Traded Dylan Shiel [traded with future 2nd to Essendon for #9 and future 1st round pick]

[threesixpio]

Have you considered that perhaps Clarko is running ToM into the ground at 97% TOG because the depth is a bit, shall we say, shallow.
Take ToM off the ground for a rest and the veritable flood gates open.
That’s why you desperately needed Dylan, but unfortunately for Hawthorn he chose the red and black empire.
He’s quite astute, Dylan.

If we needed Dylan why did we choose Wingerz? You always fail to answer this

 

[Bombfire]

If we needed Dylan why did we choose Wingerz? You always fail to answer this

You should be reported for gross and incessant misfeasance.
And for the umpteenth time, you needed Dyls but had to settle for Wingerz. Remember Dyls' phone call an all the other supporting facts.

 

[threesixpio]

You should be reported for gross and incessant misfeasance.
And for the umpteenth time, you needed Dyls but had to settle for Wingerz. Remember Dyls' phone call an all the other supporting facts.

You’re allowed to repeat your mis truths but I am prevented from presenting the more reasonable version of events? This supposed phone call is something you keep coming back to. Like I said, I very much doubt Shiel would want to admit his disappointment once at his new club. Maybe he was relieved to not go to Carlton too.

What I have to support my argument is our decision to choose Wingard who Clarko wanted for years. You can’t knock back opportunities like that. When weighing up Shiel verses Wingard are you seriously saying you would choose Shiel? Thank god you’re not in recruitment

Anyway Bombfire, like I said, I am happy for your club either way. Shiel should be great for the Bombers. Good luck this year

 

[Bombfire]

You’re allowed to repeat your mis truths but I am prevented from presenting the more reasonable version of events? This supposed phone call is something you keep coming back to. Like I said, I very much doubt Shiel would want to admit his disappointment once at his new club. Maybe he was relieved to not go to Carlton too.

What I have to support my argument is our decision to choose Wingard who Clarko wanted for years. You can’t knock back opportunities like that. When weighing up Shiel verses Wingard are you seriously saying you would choose Shiel? Thank god you’re not in recruitment

Anyway Bombfire, like I said, I am happy for your club either way. Shiel should be great for the Bombers. Good luck this year

Lots of other facts to take into account, you know the fact that all clubs in the race for Dyls knew he would come at a decent ask. Any idea that Hawthorn pulled out because of the asking price is absurd and easily denounced. Gosh, it took a good 10 days to settle the Dyl deal after he had phoned Clarko with the sad news.
As for Shiel over Wingard, it's a no brainer.
Wingerz is the Chautauqua of the AFL.
One specimen didn't want to leave cosy Port Adelaide, the other didn't want to leave the barrier and is now in a lush paddock.

 

[threesixpio]

Lots of other facts to take into account, you know the fact that all clubs in the race for Dyls knew he would come at a decent ask. Any idea that Hawthorn pulled out because of the asking price is absurd and easily denounced. Gosh, it took a good 10 days to settle the Dyl deal after he had phoned Clarko with the sad news.
As for Shiel over Wingard, it's a no brainer.
Wingerz is the Chautauqua of the AFL.
One specimen didn't want to leave cosy Port Adelaide, the other didn't want to leave the barrier and is now in a lush paddock.

10 days of attempted backtracking from Dodo.

Look - at the end of the day I’d be happy about what happened. Apparently you have the new Cyril in Mosquito so you wouldn’t be too upset about Wingard wanting to be a Hawk. Should be a good couple of years at Tulla

 

[Bombfire]

10 days of attempted backtracking from Dodo.

Look - at the end of the day I’d be happy about what happened. Apparently you have the new Cyril in Mosquito so you wouldn’t be too upset about Wingard wanting to be a Hawk. Should be a good couple of years at Tulla

If your story had any legs, the only club who backtracked and reneged was Hawthorn. They knew Shiel would come at fair price but left him high and dry. But your story is just that, a story that makes Hawks feel a bit less short changed, after having to make do with Wingerz.

 

[Prochard123]

There's this odd belief that kind of reminds me of the old 'Jobe Watson can't kick' myth. I mean, by the time he got to his mid career, Watson was an excellent kick of the ball, and yet people maintained this belief that he couldn't kick.

