Dustin Martin is better than Dangerfield

AjsGuns

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Personally I wouldn't have Judd anywhere near Ablett. His best years were brief, Ablett clearly outshone him once he moved to midfield and he has lasted far, far longer and still playing at a high level.

Of that third group, I'd be tempted to have Fyfe, Dangerfield, and Martin as high or higher than any of the others.
I agree with virtually everything you said, I placed GAJ in a tier above Judd. Only have GAJ, Judd, Hird and Voss ahead of Fyfe, Danger and Dusty over the last 25 years (midfielders only)
 

mc snooza

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lol give me a break mate!
Ablett averaged 15 & 4 for the best part of 12 years.
Played in a similar team as the current Geelong side which was never the best team in the comp, but only got as far as Dangerfield (Ablett) took them.

Martin's good for 25 & 1 and playing in a team where another bloke is a 5 x AA and arguably the most dominant team of the last three years. Martin's a champion but he's nothing compared to Ablett Snr.

Funnily enough, it's Richmond supporters doing their best to downplay Ablett and that's bizarre, he only ever averaged 17 & 6 against your mob. Tormented me thinks :)
Just my opinion, Ablett was an amazing player great althete and full forward.
Dustin Martin won single handley a team a flag that had not won one for 40 years. In that yeah he won the brownlow and his first norm Smith medal.
He's still got his best football in front of him. I've got Dusty, Ablett jnr and Carey as the best I have seen. Prob Ablett senior and Lockett not far behind.

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mc snooza

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GAJ and Judd are ahead comfortably..

GAJ
‐--------
Judd
---------
Voss
Hird
Fyfe
Dangerfield
Martin
Buckley
Cousins
-----------
Black
Swan
S Mitchell
Riccuito
Etc etc
(Just examples of this tier)

Danger and Dusty in the same tier for me. In the minoroty but I think Danger's marginally better. Martin GOAT talk is dumb, objectively his behind GAJ just looking at peers, before you consider past legends..

Would struggle to be a top 5 midfielder of the past 25 years, GAJ, Judd, Voss and Hird ahead, then there's an argument for #5th with Fyfe, Danger, Dusty, Cousins etc
I would just like to remind you that Dustin Martin kicked 4 goals in the last AFL grand final, and won his second norm Smith medal.
The week before that he scorched Geelong and Dangerfield.
I don't think Danger is anywhere near him.

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catscollector

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Just my opinion, Ablett was an amazing player great althete and full forward.
Dustin Martin won single handley a team a flag that had not won one for 40 years. In that yeah he won the brownlow and his first norm Smith medal.
He's still got his best football in front of him. I've got Dusty, Ablett jnr and Carey as the best I have seen. Prob Ablett senior and Lockett not far behind.

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Martin did not single handley win your team a flag in 2017.
He was a big part of the success but he was in the right place at the right time.

It's laughable to even put Martin in the same category as Carey. It's not even close. It only indicates your age by doing so.
 

BJK#5

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End of the day
Dangerfield
Brownlow - 1
Premierships - 0
Norm Smith's - 0

Martin
Brownlow - 1
Premierships - 2
Norm Smith's - 2
Dangerfield
All Australian - 7
B&F - 4

Martin
All Australian - 3
B&F - 2

Individually Dangerfield absolutely stacks up in terms of accolades
 

Partridge

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Martin did not single handley win your team a flag in 2017.
He was a big part of the success but he was in the right place at the right time.

It's laughable to even put Martin in the same category as Carey. It's not even close. It only indicates your age by doing so.
Yeah talk about a badly used phrase.

I don't think any player - from any club - has "single handedly" won a game in years. Decades perhaps. It's more of a team game now than it ever has been.

Martin was absolutely brilliant in 2017, but he had support from an entire team that clicked at the right time. Just like Ablett did with Geelong a decade earlier (and Carey with North while we're at it). The idea of a great player carrying his side (like the Judd "shoulders are sore from carrying the team" garbage) is a total myth.
 

THE_GUN

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Dangerfield
All Australian - 7
B&F - 4

Martin
All Australian - 3
B&F - 2

Individually Dangerfield absolutely stacks up in terms of accolades
B & F in a premiership year along with a Norm Smith is worth 5 best / fairest in anybodys world
But if you were to ask any player what would they prefer AA or a premiership i think you will find that Dusty wins hands down

Anyway Danger has 2 seasons on Dusty , I can see dusty in 5-6 years going past these
 

Forward Press

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B & F in a premiership year along with a Norm Smith is worth 5 best / fairest in anybodys world
But if you were to ask any player what would they prefer AA or a premiership i think you will find that Dusty wins hands down

Anyway Danger has 2 seasons on Dusty , I can see dusty in 5-6 years going past these
Josh Gibson is therefore twice the player of Dustin Martin.

