Autopsy Eagles defeat Swans by 34

Remove this Banner Ad

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
1,030
1,864
AFL Club
Sydney
Our injuries are no worse than most clubs

One is a 33 year old forward , most clubs dont bother with them but yeah he is a key player if hes ever healthy again
Reid would be delisted at most clubs
McCartin was playing like rubbish
Brand is what a 3 game hawks reject, not established 22
Sinclair everyone wanted dropped anyway
Naismith looked ok but is where you could be good money he would be , has he got to 30'games yet
Knoll wouldn't get a game at EB games

the fact you are right and we cant win with those outs is the issue, the team isnt very good,but its not true other teams dont cope with similar or even worse

the expectations of this current team should be bottom 4 side, we cant do more repair work until the off season, I reckon the sooner people expect patches of good footy at best, the odd surprise win when the team is expected to lose,the easier it is

I agree dont rush every kid in, but at the same time i think its pointless patching the team up with guys who show little when they play, i wont name names, but there 5 at least yesterday why bother
Spot on , there no good when fit (Take buddy away from this ) but vital when injured
Its about structure rather than any individuals.
No team would win if their 3 x 1st choice best tall forwards are out + 3 x ist choice rucks are out + 2 x tallest defenders are out.

Even if .. Reid, Naismith and Brand played every game, we wouldn't be bottom 4. Throw Buddy and McCartin in there, and we a good chance at finals. As it stands, we definitely bottom 4, and with the exception of a dysfunctional Adelaide, would be a good contender for the wooden spoon
 

Kapers

All Australian
Sep 25, 2019
612
1,058
AFL Club
Sydney
Our injuries are no worse than most clubs

One is a 33 year old forward , most clubs dont bother with them but yeah he is a key player if hes ever healthy again
Reid would be delisted at most clubs
McCartin was playing like rubbish
Brand is what a 3 game hawks reject, not established 22
Sinclair everyone wanted dropped anyway
Naismith looked ok but is where you could be good money he would be , has he got to 30'games yet
Knoll wouldn't get a game at EB games

the fact you are right and we cant win with those outs is the issue, the team isnt very good,but its not true other teams dont cope with similar or even worse

the expectations of this current team should be bottom 4 side, we cant do more repair work until the off season, I reckon the sooner people expect patches of good footy at best, the odd surprise win when the team is expected to lose,the easier it is

I agree dont rush every kid in, but at the same time i think its pointless patching the team up with guys who show little when they play, i wont name names, but there 5 at least yesterday why bother
That's not the point, we aren't talking about the quality of the players, we're talking about the role they serve. Reid will still be better at taking contested marks than Hayward or Grey or Ronke simply because of his height. Brand will be better vs certain opponents because of his height. Believe it or not, Sinclair would be better than Alir because of his height.

We may not have lost a large quality of player that we could bandage one of those roles, but to completely lose all key position players and have to rely on an 8 gamers to be a key forward?

I think it's a bit rich to say other teams could sustain these losses. If any team lost 7 men over 194 and one of the only remaining was a 8 gamer, most teams would be on strife. On that note, other teams probably have more quality in those 7 players, or more to lose, but once again, it's about the role and the fact that we can't just put in a good 180cm player and expect him to perform it adequately.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
17,000
19,329
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
Our injuries are no worse than most clubs

One is a 33 year old forward , most clubs dont bother with them but yeah he is a key player if hes ever healthy again
Reid would be delisted at most clubs
McCartin was playing like rubbish
Brand is what a 3 game hawks reject, not established 22
Sinclair everyone wanted dropped anyway
Naismith looked ok but is where you could be good money he would be , has he got to 30'games yet
Knoll wouldn't get a game at EB games

the fact you are right and we cant win with those outs is the issue, the team isnt very good,but its not true other teams dont cope with similar or even worse

the expectations of this current team should be bottom 4 side, we cant do more repair work until the off season, I reckon the sooner people expect patches of good footy at best, the odd surprise win when the team is expected to lose,the easier it is

I agree dont rush every kid in, but at the same time i think its pointless patching the team up with guys who show little when they play, i wont name names, but there 5 at least yesterday why bother
Even after a nights sleep I can't find anything within me to argue with this.
Not having enough fit talls is bad. really bad. It is what has brought the Dogs undone since they won their premiership.
Melican down again hurts us badly. Brand we have to pin our hopes on that he can replicate Ted Richards one day. Not holding my breath.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
109,571
93,853
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
That's not the point, we aren't talking about the quality of the players, we're talking about the role they serve. Reid will still be better at taking contested marks than Hayward or Grey or Ronke simply because of his height. Brand will be better vs certain opponents because of his height. Believe it or not, Sinclair would be better than Alir because of his height.