The same is currently true of Essendon's midfield. Essendon, pre-Shiel, had one of the better performed midfield groups in the game, from round 9 (when they decided to stop sucking balls) through to the end of the season. I think in its final 14 games, it went something like 11-3 for clearance differentials; meaning it's midfield was beating it's direct opponent most of the time. When you consider that Essendon didn't have a single player in the top 30 for clearances PG, that would seem to suggest that Essendon is near, possibly even the, best side in the competition for sharing the load across its entire group.

And yet people are still running with the 'Essendon needs big-bodied midfielders' schtick. No they don't, they're performing fine. If you're going off that final fourteen games (and yes I'm aware that is being selective) it already has one of the top 4 or 5 midfield groups in the game. And we still expect to see improvement from Parish, Langford, McGrath - let alone by adding in Shiel as well.

So considering the above, I'm not sure why people think inside midfielders are the problem at Essendon. Seems to be one of those things that has been repeated over and over and so people simply believe it to be true, despite the facts not supporting the assertion.

So if they're in the top half dozen sides for disposal efficiency, top half dozen sides for inside 50s, top half dozen for clearances - I'm not sure how people can maintain the belief that Essendon's midfield is the problem. The facts seem to support the idea that it is a strength, and one likely to only get better.

Because Essendon is not in the top half dozen in clearances or inside 50s.....

Clearances-10th in league
Inside 50-7th in league
Tackles-8th in league

Equal 9th on 48 points for 2018 sounds about right.

Essendon's midfield absolutely is/was the problem. Shiel will help but don't expect your midfield to suddenly become "unrivalled/one of the best"

 

[Jade]

Because Essendon is not in the top half dozen in clearances or inside 50s.....

Clearances-10th in league
Inside 50-7th in league
Tackles-8th in league

Equal 9th on 48 points for 2018 sounds about right.

Essendon's midfield absolutely is/was the problem. Shiel will help but don't expect your midfield to suddenly become "unrivalled/one of the best"

I said from round 9.

 

[threesixpio]

I said from round 9.

Yep. After Round 9. My favourite was Round 20. Great performance.

 

[TallyHawk]

If your story had any legs, the only club who backtracked and reneged was Hawthorn. They knew Shiel would come at fair price but left him high and dry. But your story is just that, a story that makes Hawks feel a bit less short changed, after having to make do with Wingerz.

Hawthorn expressed an interest in Shiel, if Shiel was committed to Hawthorn he would've nominated them. Instead he shopped himself around jumping on privates jets, and subsequently started a bidding war. So how has Hawthorn reneged when they were not working exclusively with Shiel.

He then dismissed StKilda as an option.

The next part of the timeline is interesting, the whispers about Chad Wingard started to grow louder even with him stating he wasn't going anywhere. Clarkson has long admired the talented Wingard who ticked a lot of the traits Hawthorn were after a flexible midfielder/forward with X factor with room to grow into his real potential.

Once Wingard was on the table we were all in, somehow retaining our 1st rounder this year.

Shiel was then stuck with a decision Essendon or Carlton and Carlton were not going to cough up pick 1 for him, with minimal other trade options the only real player left standing was Essendon.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gutsroy]

This thread reached its peak when the Dodo unfolded his majesty and rose like a magnificently plumed phoenix from the ashes of the GWS salary cap, grabbed the elephant in the china shop by the bull’s horns and sent Jase McCartney crying home to mummy to complain about the older kids stealing his lunch money.
Is Dodo, is good.

 

[TallyHawk]

This thread reached its peak when the Dodo unfolded his majesty and rose like a magnificently plumed phoenix from the ashes of the GWS salary cap, grabbed the elephant in the china shop by the bull’s horns and sent Jase McCartney crying home to mummy to complain about the older kids stealing his lunch money.
Is Dodo, is good.

Is this the same McCartney that walked away with 2 1st rounders?

 

[Bombfire]

Hawthorn expressed an interest in Shiel, if Shiel was committed to Hawthorn he would've nominated them. Instead he shopped himself around jumping on privates jets, and subsequently started a bidding war. So how has Hawthorn reneged when they were not working exclusively with Shiel.

He then dismissed StKilda as an option.

The next part of the timeline is interesting, the whispers about Chad Wingard started to grow louder even with him stating he wasn't going anywhere. Clarkson has long admired the talented Wingard who ticked a lot of the traits Hawthorn were after a flexible midfielder/forward with X factor with room to grow into his real potential.

