Opinion Dustin Martin is better than Dangerfield

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Vassp

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GAS went missing in many finals where he didn't get his team across the line, Dusty was more consistent in finals than GAS.
But GAS has done things many wont ever do -it was a different time then though.
 

Genghis Tron

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Dusty is the best I've seen in my time. Above all the greats like

Ablett Snr and Jnr
Hird
Carey
Judd
Voss
Goodes


The guys a fu**n phenomenon.
I reckon the fact that people are putting him in the conversation with players of that quality is good enough.

I'm just happy that I get to watch him without being annoyed that he isn't on my team.
 

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catscollector

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GAS went missing in many finals where he didn't get his team across the line, Dusty was more consistent in finals than GAS.
But GAS has done things many wont ever do -it was a different time then though.
I disagree with this.
He played in 16 finals and out of all of them, I count 1991 EF, 1994 PF, 1994 GF, 1995 GF and 1996 QF as terrible games.
All the rest he was fine in. A handful of them he was great in.

A lot of people seem to ignore a few of Dusty's poorer finals performances. 2013 EF, 2015 EF, 2018 PF, 2020 QF.

And like you say, different times. Ablett had a bloke hanging off him most of the game. Guys like Worsfold, Frawley, Brennan, Silvagni, Martin . . . these guys were at the extreme end of following your shadow.
Martin's had the complete luxury of doing his business without too much negating at all. He excels due to his running capacity and extraordinary footy skills but back in the 80's and 90's, he would have copped it unfairly. I have no doubt he would have been a perennial tribunal visitor just as Ablett was.
 

Vassp

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I disagree with this.
He played in 16 finals and out of all of them, I count 1991 EF, 1994 PF, 1994 GF, 1995 GF and 1996 QF as terrible games.
All the rest he was fine in. A handful of them he was great in.

A lot of people seem to ignore a few of Dusty's poorer finals performances. 2013 EF, 2015 EF, 2018 PF, 2020 QF.

And like you say, different times. Ablett had a bloke hanging off him most of the game. Guys like Worsfold, Frawley, Brennan, Silvagni, Martin . . . these guys were at the extreme end of following your shadow.
Martin's had the complete luxury of doing his business without too much negating at all. He excels due to his running capacity and extraordinary footy skills but back in the 80's and 90's, he would have copped it unfairly. I have no doubt he would have been a perennial tribunal visitor just as Ablett was.
The teams were quit different then and so were defenses.
Players get closed down so quickly these days.
Ablett will always be special and anyone who kicks 14 goals in a game (even against a hapless Richmond) has got something special. Just a freak of a athlete.
 

Partridge

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The teams were quit different then and so were defenses.
Players get closed down so quickly these days.
Ablett will always be special and anyone who kicks 14 goals in a game (even against a hapless Richmond) has got something special. Just a freak of a athlete.
That's the thing though, he did it three times. Sydney weren't much better but Essendon won the flag. That year.
 

getthefooty

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A lot of people seem to ignore a few of Dusty's poorer finals performances. 2013 EF, 2015 EF, 2018 PF, 2020 QF.
Lol, odd call to try and highlight Dusty's "poor" finals performances in this argument. Dusty's played in 15 finals, and was BOG or very close to it in all of the ones you haven't highlighted bar the 2014 EF v Port where we got spanked (that's 10/15 finals he was arguably BOG in). He was probably our best player v Port with 29 touches.

Of the ones you have highlighted - in the 2015 EF he had our second most touches and was in our best. In the 2020 QF was also in our best (arguably BOG at half time but faded with the team). 2018 PF and 2013 EF I'll probably give you (2013 EF he was pretty young and was below average but wasn't horrible, 2018 PF he was on one leg). Ridiculous record.
 

Ricky Vaughn

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Of the 12 Finals Martin's played (since he became the player he is), it's quicker to list the games he wasn't a clear BOG.
2017 - PF
2018 - PF
2019 - PF
2020 - QF
In the 17 PF he was equal with Rioli and Cotchin and in the 19 PF (his worst performance in a win) he was still about the 7th best player on the ground.

His record, for lack of a better term, is absolutely fโ€™ed.
 
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Tiger_Of_Old

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This thread speaks volumes of the Richmond supporter base as a whole.

Instead of celebrating and championing the culmination of the most difficult season in the history of VFL/AFL history, and a third premiership, they are here in droves, in fervent and rabid hatred for one of the best players of his generation.

