Scandal Dustin Martin in drunken scuffle

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Sorry to disappoint you but you will cop whatever sentence the AFL decides on.

What else can you do? Dump a pile of shit on the doors of AFL House?
It's interesting. If the AFL suspend Martin for any significant amount of time, I assume that will be without pay or accompanied by a fine. Martin would be well within his rights to sue the AFL for punishing a player after a police investigation found him innocent, and hus punishment resulting in a loss of monetary payment. It's why I believe that the AFL should only punish due to codes of conduct and bringing the game into disrepute.
 
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People are suggesting that only a court can determine if a crime happened or not. If that was the case courts would need to be presented with every single case, regardless of what the investigation found.
Again I want to be clear, only a jury of our peers can determibe whether a crine has occurred or not.

The courts provide the setting, ensure fairness of proceedings and hand down a punishment should someone be found guilty. They do not determine whether a crime has been committed.

The role of police is evidence gathering and whether there is sufficient evidence to charge someone of a crime based on their understanding of a criminal legislation. They technically don't determine a crime, just whether a certain incident fits the definition of a crime and that there is sufficient evidence (beyond probable doubt) that a crime has been committed.

But only a jury of our peers determines whether a crime has occurred.
 

lethalselbow

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Smart move by the woman involved. Not sure who would want those charming chivalrous Richmond masses thanking them with their kind words and good intentions.

Well done, Richmond fans. The majority of you are a credit to society and make the world a finer place to be in.
 

DrMike

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It's interesting. If the AFL suspend Martin for any significant amount of time, I assume that will be without pay or accompanied by a fine. Martin would be well within his rights to sue the AFL for punishing a player after a police investigation found him innocent, and hus punishment resulting in a loss of monetary payment. It's why I believe that the AFL should only punish due to codes of conduct and bringing the game into disrepute.
That's heading into demonstrable defamation territory.
 

Feerits Elf

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People are suggesting that only a court can determine if a crime happened or not.
Well, those people are half correct. A court is the final arbiter of fact as to whether a person committed a crime.
If that was the case courts would need to be presented with every single case, regardless of what the investigation found.
wat

Why would courts need to be presented with "every single case"?
 

mick

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Again I want to be clear, only a jury of our peers can determibe whether a crine has occurred or not.

The courts provide the setting, ensure fairness of proceedings and hand down a punishment should someone be found guilty. They do not determine whether a crime has been committed.

The role of police is evidence gathering and whether there is sufficient evidence to charge someone of a crime based on their understanding of a criminal legislation. They technically don't determine a crime, just whether a certain incident fits the definition of a crime and that there is sufficient evidence (beyond probable doubt) that a crime has been committed.

But only a jury of our peers determines whether a crime has occurred.
Say what now??? You mean Hodge isn't guilty of drink driving??? Yippeee!!!!

I'm sure a lot of magistrates will be flabbergasted to find out that they can't determine guilt, maybe you should send them an email. Come to think of it, the High court doesn't have a Jury of peers either, hmm better cc them in your email
 
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Say what now??? You mean Hodge isn't guilty of drink driving??? Yippeee!!!!

I'm sure a lot of magistrates will be flabbergasted to find out that they can't determine guilt, maybe you should send them an email. Come to think of it, the High court doesn't have a Jury of peers either, hmm better cc them in your email
Hahaha sorry good point, I meant a crime of this nature. Obviously certain traffic and other crimes as deemed by law that don't require a jury.
 

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DrMike

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Smart move by the woman involved. Not sure who would want those charming chivalrous Richmond masses thanking them with their kind words and good intentions.

Well done, Richmond fans. The majority of you are a credit to society and make the world a finer place to be in.
Glass houses champ.

I don't think it was a good idea by her at all if what happened is as she initially reported. Social position is no justification for violence against women and Martin should be held accountable if he actually did it. Instead now there is going to be a reinforced perception that if you pressure the victim to not provide a statement then you can get away with violence against women. That's a horrible outcome. Police can and will suppress identifying the victim if need be. While I am mindful of stress it might add to her, she needed to provide a statement and progress this if it happened.
 

SnakeMan86

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What's criminality got to do with it? What crime did Cousins commit when the Eagles sacked him? The Tigers and AFL have sponsors who won't cop boorish behaviour especially possible threatening behaviour against women in public as per Martin's apology. This is a really big focus of the AFL at the moment.

Things have changed. Farmer and Bock would be rubbed out these days. The Hodge and Franklin cases did not involve possible threats against women so aren't relevant. You can bleat all you want but Dusty is going to get punished, that's guaranteed.

Whoever told him to make that apology absolutely threw him under a bus.
Umm probably the video evidence of him sharding up....
Read my posts..... I agree he should be sanctioned...... but its what for thats the point.
Here's cleared by police so he should be punished for an alcohol related incident, not violence against a women.
So now your saying he should be rubbed out due to "Possible" Evidence????
 
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Umm probably the video evidence of him sharding up....
Read my posts..... I agree he should be sanctioned...... but its what for thats the point.
Here's cleared by police so he should be punished for an alcohol related incident, not violence against a women.
So now your saying he should be rubbed out due to "Possible" Evidence????
It's the vibe of the thing.
 

JackFlash

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There's no need to be condescending, just because your argument cannot be sustained. There is no evidence. Hence the unequivocal statement that no criminal activity occurred. Why do some people have so much trouble comprehending that maybe, just maybe, such a statement is exactly what is means, that no crime occurred ?


Or maybe, there was no crime. Sometimes it can be as simple as that. Just because she is a woman doesn't mean that she is beyond embellishing her side of the story


as you say, no evidence no charge. The police reviewed the footage, they spoke to witnesses and found that nothing criminal occurred, the allegations that she was all to ready to make via the media could not be sustained when properly investigated.