We may not have lost a large quality of player that we could bandage one of those roles, but to completely lose all key position players and have to rely on an 8 gamers to be a key forward?

I think it's a bit rich to say other teams could sustain these losses. If any team lost 7 men over 194 and one of the only remaining was a 8 gamer, most teams would be on strife. On that note, other teams probably have more quality in those 7 players, or more to lose, but once again, it's about the role and the fact that we can't just put in a good 180cm player and expect him to perform it adequately.

I literally scrolled the AFL injury list site to get our injuries we aren’t even close to the worst

Yes a lot are tall, but we still had talls yesterday yet the players who took marks were all short , our average height was still the usual I believe at about 187? Can’t check on my phone



Most of the guys missing either don’t perform or never play

I’m just saying if you expect this side to be reeling off wins then you will be disappointed even when the injured talls return because a lot for various reasons just make no difference imo
 

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
109,571
93,853
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
Its about structure rather than any individuals.
No team would win if their 3 x 1st choice best tall forwards are out + 3 x ist choice rucks are out + 2 x tallest defenders are out.

Even if .. Reid, Naismith and Brand played every game, we wouldn't be bottom 4. Throw Buddy and McCartin in there, and we a good chance at finals. As it stands, we definitely bottom 4, and with the exception of a dysfunctional Adelaide, would be a good contender for the wooden spoon

I’m sorry i disagree , Reid and brand would make no difference to current results , brand for melican is nil change to far

Reid has never made a difference to winning and losing his whole career

Naismith maybe you can make the case but the list is bottom 4 imo

Buddy if fit makes it better but he’s 33 so not holding my breath

It’s odd how when he is out mccartin is a top 3 key forward choice when half the time he is played back, Sinclair is suddenly a second choice ruck when all summer I hear he is I useless and should not play, Reid of course is absent which always makes him a star

Why’s it so hard to accept the team isn’t good yet? Not even having a go, just saying we won’t win much yet
 

brad cooper

Club Legend
Jul 5, 2014
2,719
4,534
AFL Club
Sydney
Good game, despite the margin it felt like the two late goals in the first we kicked decided the game. This year isn't worth much anyway, get a good first rounder this draft, you guys will be hard to beat with Franklin and Daniher as your two main targets next year.
Sorry mate but we are not used to such optimistic posts on this board. Just scroll thru any of the threads since yesterday and you'll see what I mean. Btw you've got a good player in Oscar Allen
 

S120

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 19, 2011
9,949
11,165
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Wallabies
I'm glad I took 18 hours to not post about the game as I was very frustrated yesterday afternoon by it. Very sick of our ruck depth being so porous, first of all. But anyway, I feel I'm in a more circumspect frame of mind.

It felt like things fell apart truly for the first time in a while yesterday. By that I mean, normally you can count on the side even when outmatched well and truly to keep in it and still be competitive. But yesterday they were outmatched in talent, personnel and effort. WCE really poured it on in the 2nd half with their physical pressure and we weren't able to go with it. Naitanui's dominance around the stoppages was just too much and finally WCE's midfield got moving forward and didn't stop. We weren't able to wrest momentum back after quarter time at any real point and play some slower footy like we have at times in the first month of the year. It felt really rushed often, when we had the ball, which I get to some degree - before the game I was hoping we'd play really quick as we had a small side in against a larger team but it ended up being too haphazard and mistakes flowed. A big and revitalised good team putting on great physical pressure made it really hard for us to get anything going.

Haven't done it for a while but I felt like going through each player and giving my take on how they did.

Mills: BOG for us imo - strong in the contest under constant pressure and composed with the ball in hand. Calls will continue coming for him to move to the middle but with no ruckmen of note in our side atm, I don't see it being of benefit. I'd keep him down back.

Rampe: did his best against Kennedy and did a good job with so much ball coming his way. Kennedy's inaccuracy helped.

Melican: thought he did an OK job for the most part. When he gets turned around things can really go awry (he has small strides, I feel like, makes him seem like he's slower than he is) but didn't think Darling had much of an impact upon the game. Hopefully he isn't out for too long again.