Steven Armstrong has had a better career than Nick Riewoldt.

etc etc

Always hate those that bang on about premiership medals as somehow being vastly superior to the other accolades like Brownlows, All Australian selections etc.

Of course every player would swap all their medals for a premiership but that doesn't diminish their worth.
 

THE_GUN

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Josh Gibson is therefore twice the player of Dustin Martin.

Steven Armstrong has had a better career than Nick Riewoldt.

etc etc

Always hate those that bang on about premiership medals as somehow being vastly superior to the other accolades like Brownlows, All Australian selections etc.

Of course every player would swap all their medals for a premiership but that doesn't diminish their worth.
When was the last time the 2 player you mentioned actually had a premiership winning season like Dusty or dominated games on a consistent level as Dusty

I also Always hate those people who bring up random names to compare , Its like me saying Liam Baker is a better player than Eddie Betts , Your argument is stupid as this is a direct comparison of 2 players that are on an even level to a degree and career
 

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Forward Press

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When was the last time the 2 player you mentioned actually had a premiership winning season like Dusty or dominated games on a consistent level as Dusty

I also Always hate those people who bring up random names to compare , Its like me saying Liam Baker is a better player than Eddie Betts , Your argument is stupid as this is a direct comparison of 2 players that are on an even level to a degree and career
Exactly, it's all about context. Dangerfield and Martin are comparable because of their roles, career progression, status etc but Dangerfield cannot win flags singlehandedly - premierships are a team effort.

Dustin Martin is certainly a better player than Josh Gibson but if you're going to rely on the metrics you proposed Josh Gibson has had more B+Fs in a premiership year, and more premierships, than Martin. Is Josh Gibson a better player?

You weigh up all their accolades together, but let's not pretend having a flag next to their name immediately elevates them another level.
 

THE_GUN

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Exactly, it's all about context. Dangerfield and Martin are comparable because of their roles, career progression, status etc but Dangerfield cannot win flags singlehandedly - premierships are a team effort.

Dustin Martin is certainly a better player than Josh Gibson but if you're going to rely on the metrics you proposed Josh Gibson has had more B+Fs in a premiership year, and more premierships, than Martin. Is Josh Gibson a better player?

You weigh up all their accolades together, but let's not pretend having a flag next to their name immediately elevates them another level.
Whilst i do agree with the highlighted , There are many informed people who say that without Dusty Richmond would not have won the 2017 premiership
This is where the 2 Norm Smith medals come into the equation and being able to perform to this level in the biggest game of the year - Dusty has done this 2 times where in the prelim we seen what happened to danger - Missing in action
 

Forward Press

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Whilst i do agree with the highlighted , There are many informed people who say that without Dusty Richmond would not have won the 2017 premiership
This is where the 2 Norm Smith medals come into the equation and being able to perform to this level in the biggest game of the year - Dusty has done this 2 times where in the prelim we seen what happened to danger - Missing in action
Without Dom Sheed we wouldn't have made and then won the Grand Final but I'm not going to tout him as elite or a superstar of the game.

Dangerfield has done plenty in finals, let's not rewrite history here. Sure, Martin may have performed better overall but no matter what you think of Geelong or Dangerfield as a person the guy is a freaking jet that is proven in big games.
 

THE_GUN

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Without Dom Sheed we wouldn't have made and then won the Grand Final but I'm not going to tout him as elite or a superstar of the game.

Dangerfield has done plenty in finals, let's not rewrite history here. Sure, Martin may have performed better overall but no matter what you think of Geelong or Dangerfield as a person the guy is a freaking jet that is proven in big games.
I like Dangerfield as a player but he really has not done alot in finals to be perfectly honest, I wont look into it as i cant be stuffed but every final i have watched him play he has not been the player that tears games apart or for a long enough time. He has done it for a half but usually has a very quite quarter or half.

Dusty at his best is better than Dangerfield at his best IMO
 

Forward Press

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I like Dangerfield as a player but he really has not done alot in finals to be perfectly honest, I wont look into it as i cant be stuffed but every final i have watched him play he has not been the player that tears games apart or for a long enough time. He has done it for a half but usually has a very quite quarter or half.

Dusty at his best is better than Dangerfield at his best IMO
Well not many players have 4 quarter efforts week in week out so I don't hold that against him. Looking at some recent finals with Dangerfield...

2019 PF - 27 disposals, 7 clearances, 4 inside 50s, 1 goal in a loss to the Tigers
2019 SF - 18 disposals, 5 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 0 goals in a win against the Eagles
2019 QF - 32 disposals, 7 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 1 goal in a loss to the Pies
2018 EF - 25 disposals (behind only Ablett), but 13 clangers in a loss to Melbourne
2017 finals (3 games, 2 big losses and 1 big win) - averaged 26 disposals, 5 marks, 6 tackles, more than 2 goals a game - played more forward that year
2016 finals (2 games, 1 win and 1 loss) - averaged 37 disposals, 8 inside 50s, 8 clearances
2015 finals (2 games, 1 win and 1 loss) - averaged 28 disposals, 6 inside 50s, 7 clearances - his last year with Adelaide

From the last five finals series his only real somewhat lousy games were a win against us this year and that Melbourne game.