I think we all know how statements are recorded. Again, there is no need to be condescending just because you cannot sustain your argument.


Again, even though she chose not to make a statement, it dose not follow that the police will not pursue charges, if they believe an offense occurred. And believe me, under the current political environment regarding domestic violence, the police would have gone in hard if they believe a threat actually did occur. Statement or no statement. After all even PM Turnbull has made DV priority number 1. Unfortunately, for the alleged "victim", she chose to tell her story to sections of the Media and for whatever reason has chosen not to make a statement to the Police. That's not a good look at all. Excuses, such as her not wanting to be identified (she wouldn't be under normal court protocol) don't wash. It only makes her look as if she has something to hide
I certainly don't mean to be condescending, but some of the naive stuff on here from Tiger fans is astounding. Cannot sustain the argument? are you kidding me? Without her statement there is no case, evidence can only be gathered if she provided the police with a statement, without that statement the police have little to go on, what were they going to do? Act on the testimony, hearsay and blurred account of several tanked up patrons? This is exactly what Richmond wanted and that is what i stated would happen back on December 11th. This was an easy fix once the police were involved. A statement is a written document that records what you can recall about the incident in detail and in chronological order. This does not mean that the police do not believe her story, or that she was not a victim of crime. Martin himself has admitted his inappropriate behaviour. This was always going to be the result (no criminal activity) because they simply would not have enough evidence to stand up in court. There is also no evidence of physical contact, it's very easy to defend verbal threats. Objection over ruled. Cheer up, Martin will play Round 1, the Tigers are off the hook, there are different rules for star players, but i doubt we will see the Tigers playing in a "white ribbon" game anytime soon.
 
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Umm probably the video evidence of him sharding up....
Read my posts..... I agree he should be sanctioned...... but its what for thats the point.
Here's cleared by police so he should be punished for an alcohol related incident, not violence against a women.
So now your saying he should be rubbed out due to "Possible" Evidence????
The police stuff is irrelevant, he was never going to be charged. There was no CCTV and the alleged victim was not interested in making a complaint or a statement, for whatever reason. Case closed.

But the apology? What was that for? That's where the punishment has to come in. He upset someone in public and didn't remember if he threatened her or not. Pretty poor behaviour and a bad reflection on club and league but not a hanging offence. Take 2-4 weeks holiday at the start of the season Dusty and let's move on, lesson hopefully learnt because we all want to see this guy play great footy.
 
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Well, those people are half correct. A court is the final arbiter of fact as to whether a person committed a crime.
wat

Why would courts need to be presented with "every single case"?
Yes. Half correct. Because a court is not the only determining party

It is an extension of stupid logic. If a court is the only party that can determine whether or not a crime is committed, then every single instance where a crime MAY have been committed needs to go before the court. Regardless of what the police find, since the logic is the police cannot determine whether or not it is a crime
 
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Lionel Hutz would get Martin Off...
considering it was reported that he punched a wall next to her head and held a chopstick to her eye (and reported as her side of events) then CCTV footage would clearly demonstrate that. As would one of the many witnesses in the restaurant be able to say this happened

You do realise a hell of a lot of crimes are prosecuted without testimony from the victim
 

fleabitten

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Wow. That's a lot of errors in one post.

A video of his antics is evidence.

Getting kicked out of the establishment is evidence.

His apology for his actions is evidence.
Evidence of what? haha...seriously wtf?

I've been kicked out of venues for being drunk and apologized to people the next day if I thought I might have been a dickhead. How is that evidence of a death threat? Evidence of a death threat would be one other person backing up the woman's claim, but somehow a high profile person threatened to stab someone with chopsticks in a crowded restaurant and no-one else noticed.
 

The Darkman

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My point is why did he apologize? Does every bloke who wakes up not recalling the night before suddenly start issuing general apologies?
He apologised, at the instruction of Richmond for being a drunken boofhead. No crime there.

What's criminality got to do with it? What crime did Cousins commit when the Eagles sacked him? The Tigers and AFL have sponsors who won't cop boorish behaviour especially possible threatening behaviour against women in public as per Martin's apology. This is a really big focus of the AFL at the moment.

Things have changed. Farmer and Bock would be rubbed out these days. The Hodge and Franklin cases did not involve possible threats against women so aren't relevant. You can bleat all you want but Dusty is going to get punished, that's guaranteed.
Cousins was sacked because he was as high as a kite on illegal substances. Where is this boorish behaviour against women? Dustin Martin should be investigated by the police. Oh, he was investigated & it was found no crime had occurred.

Dustin Martin was threatening towards women. Report him to the police!!! Oh, that's right he was investigated & there was no victim.

Sure, Dustin will be punished for being a drunken boofhead in public. So where is this evidence of threatening behaviour towards women? When you find this evidence, get off your high horse forward it to the Victorian Police!!!
 

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To those still grappling with the concept that police have stated no crime took place.

I don't think there is anyone here who does not think violence in society whether it be against women, children or men is a huge problem. And many would agree the AFL has been too soft on players in the past. But if you are looking for an example to warn other players well sorry but Dustin Martin is not your guy no matter how much you'd like him to be.

The best outcome is for other players to recognise this as a wake up call and to be good little boys lest they be subject to the full force of the la... media.
 

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Although it was a wild goose chase and an unfortunate waste of resources, full credit to Victoria Police for thoroughly investigating the matter and revealing the truth. The evidence must've been pretty damning for them to come out and dismiss the incident (or lack of) in the manner that they did. No talk of "insufficient evidence" just a blatant "no criminal offence took place". Well done.
 
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