Lloyd: continuing having an improved year. He was playing deeper in defence this week it seemed and less pushing up the ground but probably had to be that way given our changes in defence.

Hayward: this is a tricky one. I think there's something to work with here in defence but he made some really awful one-on-one mistakes and poor disposal decisions. I understand him doing so because he's never been a defender so in a normal year, I'd be sending him to the NEAFL to work it out in defence and come back in when he's tightened things up there in a month or so. But with the current reserves situation, who knows how often he'll get to play. He just looks a bit lost mentally. He's trying to get involved and make the right decision, but he seems occupied with doing so and then that muddles things up. I'd try and stress to him to keep things simple and just focus on being good defensively. The mark he gave up to Oscar Allen in the first quarter was not AFL standard as a defender. But I think he can develop if given time. I'd probably stick with him for now at AFL level for a few weeks and see what happens.

O'Riordan: solid yesterday but he hasn't developed like I thought he was going to. I thought he'd become more of an interceptor than he has as well as using his athleticism to rebound a bit more. He's getting games at the moment because theré's not anyone else banging the door down like Stoddart or Ling.

Cunningham: kept Liam Ryan quiet which is a positive - but no influence with the ball. I'm ok for him to stay a lock down small defender. This is the thing with Cunningham - I think he gets so focused on stopping his opponent that he almost loses sight of the fact that he himself can be dangerous with the ball. If that's the way it is, fine, let him play small defender to be a pure stopper until someone else shows they can do both.

Aliir: if we had a full allotment of key position players, he'd be out of the side imo. His play in the first month at CHB was ordinary; he looked heavy and slow. I'm ok with him staying in the ruck to try and coax some more production out of him for now, because we have absolutely nobody else. But he's in a bad patch of form right now. His disposal, while it's never been at a really level, would often be good enough to hit targets. But it's looking very loopy and not crisp at all right now.

Kennedy: his first 2.5 quarter were some of the worst footy I've seen him play in his career. He was getting the ball but getting caught with it, missing targets and just looking slow/tired. He improved in the last 1.5 quarters and was still one of our best on a bad day for the side, but I'd try to forget this game if I was him and move on quickly. As with all our midfielders, not having a competitive ruckman is brutal. Kennedy can still have a bad game and be in our best handful of players which is not ideal.

Parker: Tried to inspire with some crashing of bodies but he can't do it all against a good midfield with a ruckman who was doing as he pleased. I'm not against letting him play more across HF to help us in the air a bit more.

Florent: his disposal, as everyone noticed, was awful in the first half but he provides us with something many others can't - quick feet around stoppages and not just blind bombing immediately. He might cut the footy up after he leaves the stoppage, but he buys time for players up the field to get open and makes things happen. I'm a glass-half full guy with Florent.

Rowbottom: he's developing nicely. Starting to add some Florent-like footwork around stoppages to baulk around tacklers and buy himself more time to find free teammates. Loving watching his development

Hewett: not sure what's going on with Hewett as he seems to play different roles every week. I guess he's trusted by Longmire to be a Mr Fix-It, but must be difficult going from stoppage player, to tagger, to defensive HF, to wing from week to week. Having Florent and Rowbottom taking up stoppage minutes leaves less for Hewett so it's a tricky situation. You could make the argument to have Hewett take more stoppage time than Parker and have Parker play forward to provide more aerial presence - that could be something to look at.

McInerney: never stops trying and worked himself into the ground yesterday. Pulled off so many gut-busting runs and often they came to naught, but I love that he keeps backing himself. I'd encourage him to keep doing it and things will happen. He and Rowbottom are gonna be good players in our midfield and on a wing.

Clarke: you can bag him for the most obvious stuff but I can't help but like him. Kept Gaff quiet and he tackles hard, runs all day and is trying to keep things within his capability when he gets the ball. Considering where many of our players are at the moment, I'm keeping him in the 22 until someone pushes him out. It's on reserves guys to work as hard as him - if they can, I'll happily leave him out because the truth is that he's very limited. But for now, I'll take his work ethic.

Blakey: best game for the year which was pleasing. Still wasn't a brilliant game, but certainly better than what he has done so far this year. More active in pushing up the ground at the ball-carrier and looked to be working harder without the ball.

Dawson: seemed to play a different position every quarter. I'd rather settle him in somewhere and let him find his feet again. Hasn't been a great start to the year but I'd be keeping him on a HB flank and let him distribute. Particularly given how we'll be losing stoppages likely for the next few weeks, he'll grow stale up forward.

