Dysfunctional Forward Line

axel2cotch2lids

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Thread starter #1
Its a mess in the front half lets be honest

King and Nahas are not up to scratch, Nahas fumbles and loses his feet too often and King is being found out for being a good trier but not avery good footballer and when is effort isnt there like tonight King becomes a liability.

Edwards was very good as small forward to night and should replace king. I have not been a supporter of Edwards at all but he showed that a small forward might be a role he can fill well.

Miller - i estimate tonight mill cost us 4 goals through fumbles and poor skills. If a CHF cannot kick the ball 40 meters then its time to pack it in. He had the stinker of all stinkers tonight

Jack needs to get on his bike and move - admittedly he is not helped by not having a third tall in there tonight which make you question why Post or derickx wasnt brought in to the squad just for the sake of structure- if vickery played Jack might have done better but still he was very poor

Those are our 4 pretty much permanent forwards all struggling at the moment in one way or another.

We really need a mid-sized forward ala LeCras and genuinely clever skilled, clean below there feet small forward. We have none of these.

Ahhhhhhh.... I feel better now I got that off my chest

Dont get me started on out kick outs in defense ...... they have not imporved one little bit in 3 years and needs to be fricken sorted ASAP!!!!
 

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cairo tiger

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#2
the miller jack combination is now clearly not working. scratch it.
we persist with a chip and carry game in the backline. thats fine. hit your targets, meanwhile all of the tall timber has gone back to try and out jump and harras jack. we need to get it in quicker. the crumbs should be there quicker. front and centre and to the sides. spread. we need to take more shots on 50 with blokes like delidio and martin. dont really know what the fwd line game play is but it aint working. edwards. get him up there. prepared to say that after bagging the kid for a while, great game tonight.
 

tora tora tora

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#3
1. bombing the ball in so much to the top of the square just made it too easy for essendon to defend. If we continue that game plan it won't matter who we play there defenders will spoil and our small forwards don't get a chance.
Miller (can't kick over a jam tin) vs Vickery (please find some form Ty)


2. The solution be one of the talls playing out across the half forward line open the fwd line up the and try hitting players on a lead (one thing that Sydney used to do brilliantly) or give the midfield a chance to kick running goals.

3. our small forwards. King? no goals and 3 tackles is that enough??
Nahas - more involved in the play than King but, as a very small player still he gets caught too much with the ball too much. (No confidence to kick from 25m wtf??)

4. Midfielders goal kicking was even worse. (and at critical times)
 

Runandhyde

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#4
Crameri's lead up play last night vs Miller and jacks exposed the gulf in class between the two teams. Not one of our forwards was prepared to work for it. Think our no 1 trade target should be a forward with a big tank, who can push up the ground and take a grab 60/70 metres out then feed it to Jack or ty. Miller used to be capable of being that roaming CHF who didnt kick many goals but got amongst the play. Now he is just a stay at home forward who doesnt kick many goal.
Not sure who is attainable, maybe Corneilius from Bris. Would have loved Mitch clark but not the assosiated price tag! Think Zac Clarke resigned for a few years last year also otherwise he would have been perfect!
 

TigerTank

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#5
The answer is a fit and confident Ty Vickery.
That would fix a multitude of problems. Back-up ruck: check, that three goals short we are each game: check, decent kick from 45m: check.
How you get Vickery from where is now back to where he was last year is the question.
 

kozi

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#6
I'll tell you all what NEEDS to happen.


1) Jack to line up no closer than 30 meters out and LEAD at the footy.

2) The grooming of a genuine FULL FORWARD out of Griff/Vickery/Derrickx/Elton.
(Happy to draft/free agency one but needs to be end of this year)

3) Miller
a) We draft/free agency a FF and one of Griff/Vickery/Derrickx/Elton takes his spot
at HF
b) We dont draft a FF and he sticks around a bit longer until 2 of those mentioned
above step up to cover both HF and FF

4) To find a Medium sized fwd ala Le Cras to take ONE of King/Nahas spot

5) ONE of King/Nahas to play defensive FWD / goal sneak

6) Continue rotation of Dusty/Cotch/Lids/Conca up fwd.


FF: Nahas, Griffiths, Vickery
HF: Martin, Riewoldt, (Le Cras type)

If we had this from the start of the year guaranteed we would be around the 6-2 mark at the moment, not 3-5. What staggers me is how much our midfield and defence has improved - to be matching it with top 4 sides in 2012 with our forward line having gone backwards from 2011 IMO is an incredible effort.
 

Toadvine

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#7
The answer is a fit and confident Ty Vickery.
That would fix a multitude of problems. Back-up ruck: check, that three goals short we are each game: check, decent kick from 45m: check.
How you get Vickery from where is now back to where he was last year is the question.
quoted for truth.
 

tropicaltiger

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#10
Agree with most, we have the potential cattle in the cupboard just not quite ready for one reason or another

Big Griff, Astbury, Vickery, Post, Conners and other wannabee's time to get fair dinkum and perform.
 

thecotch

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#11
Would rather have post in over miller after last night's performance. How a bloke his size struggles to kick 35mts and misses from 20mts out on the run in the last qtr is beyond me.