So quick they are to criticise, to hate, that it reveals much about themselves. A deep, deep insecurity that runs through the legacy of the club and the mindset of their supporters. Insecure people often try to make you feel insecure themselves, they feel compelled to rub their achievements in the face of others, and constantly complain and bring others down.

It comes, in my view, from years, perhaps decades, of being the laughing stock of the competition. Being absolutely belted by Geelong for decades, continual disappointment, being the subject of intense mockery - it must take an emotional toll on a person and this shared abuse must be felt and lived through the supporter base as a whole. I first experienced it in the 2017 Qualifying Final. Never had I seen such disgraceful behaviour from a supporter base. Inappropriate remarks and glances were made to me in the toilets from dozens of Richmond supporters in the toilets at half-time. But it can almost be understood when you look at the recent history of the club.

In my time following the game, this level of pettiness and insecurity is completely unrivalled by rival clubs. Hawthorn, or even Collingwood, did not come close to this level of vitriol, bitterness, fixation and hatred of our club and of our players. It's not healthy and can only lead to unhappiness.

Don't let hatred become your legacy, Tigers supporters.
Decades being the laughing stock?It makes it sound like we're the only club to have such a dubious honor.Think all clubs have been down that road.
However i'd just point out to you that this current Dynasty is our 2nd of with the mid 60's to mid 70's as out first Dynasty.
Congratulations BTW on your first dynasty at the end of the last decade. ;)
 

catscollector

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Of the ones you have highlighted - in the 2015 EF he had our second most touches and was in our best. In the 2020 QF was also in our best (arguably BOG at half time but faded with the team). 2018 PF and 2013 EF I'll probably give you (2013 EF he was pretty young and was below average but wasn't horrible, 2018 PF he was on one leg). Ridiculous record.
Not even close to https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/fts_match_statistics?mid=6166&sby=14#t1

In the 2020 QF was also in our best (arguably BOG at half time but faded with the team). 2018 PF and 2013 EF I'll probably give you (2013 EF he was pretty young and was below average but wasn't horrible, 2018 PF he was on one leg). Ridiculous record.
No, in the 2020 QF he was well below par. He was brilliant in the first quarter with 7 touches but did very little afterwards https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/li...m/news-story/f23c63e9ba261b0e57902d0257af6376

In 2013 he may have been 22yrs and played 100 games, but he still played a poor game.
2018, I agree, was injury riddled but just as it was for Ablett Snr on the eve of the 1995 finals with a hamstring injury, no excuses for these champions if fit to play.
 

Back One Out

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That's the thing though, he did it three times.
Sydney weren't much better but Essendon won the flag. That year.
LOL. Talk it up, Partridge... :D

Essendon fluked a premiership in '93, but they didn't win the flag thanks to their outstanding defensive stoppers
  • They had Mark Harvey (184cm) pinch hitting at centre half back.
  • At full back, they had a skinny, gawky 17 year old kid from Essendon Grammar named Dustin Fletcher.
That's how short-handed they were for defenders that year.

It was Peak Ablett that day. He kicked his 14 goals against a mixture of 17yo Dustin Fletcher, journeyman back pocket David Grenvold (180cm), and a 20yo James Hird who had never played in defence in his life before that day (and he had NFI against the rampant Ablett!)

It was Fletcher's 3rd game of senior football and Hirdy's 10th game for the Bombers.

The game was a wide-open high-scoring shoot out played in perfect conditions. Essendon 23.18 (156) def Geelong 19.18 (132). 78 scoring shots! Any gun full forward would've feasted vs the Bombers that day. The opposition full forwards kicked bags of 6 in Essendon's 3 previous games (Danny Del-Re, Michael Werner and a 19 year-old Saverio Rocca). Not exactly household names. Ablett would've broken Fred Fanning's record if he'd kicked straighter. He had 21 scoring shots.
 
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Partridge

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Of the 12 Finals Martin's played (since he became the player he is), it's quicker to list the games he wasn't a clear BOG.
2017 - PF
2018 - PF
2019 - PF
2020 - QF
In the 17 PF he was equal with Rioli and Cotchin and in the 19 PF (his worst performance in a win) he was still about the 7th best player on the ground.

His record, for lack of a better term, is absolutely fโ€™ed.
I was going to say my one time recollection was that he was pretty impressive in that 2017 Prelim. I remember a few goals absolutely breaking GWS open. But could see Cotchin getting the nod that day.
 