Once Wingard was on the table we were all in, somehow retaining our 1st rounder this year.

Shiel was then stuck with a decision Essendon or Carlton and Carlton were not going to cough up pick 1 for him, with minimal other trade options the only real player left standing was Essendon.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Of course he looked around for a decent club, that's what players do. As it turns out, Dylan far preferred a few crownies in the back of Heps ute down in Gippsland watching a local game, than champagne in a lear jet with the Blues.
Unfortunately there's some big fat holes in your supposition that you might want to consider.
One hole in particular that's very pesky, concerns your evasion of any mention of either Shiel dismissing Hawthorn, or Hawthorn dismissing Shiel.
The closest thing we have to any sort of substantive evidence only speaks to Dylan rejecting all clubs that expressed an interest in a trade except of course, Essendon. This comes from two public disclosures, namely Dylan himself, and his manager.
Anything outside that is not worth a canary's tweet.
Having said that, we know Hawthorn needed a midfielder to take the load off ToM who eventually succumbed to 97% TOG towards the end of 2018. Dylan was the standout available gun midfielder for Hawthorn. Alas, he chose Essendon and as soon as this was conveyed to Hawthorn, off they went in pursuit of goal kicking half forward flanker/midfield if I have to, Chad Wingard. Chad was heartbroken to leave Port but realised his poor attitude and emerging dissonance would not be tolerated.
The Hawks will argue they preserved their 2019 number 1 trump card for a possible big name in the next trade period but even Clarko would agree that a Dylan now, and for the next five or six years would have been better than a 'maybe' trade a year down the track. Besides, with Hawthorn looking to slide in 2019 and continue to move away from a premiership window, players for example like Cogs aren't silly and are attracted to clubs with more success likely on the horizon.
Then, in another sign of desperation, the Hawks, having not solved their midfield deficiency with Wingerz, opted to take on a seriously risky proposition in Tom Scully. Sculls would have preferred to ride on the coat tails of Shiel by going to Essendon but the Dons had to stump up some serious coin for the gun midfielder.
As we move into 2019, it would appear that over the trade period Hawthorn have not adequately addressed two major list issues, that of a shallow midfield and a shallow key position forward(s).
It's a big concern if you support the brown and gold.
l

 

[TallyHawk]

Of course he looked around for a decent club, that's what players do. As it turns out, Dylan far preferred a few crownies in the back of Heps ute down in Gippsland watching a local game, than champagne in a lear jet with the Blues.
Unfortunately there's some big fat holes in your supposition that you might want to consider.
One hole in particular that's very pesky, concerns your evasion of any mention of either Shiel dismissing Hawthorn, or Hawthorn dismissing Shiel.
The closest thing we have to any sort of substantive evidence only speaks to Dylan rejecting all clubs that expressed an interest in a trade except of course, Essendon. This comes from two public disclosures, namely Dylan himself, and his manager.
Anything outside that is not worth a canary's tweet.
Having said that, we know Hawthorn needed a midfielder to take the load off ToM who eventually succumbed to 97% TOG towards the end of 2018. Dylan was the standout available gun midfielder for Hawthorn. Alas, he chose Essendon and as soon as this was conveyed to Hawthorn, off they went in pursuit of goal kicking half forward flanker/midfield if I have to, Chad Wingard. Chad was heartbroken to leave Port but realised his poor attitude and emerging dissonance would not be tolerated.
The Hawks will argue they preserved their 2019 number 1 trump card for a possible big name in the next trade period but even Clarko would agree that a Dylan now, and for the next five or six years would have been better than a 'maybe' trade a year down the track. Besides, with Hawthorn looking to slide in 2019 and continue to move away from a premiership window, players for example like Cogs aren't silly and are attracted to clubs with more success likely on the horizon.
Then, in another sign of desperation, the Hawks, having not solved their midfield deficiency with Wingerz, opted to take on a seriously risky proposition in Tom Scully. Sculls would have preferred to ride on the coat tails of Shiel by going to Essendon but the Dons had to stump up some serious coin for the gun midfielder.
As we move into 2019, it would appear that over the trade period Hawthorn have not adequately addressed two major list issues, that of a shallow midfield and a shallow key position forward(s).
It's a big concern if you support the brown and gold.
l

Your under estimating Wingers capacity in the midfield, it’s his flexibility to play multiple positions that makes him more attractive.

