken in a private setting if at all possible. A statement is a written document that records what you can recall about the incident in detail and in chronological order. It is important that everything you can remember is included in your statement as even small details may help us to investigate the incident. We know it may not be easy for you to reveal certain facts, but it is important to disclose everything.
She did not do this, making the investigation and evidence collecting impossible to pass any other judgement than no criminal act occurred.
If independent witnesses and cctv confirmed an offence it would actually be a very very simple case to win.
 

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Chief

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You have based all that on the fact what she said was true
I don't see that. I see - his admission he was blackout drunk, knowing he approached her at her table, knowing his mates dragged him away, knowing he got kicked out, knowing he admitted he was doing something wrong (but doesn't seem to have asked his friends?).

Again, her accusation did not happen in a complete vacuum.

The black and white view is that if the police don't charge, she is lying. That is not valid. Just as invalid is taking the view that if the police charge someone they are automatically guilty.
 

Tiger2709

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Vindicated?

He threatened a woman.

He apologised for it.

Police elected not to charge him.

He's still a dick, and the real problem for him being an AFL footballer, that is punishment from the AFL and/or Richmond, is still there.

That has not changed. In fact, he's probably a step closer to that outcome now.
there is no evidence that he threatened anyone, do you not understand the term no criminal charges to face after carefully reviewing CCTV footage and interviewing independent witnesses.
The Police didnt decide not to charge him, they found no evidence to charge him with, that is a totally different thing.
 

nut

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The real issue is why he was allowed by the licencee to consume alcohol whilst intoxicated...
What's the fine these days?
 

Jade

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there is no evidence that he threatened anyone, do you not understand the term no criminal charges to face after carefully reviewing CCTV footage and interviewing independent witnesses.
The Police didnt decide not to charge him, they found no evidence to charge him with, that is a totally different thing.
Actually there is quite a bit of evidence, that which has been mentioned several times in this thread.

Lacking a statement from the alleged victim, police do not believe it warrants charging him.

But once again, I have never suggested he should be charged.
 

mick

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EVIDENCE old chap, without evidence and her statement it's over. Not all investigations lead to a person being charged. Sometimes the police are unable to gather enough evidence during their investigation to bring a case to court. This does not mean that the police do not believe her story, or that she was not not a victim of crime. In her case she did not provide the police a statement, it would take a hot shot lawyer just minutes to pull apart any testimony from other diners who may or may not have been drinking themselves on the night. Hearsay doesn't count either. No evidence, no charge.
This is how the Police see it: An important aspect of any investigation is to record your statement. This will be usually conducted very early in the investigation. Statements will be taken in a private setting if at all possible. A statement is a written document that records what you can recall about the incident in detail and in chronological order. It is important that everything you can remember is included in your statement as even small details may help us to investigate the incident. We know it may not be easy for you to reveal certain facts, but it is important to disclose everything.
She did not do this, making the investigation and evidence collecting impossible to pass any other judgement than no criminal act occurred.
What a load of bullshit. You have cut and pasted a section from the VICPOL website regarding victim statements and think that their entire case was dependent on it. To say that making a case without her statement is impossible simply untrue, if the CCTV evidence or statements from independant witnesses confirmed "Tracey's" story then her testimony would only be the icing on the cake. Many, many assaults are proven in court without the victim making a statement, particularly if they have been rendered unconcious or have a relationship with the accused.
 

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Hodge didn't have to apologize in case someone felt threatened. He was lucid and recalled the entire incident. There was no need for a full scale police investigation. It's a ridiculous comparison.
If Hodge was lucid & could recall the incident then he should have known not to drive but he intentionally gambled on not being caught. No investigation as it was open & shut. My point is why should Dustin Martin serve a greater sentence than a convicted drink driver when no crime has been committed.
 

Tiger2709

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Actually there is quite a bit of evidence, that which has been mentioned several times in this thread.

Lacking a statement from the alleged victim, police do not believe it warrants charging him.

But once again, I have never suggested he should be charged.
Quite a bit of evidence on Bigfooty was there, that is called hearsay and BS, not evidence, if we were using that to charge people, the Essendon 34 would have long ago been strung up by the goolies.

The Police statement was very clear and it was not that the evidence didnt warrant charging him, it was that there is no evidence that any crime was comitted why wont you face that fact?

So his punishment should now be commensurate with any players that was drunk in public, nothing more.
 

blackshadow

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so whats your point?

what do you want richmond or the AFL to do with dusty now?
My point is that it is incorrect for the police to state as a fact that no crime has been committed and wrong for Richmond fans to be parroting that statement.

As for what the AFL and Richmond do with dusty I'm not sure but if the incident occurred as reported (I'm yet to see anything that actually refutes the victim's account) then he deserves at least to miss several games in season and a hefty fine. My reasoning on that is because he's made an absolute goose of himself and thrown the AFL and players into the spotlight at a time when Australian society is saying that violence towards or abuse of women is not to be tolerated.
 

Jade

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Quite a bit of evidence on Bigfooty was there, that is called hearsay and BS, not evidence, if we were using that to charge people, the Essendon 34 would have long ago been strung up by the goolies.

The Police statement was very clear and it was not that the evidence didnt warrant charging him, it was that there is no evidence that any crime was comitted why wont you face that fact?

So his punishment should now be commensurate with any players that was drunk in public, nothing more.
Wow. That's a lot of errors in one post.

A video of his antics is evidence.

Getting kicked out of the establishment is evidence.

His apology for his actions is evidence.

Is that alone enough to charge him? Police don't think so.

And that's also not what the police said.

Man you Tigers fans REALLY only see what you want to see hey?
 

Defacto

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My point is that it is incorrect for the police to state as a fact that no crime has been committed and wrong for Richmond fans to be parroting that statement.

As for what the AFL and Richmond do with dusty I'm not sure but if the incident occurred as reported (I'm yet to see anything that actually refutes the victim's account) then he deserves at least to miss several games in season and a hefty fine. My reasoning on that is because he's made an absolute goose of himself and thrown the AFL and players into the spotlight at a time when Australian society is saying that violence towards or abuse of women is not to be tolerated.
didn't the police statement refute that anything illegal occurred?

are you saying you want him suspended even without evidence of anything actually occurring?
 

Freya

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He still got caught doing something illegal (Martin wasn't found to have done something illegal). I don't think that we should hand out punishments based on drunkeness or lucidity.

Martin should be punished based on the AFLs codes of conduct and laws, but also by what is proven. It has been proven that he was drunk, and should be punished for that and that alone.
I agree he should only be punished on what is proven, and the only thing proven is that he made an apology so the focus should be just on that. Everyone has to apologize from time-to-time but it's pretty serious when the apology contains references to a defenceless woman possibly feeling threatened. The fact he can't remember aggravates it. It's very poor and disrespectful behaviour and if Tiger fans are ok with that then you've got to ask yourselves if you care about the bloke's welfare long-term or if you just want to see him play and don't care if he runs off the rails later.
 
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