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Partridge

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LOL. Talk it up, Partridge... :D

Essendon fluked a premiership in '93, but they didn't win the flag thanks to their outstanding defensive stoppers
  • They had Mark Harvey (184cm) pinch hitting at centre half back.
  • At full back, they had a skinny, gawky 17 year old kid from Essendon Grammar named Dustin Fletcher.
That's how short-handed they were for defenders that year.

It was Peak Ablett that day. He kicked his 14 goals against a mixture of 17yo Dustin Fletcher, journeyman back pocket David Grenvold (180cm), and a 20yo James Hird who had never played in defence in his life before that day (and he had NFI against the rampant Ablett!)

It was Fletcher's 3rd game of senior football and Hirdy's 10th game for the Bombers.

The game was a wide-open high-scoring shoot out played in perfect conditions. Essendon 23.18 (156) def Geelong 19.18 (132). 78 scoring shots! Any gun full forward would've feasted vs the Bombers that day. The opposition full forwards kicked bags of 6 in Essendon's 3 previous games (Danny Del-Re, Michael Werner and a 19 year-old Saverio Rocca). Not exactly household names. Ablett would've broken Fred Fanning's record if he'd kicked straighter. He had 21 scoring shots.
Wasn't talking up anything. Merely pointing out it wasn't just feasting on rubbish teams.

That Essendon team would be one of the weaker premiership sides in living memory, no doubt at all.

He also had Chris Daniher and Derek Kickett at times too.
 

Partridge

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I don't doubt that but I still think Danger is unfairly maligned because of a bad GF and and bad half vs Richmond last year. It feels like he needs to carry our team because we don't have the talent. He has generally been in our best in most finals he has played for us. As I said previously, I'm under no illusion that he's better than Dusty or anything, because he isn't - but he isn't a serial finals flop like people seem to think.
He is a serial underperformer in finals though. It's not just the Grand final. He's had more poor games than good ones in the last three years for sure. And in two of the 2017 finals he had no impact whatsoever.
 

getthefooty

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I was going to say my one time recollection was that he was pretty impressive in that 2017 Prelim. I remember a few goals absolutely breaking GWS open. But could see Cotchin getting the nod that day.
Yeah I reckon it was Dusty that day. He killed the game off in a 10-15 minute burst from memory.
 

harrythetiger

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Not even close to https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/fts_match_statistics?mid=6166&sby=14#t1



No, in the 2020 QF he was well below par. He was brilliant in the first quarter with 7 touches but did very little afterwards https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/li...m/news-story/f23c63e9ba261b0e57902d0257af6376

In 2013 he may have been 22yrs and played 100 games, but he still played a poor game.
2018, I agree, was injury riddled but just as it was for Ablett Snr on the eve of the 1995 finals with a hamstring injury, no excuses for these champions if fit to play.
Not just close to, bang on.
Per your link he was Richmond's second highest disposal winner with 21, behind Miles with 22, and was named in our best https://www.afl.com.au/news/76685/kangaroos-bounce-out-tigers-in-mcg-thriller
Not a fantastic game by any measure but not a poor one either
 

Wojcinski

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He is a serial underperformer in finals though. It's not just the Grand final. He's had more poor games than good ones in the last three years for sure. And in two of the 2017 finals he had no impact whatsoever.
Remind which two games did he have no impact whatsoever again?

vs Richmond; 31 touches, 1.1, 5 tackles, 3 clearances, 9 clangers
vs Sydney; 26 touches, 4.3, 4 tackles, 2 clearances, 3 clangers
vs Adelaide; 24 touches, 2.3, 9 tackles, 5 clearances, 3 clangers


I think you're confusing Danger's impact with the result of the game. His overall finals averages are almost exactly the same as his overall h&a averages
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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GAS went missing in many finals where he didn't get his team across the line, Dusty was more consistent in finals than GAS.
But GAS has done things many wont ever do -it was a different time then though.
To be fair, most of Ablett's finals were played in his 30s and he was cooked by the gf. Geelong also didn't have much of a backline, it was all out attack, a gun midfield that rarely showed up in grand finals and a gun forward line. If he didn't play Geelong probably wouldn't have made 4 grand finals, like Carey at North
 
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Herne Hill Hammer

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He is a serial underperformer in finals though. It's not just the Grand final. He's had more poor games than good ones in the last three years for sure. And in two of the 2017 finals he had no impact whatsoever.
Yep, I reckon he gets too anxious and tries too hard, calling it choking or whatever. His numbers can look good in finals but in reality he has zero impact, it's all under pressure.

Why is this thread still running, it shouldn't even be a question anymore?
 

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