Gray & Ronke: combined these two because they had pretty much the exact same game yesterday. Didn't do much with the ball and didn't tackle much. I'm disappointed in how little we've got from Gray so far but I'm not sure we have much to replace him with other than Wicks maybe? It's hard when our two main forwards are Papley and Heeney - so the actual crumbers have use two other smaller forwards as their reference points.

Heeney: everything he does oozes with class, the kind of class that is so clearly superior to 99% of other footballers. We're just struggling to utilise him consistently in a way which helps display it. I like him playing a CHF kind of role on bigger grounds, it lets him roam up to the wing and then push back inside 50 to take advantage of being one on one with his opponent. Again, given how badly we got smacked in the middle, it wasn't gonna do much for him up forward. I guess there's an argument to push him into the middle at some stage, but I don't rate him that much as a midfielder so I'm not sure it'd have helped much. But to try something, maybe so.

Papley: does everything he can, but he can only do so much. Every time he gets the ball he looks like he's going to do something positive and constructive. But if he gets pushed deep into the forward as our most dangerous forward, he can easily be ganged up on. Must be frustrating for him.

McLean: gotta keep him in the side. He didn't have a great day yesterday but still kicked a couple (his contested mark for his first was really good) and at least provides a target and works hard. More than happy to stick with him and watch him develop.

There's so much chopping and changing in terms of positional and personnel changes at the moment. Can't be helping with the players much but given our injury list exclusively has talls in it, not sure what else we can do. Looking more clearly like it's gonna be a rough year. I just really hope we can actually bring some quality in at the end of the year - we need some genuine best 22 players to fortify the list with rather than more around the fringes.

I think we're very competitive with close to our normal allotment of players but the number of talls out right now is too much to cope with. I hope our young players in the 22 don't drop their heads and keep trying, that our senior guys show the right kind of leadership to guide them through and that our recent batch of draftees are doing everything they can to push out the poor-performing players right now.
 

kickthething

Premiership Player
Jul 5, 2010
3,857
4,729
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
you are kidding, right?
Theres a lot of requests / demands that we play debutants.. The Swans have debuted maybe more players than any other club the last couple of seasons. Horse has said in the past that 'they need to be ready,, that to throw them in when not ready can damage their development'.
With the injuries at the moment to All our talls, which as Joycerema just said 'is our backbone, and has destroyed our structure',, to debut players now could be like feeding them to the lions.
Haywood, Blakey, McCartin (pre-injury) are struggling because the oppos best defenders are taking them.. No Buddy or Reid filters further down. Same goes for Allirr, COR and the entire defence. The no ruck puts extra pressure on McInerney, Florent and Rowbum - who are doing ok, but would be much better off if the ruck contest was even. Basically all the inexperienced players are suffering at the loss of our experienced Talls.
Don't forget that McLean and McInerney (who have played less than 10 games) are getting a lot of game time / development
In saying all this.. I can see a Foot, Ling, Wicks, Stoddart, Amartey or Maibaum get a game real soon.. and if we have Buddy/Reid and McCartin, Sinkers, Brand all playing later in the season, then there's opportunities for Gould, Stephens, Warner etc

ps.. No team in the comp would have won their last game with the equivalent injuries that we have

I don't think its necessarily about playing debutants, and its definitely not about win-loss... it's about seeing what we have on the list...players like Bell (Drafted in 17), Amartey (17), Wicks (18) Maibaum (16) Stoddart (17) Ling (17) amongst others can come into that and by your comments suggesting they will get a game soon, I suspect you are saying the same thing....we know some of those have been injury affected however leaving it to later in the year (in a sense it is later in the year now anyhow with 13 games left?) when the games become one-way traffic as you are playing for even less than you are playing for now so to me it is more detrimental to a player trying to impress, Its a much better environment to give them an opportunity when there is a semblance of something to play for, that's when you will get a better gauge on a player. I think we should be rotating these players through for the rest of the year so they can get a chance for a couple of weeks, then come back again toward the end with that under their belt and see how they perform again.

Of course, we would not normally go down a path like this however this season is one where we have no meaningful second tier for players to show their ware and push for selection. We do have an opportunity to do it and gain something from the season. Sure, its not a popular opinion, I believe we should be making the most of what is in front of us and taking this opportunity to control things a bit rather than wait and see with some of these players.