Hawks did not reneg on Shiel he was entertaining offers. Another opportunity presented in Wingard and we quickly moved on that, at this point we ruled out Shiel who later nominated Essendon.

Hawks have shown they don’t reneg you only need to look at the O’Meara trade to work that out.

Trade week is fluid what don’t you understand about that.

 

[BigEast]

Move on Hawthorn, just let it go; Hawthorn (they say) didn't want Shiel and Shiel certainly didn't want Hawthorn. Shiel's happy, Hawthorn (should be) happy and Essendon is ecstatic. Hawthorns frequent attempt to convince everyone that they pulled out of the Shiel chase is more of an attempt to convince themselves (regardless of how flimsy the 'evidence' is). And if Hawthorn want to believe that, all good, but it's time to move on Hawthorn.

 

[Bombfire]

Your under estimating Wingers capacity in the midfield, it’s his flexibility to play multiple positions that makes him more attractive.

Hawks did not reneg on Shiel he was entertaining offers. Another opportunity presented in Wingard and we quickly moved on that, at this point we ruled out Shiel who later nominated Essendon.

Hawks have shown they don’t reneg you only need to look at the O’Meara trade to work that out.

Trade week is fluid what don’t you understand about that.

You really needed a dedicated midfielder, someone in between Tom and Jam. Shiel fitted the bill nicely, but alas, anointed EFC..

Now if we examine some of the information out there, it certainly looks like Chad shopped around a fair bit, entertaining a few offers of his own before giving the Hawks the nod, after Dylan had broken the bad news.

Wingard, and his manager Tom Petroro, then went about looking at what clubs would be a good fit.
Even after speaking to several clubs he wasn't convinced he wanted to leave Power, who drafted him at pick No.6 back in 2011.

The best takeaway from that information is that Hawthorn could not move quickly on Wingerz as you would like everyone to believe because even after speaking to a few clubs he wasn't even sure he wanted to really leave Port.

These are the best bits though and it's provenance is all brown and gold as in; www.hawthornfc.com.au ;

9/10/2018: Dylan Shiel picks Essendon
And while the Bombers beat the Blues, the Hawks and the Saints in the race for his signature, they did so with the lowest contract offer of the four clubs.

10/10/2018: Hawthorn stunned into action
Hawthorn's failure to land Dylan Shiel could intensify the speculation over the future of Port Adelaide star Chad Wingard, who remains a possibility to move to Victoria.
Reports on Channel Seven on Tuesday night indicated Wingard was likely request a trade to the Hawks imminently, with the Western Bulldogs also keen on his signature.

17/10/2018: Hawthorn move to sign Wingerz -8 days after Shiel gave them the bad news

...after a meeting with four-time Hawthorn premiership coach Alastair Clarkson, and conversations with ex-teammate Jarman Impey, veteran Hawk Shaun Burgoyne and retired star Cyril Rioli, Wingard made his decision.

Thanks for your efforts.


http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2018-10-19/wingard-ready-for-new-challenge-

 

[TallyHawk]

You really needed a dedicated midfielder, someone in between Tom and Jam. Shiel fitted the bill nicely, but alas, anointed EFC..

Now if we examine some of the information out there, it certainly looks like Chad shopped around a fair bit, entertaining a few offers of his own before giving the Hawks the nod, after Dylan had broken the bad news.

Wingard, and his manager Tom Petroro, then went about looking at what clubs would be a good fit.
Even after speaking to several clubs he wasn't convinced he wanted to leave Power, who drafted him at pick No.6 back in 2011.

The best takeaway from that information is that Hawthorn could not move quickly on Wingerz as you would like everyone to believe because even after speaking to a few clubs he wasn't even sure he wanted to really leave Port.

These are the best bits though and it's provenance is all brown and gold as in; www.hawthornfc.com.au ;

9/10/2018: Dylan Shiel picks Essendon
And while the Bombers beat the Blues, the Hawks and the Saints in the race for his signature, they did so with the lowest contract offer of the four clubs.

10/10/2018: Hawthorn stunned into action
Hawthorn's failure to land Dylan Shiel could intensify the speculation over the future of Port Adelaide star Chad Wingard, who remains a possibility to move to Victoria.
Reports on Channel Seven on Tuesday night indicated Wingard was likely request a trade to the Hawks imminently, with the Western Bulldogs also keen on his signature.