Adelaide didn't play finals in 2013 and 2014 and 2012 he was pretty mediocre, but he was just a kid back then.
 

THE_GUN

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Well not many players have 4 quarter efforts week in week out so I don't hold that against him. Looking at some recent finals with Dangerfield...

2019 PF - 27 disposals, 7 clearances, 4 inside 50s, 1 goal in a loss to the Tigers
2019 SF - 18 disposals, 5 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 0 goals in a win against the Eagles
2019 QF - 32 disposals, 7 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 1 goal in a loss to the Pies
2018 EF - 25 disposals (behind only Ablett), but 13 clangers in a loss to Melbourne
2017 finals (3 games, 2 big losses and 1 big win) - averaged 26 disposals, 5 marks, 6 tackles, more than 2 goals a game - played more forward that year
2016 finals (2 games, 1 win and 1 loss) - averaged 37 disposals, 8 inside 50s, 8 clearances
2015 finals (2 games, 1 win and 1 loss) - averaged 28 disposals, 6 inside 50s, 7 clearances - his last year with Adelaide

From the last five finals series his only real somewhat lousy games were a win against us this year and that Melbourne game.

Adelaide didn't play finals in 2013 and 2014 and 2012 he was pretty mediocre, but he was just a kid back then.
Collecting possessions has never been the issue with Dangerfield and he can get 2 touhes a quarter but what he does with them and hurting the other team is the issue.

20 touches from Dusty is better than 30+ from dangerfield

I will just use the 1st example against the tigers in 2019 , 1st half was brilliant and dominating whilst having a good hit out against Dusty where he was ontop
2nd Quarter totally went missing and Dusty killed them and dominated the game.

but if you look at the stats as above Danger was the best on the ground
 

Forward Press

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Collecting possessions has never been the issue with Dangerfield and he can get 2 touhes a quarter but what he does with them and hurting the other team is the issue.

20 touches from Dusty is better than 30+ from dangerfield

I will just use the 1st example against the tigers in 2019 , 1st half was brilliant and dominating whilst having a good hit out against Dusty where he was ontop
2nd Quarter totally went missing and Dusty killed them and dominated the game.

but if you look at the stats as above Danger was the best on the ground
Well sure if you want to cherry pick that game, but I've given you loads of other finals where his dominance is difficult to question.

For example, he was quiet against us this year in the semi final but I'm not using that one game as conclusive evidence that he is shit in September. And as I said before, it is pretty hard for players to consistently drag teams over the line as you are just one of 22 players wearing the jumper. Gary Ablett Jr is probably the last one that did that in his time at Gold Coast.
 

THE_GUN

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Well sure if you want to cherry pick that game, but I've given you loads of other finals where his dominance is difficult to question.

For example, he was quiet against us this year in the semi final but I'm not using that one game as conclusive evidence that he is shit in September. And as I said before, it is pretty hard for players to consistently drag teams over the line as you are just one of 22 players wearing the jumper. Gary Ablett Jr is probably the last one that did that in his time at Gold Coast.
I didnt cherry pick that game but was the 1st on your list and the others i cant remember the exact circumstances but i watch alot of football and every game every week gets recorded and go to around 2-3 games a week. Every game i have seen Dangerfield play that was a high pressure game of 2 competing clubs more likely than not he has produced amazing football but for limited periods like a half or 3/4 where he dominates and then goes missing

but he just does not hurt the other team with his touches
 

Sttew

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He has done it for a half but usually has a very quite quarter or half.

Dusty at his best is better than Dangerfield at his best IMO
What a gross generalisation. “Usually has a quiet quarter or half”. Yes that was true in the PF, but there are countless examples of Danger giving 100% and being Geelong’s Best by a country mile

This thread is becoming a revision of history by grossly insecure Tigers supporters who need to keep telling everyone how good Richmond and Dusty are.

By the way, What did Dusty do in 2018?
 

THE_GUN

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What a gross generalisation. “Usually has a quiet quarter or half”. Yes that was true in the PF, but there are countless examples of Danger giving 100% and being Geelong’s Best by a country mile

This thread is becoming a revision of history by grossly insecure Tigers supporters who need to keep telling everyone how good Richmond and Dusty are.

By the way, What did Dusty do in 2018?
Sounds like a grossly insecure Geelong supporter there

So tell me what did you think about a normal Dangerfield game against the Tigers in the prelim ?
 

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