Bloody hell, we'd kill for a decent power forward right now. :mad:
 

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tigerdan

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#16
Well I posted this more or less in another thread but you guys have to realise that the forward line is being stymied in order to help the backline. That's what happens when you play loose man in defence as a strategy rather than a reaction to the opposition getting a run on (by the way, there is no 'S' in defence unless you are a yank).

I agree that an in-form Vickery would help a lot. We are crying out for someone to dominate CHF. The opposition can drop their spare man back to cut off Riewlodt but that would still leave Vickery (or whoever) one on one at CHF.

King could probably do with a run in the seconds. Nahas has skill and can panic the opposition defence, but is brushed off the ball too easy. Still, we have no other option for that small forward role unless we bring Maric back in. Edwards might be an option too. Worth a try, 3 goals from him was a good return.

Miller had a poor game but if we are going to banish players on the basis of one poor game we are going to get spanked when our top players have an inevitable bad one the week before.

Let's try not to be so reactionary and blinkered. Our midfielders are kicking more goals this year, and it's not by accident.
 

theflea

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#17
How about we put Daly back there.
The forward line was working well.
Now he is the midfield spread coach, and well, Essendon crucified us on that front.
ive pointed this out too. i think its mellor who is the fwds coach but it reflects the wishes of the senior coach. daly had us working well last year but the more you do it the more other clubs work stratagies to combat it. last year we bombed long but our fwds marked it most of the time. when they dont it just doesnt work. this is where the lead up fwd is critical, but we are bagging the fwds for not doing this but i think most of the time its the structure in place that says not to do this otherwise why do our mids(tuck) just bomb it long and high without looking. i think our stratagy must change and/or will depending on players that we have/get.
 

El Tigre

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#18
ive pointed this out too. i think its mellor who is the fwds coach but it reflects the wishes of the senior coach. daly had us working well last year but the more you do it the more other clubs work stratagies to combat it. last year we bombed long but our fwds marked it most of the time. when they dont it just doesnt work. this is where the lead up fwd is critical, but we are bagging the fwds for not doing this but i think most of the time its the structure in place that says not to do this otherwise why do our mids(tuck) just bomb it long and high without looking. i think our stratagy must change and/or will depending on players that we have/get.
Re you 2nd point about our i50 ball use, fully agree.
Look at the difference between the average Essendon i50 verse ours. When they did go in, mostly the kicks were to advantage, especially to guys on the lead. Even when they gave us time to get numbers back, they still created space for guys to lead. For me the main issues is that their guy making the kick i50 was often running, in the clear, and has time to execute the kick right.
Our i50 kicks mostly were not directed, and mostly coming from just getting boot on the ball.
I understand that our game style verses theirs is very different, but 1 thing we should focus on is giving the guy who is making the pass i50 more time to execute the kick.
 
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#19
We need T.Cloke. He leads, and marks, 2 key things which none of our forwards are doing at the moment. Vickery is a statue, and Riewoldt has lost the plot. Miller is on his last legs, and there isn't much hope in Griffiths/Post.
 

"The Roar Is Back"

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#20
From what I can gather we often play with a 5 man forward line and use Lids or Martin off the back of the square or behind the ball .
The 5 often being , included are my estimated odds of them taking a 1on1 contested mark and kicking a goal from 40 out .
Reiwoldt 3-1 , Edwards 20-1, King 25-1 , Nahas 100-1 , Miller 150-1
Now my odds some may question and may be off a tad , however opposition playing upon these players don't have to worry greatly that their opponent is going to leave to far outside 40 when the ball is being kicked in and have the benefit of generally sitting 10-15 metres off their opponent .
 

Livonski

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#21
34 scoring shots says to me that we are doing the right things to win the game (except kick straight) even though it appears the forward line may be "dysfunctional".

So it seems there may have been a trade off here when developing the game style. Do we have a functioning, traditional forward line, JR kicks 6 and we kick 12 goals but leak more at the other end?
Or do we shut down goals against (as per RPs post above) by having an extra back up the ground and rely more on the mids to score over the clogged fwd line (if they kick straight)?
 

"The Roar Is Back"

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#22
34 scoring shots says to me that we are doing the right things to win the game (except kick straight) even though it appears the forward line may be "dysfunctional".

So it seems there may have been a trade off here when developing the game style. Do we have a functioning, traditional forward line, JR kicks 6 and we kick 12 goals but leak more at the other end?
Or do we shut down goals against (as per RPs post above) by having an extra back up the ground and rely more on the mids to score over the clogged fwd line (if they kick straight)?
Good post Liv , I think we can also unclutter the forward line by playing players who have greater odds of marking in a 1 on 1 and 40 plus out , which would all of a sudden force their opponents to play closer and open up our forward line closer to goal , yet obviously crowd it further out .
Our midfielders have been able to waltz through a very open half forward line this season .
 
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