17/10/2018: Hawthorn move to sign Wingerz -8 days after Shiel gave them the bad news

...after a meeting with four-time Hawthorn premiership coach Alastair Clarkson, and conversations with ex-teammate Jarman Impey, veteran Hawk Shaun Burgoyne and retired star Cyril Rioli, Wingard made his decision.

Thanks for your efforts.


http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2018-10-19/wingard-ready-for-new-challenge-

There also reports that Hawthorn put Burton on the trade table, later proven to be bs. You are pointing at articles speculating what was happening. Robbo’s recent report outlines the facts after the dust has settled.

 

[Bombfire]

There also reports that Hawthorn put Burton on the trade table, later proven to be bs. You are pointing at articles speculating what was happening. Robbo’s recent report outlines the facts after the dust has settled.

If you're happy to run with Slobbo instead of your own football club when it was all happening, I think you are indeed finished with this thread.

 

[Vindicater]

There also reports that Hawthorn put Burton on the trade table, later proven to be bs. You are pointing at articles speculating what was happening. Robbo’s recent report outlines the facts after the dust has settled.

Can you point out where they were proved to be BS. I have heard this a number of times and obviously missed this piece of info.

 

[TallyHawk]

Can you point out where they were proved to be BS. I have heard this a number of times and obviously missed this piece of info.

Jason Cripps admitted so following the trade on trade radio this was after he said ‘100% hawthorn put him on table’ Graham Wright wasn’t happy with the tactic. I can’t find anything published.

 

[Vindicater]

Jason Cripps admitted so following the trade on trade radio this was after he said ‘100% hawthorn put him on table’ Graham Wright wasn’t happy with the tactic. I can’t find anything published.

I read that whole situation differently (I heard both those interviews at the time)

I got the impression Cripps was saying Port had kept an eye on Burton since he was drafted and had let Hawthorn know about there interest. (Kind of how like Hawthorn had with Wingard)

Then when it became apparent that Wingard was up for grabs, Wright offered up Burton to get Ports attention as he knew they were already interested.

 

[Lore]

Try to keep it civilised and on topic please. Thread-bans for any further trolling - perhaps points too depending on severity.

 

[threesixpio]

If your story had any legs, the only club who backtracked and reneged was Hawthorn. They knew Shiel would come at fair price but left him high and dry. But your story is just that, a story that makes Hawks feel a bit less short changed, after having to make do with Wingerz.

Dodoro is an embarrassment and you know it. GWS are laughing all the way to draft bank. Two firsts for Shiel: Oooooookay.

Hawks were never going to cough that up and thank *

 

[Gavin Excell]

As i understand it, Shiel was desperate to go to Hawthorn but the Hawks were less than enthusiastic.
They played him along so not to hurt his feelings, but it all got a bit weird and Hawks were left with no option but to advise him that they werent into him and he was best advised to pursue other options. Reluctantly Shiel chose Essendon.

Its the same with Lynch too. Hawthorn rejected his overtures and he went tail between his legs to Richmond

All true this.

 

[Bombfire]

Dodoro is an embarrassment and you know it. GWS are laughing all the way to draft bank. Two firsts for Shiel: Oooooookay.

Hawks were never going to cough that up and thank ****

Don't be like that.
Like every other self respecting Hawthorn supporter caught up in the Shiel knocked back your club saga, just head over to your own club's website.
It's all vetted and sanctioned by your club about how the Hawks missed out.
I'll make it easy for you, just click the link below and mull over the deal that got away.

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2018-10-10/trade-talk-hawks-change-of-plans

The salient snippets being;

9/10/2018: Dylan Shiel picks Essendon
And while the Bombers beat the Blues, the Hawks and the Saints in the race for his signature, they did so with the lowest contract offer of the four clubs.

10/10/2018: Hawthorn stunned into action
Hawthorn's failure to land Dylan Shiel could intensify the speculation over the future of Port Adelaide star Chad Wingard, who remains a possibility to move to Victoria.
Reports on Channel Seven on Tuesday night indicated Wingard was likely request a trade to the Hawks imminently, with the Western Bulldogs also keen on his signature.

17/10/2018: Hawthorn move to sign Wingerz -8 days after Shiel gave them the bad news

...after a meeting with four-time Hawthorn premiership coach Alastair Clarkson, and conversations with ex-teammate Jarman Impey, veteran Hawk Shaun Burgoyne and retired star Cyril Rioli, Wingard made his decision.