PLAYERINJURYESTIMATED RETURN
Kaiden Brand Ankle 2 weeks
Lance Franklin Hamstring TBC
Michael Knoll Knee 3-5 weeks
Tom McCartin Concussion Test
Sam Naismith Knee Season
Sam Reid Calf 2 week

Knoll is the only injured player we need a form line on, our other injuries are to established players. Our list is below par at the moment and we need to be looking ahead. 2020 brings a unique opportunity for us to play with that in mind. We can keep playing the same old same old then let players go who we never really gave a chance to and swim in the sea of mediocrity for the next 10 years (Hello Norf). This is not particularly about playing 1st-year players, we have 2/3/4 year players who seem to be searching for a real purpose for being on the list.

We have already had two seasons looking at the same players go around week in week out who bring the same week in week out. There appear to be no real repercussions for poor performance for a number of our squad which surely impacts the whole mentality of the list and teaches us nothing about what we have. There are those on our list we have little real knowledge about and a season where there is no second tier of footy for them to grow. We need to be rotating some of these through the senior list because of the current situation. Forget about win-loss, it's about looking into the list and seeing what we actually have.

If some of these players are not ready by now (and it looks like this year we will only know by playing them) well ...you know the rest.

I am of the opinion we don't appear to have a clear direction right now, we seem to surviving week to week and simply accepting our lot. We shouldn't.

To repeat myself, this year is definitely not about win-loss, its about 2021 and beyond
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TheMase

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 20, 2001
19,075
15,964
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
I get that view, I just can't agree sorry, I'd rather get games into players that will be here and will contribute long term. Lets be real is a Clarke type really one we need long term? Grey should be playing as an inside mid (I wouldn't be against him as an inside mid)
A Clarke “type”? Absolutely we need his “type”. It would be nice if we had his “type” with a bit more class but isn’t to be just yet. We need a gut runner like him, yes.
 

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
1,030
1,864
AFL Club
Sydney
I’m sorry i disagree , Reid and brand would make no difference to current results , brand for melican is nil change to far

Reid has never made a difference to winning and losing his whole career

Naismith maybe you can make the case but the list is bottom 4 imo

Buddy if fit makes it better but he’s 33 so not holding my breath

It’s odd how when he is out mccartin is a top 3 key forward choice when half the time he is played back, Sinclair is suddenly a second choice ruck when all summer I hear he is I useless and should not play, Reid of course is absent which always makes him a star

Why’s it so hard to accept the team isn’t good yet? Not even having a go, just saying we won’t win much yet
Theres a reason why McCartin, Haywood, Ronke, Grey, Taylor, Mcinerney, etc and even Rampe are looking pretty average at the moment (apart from them being average players?), and that's our structure / our KPP's are all injured!

I know you're not a fan of Reid.. but if Reid plays, he takes the best defender and offers a contest in the forward 50 which makes McCartin and haywood's job heaps easier and offers crumbs for the small forwards

Sinclare is a better ruck than Allirr or McLean and will offer the midfield a lot more, allowing it to develop an attacking and pressure game rather than just defensive.

Brand or Melican helps free up Rampe and Allirr - Rampe can do his thing and Allirr can play as the third tall or intercepting defender (he cant do that in the ruck)

Its not hard to accept the team isn't good yet, but the team is hugely suffering for the lack of KPP's. Can you not see that?
 

wilsonmatic

All Australian
Sep 25, 2011
799
633
AFL Club
Sydney
Theres a reason why McCartin, Haywood, Ronke, Grey, Taylor, Mcinerney, etc and even Rampe are looking pretty average at the moment (apart from them being average players?), and that's our structure / our KPP's are all injured!

I know you're not a fan of Reid.. but if Reid plays, he takes the best defender and offers a contest in the forward 50 which makes McCartin and haywood's job heaps easier and offers crumbs for the small forwards

Sinclare is a better ruck than Allirr or McLean and will offer the midfield a lot more, allowing it to develop an attacking and pressure game rather than just defensive.

Brand or Melican helps free up Rampe and Allirr - Rampe can do his thing and Allirr can play as the third tall or intercepting defender (he cant do that in the ruck)

Its not hard to accept the team isn't good yet, but the team is hugely suffering for the lack of KPP's. Can you not see that?
Correct. Taigh Kennally was on radio last week and he said Sam Reid is one of our key players, and he would know.
 

SeanM

Team Captain
Oct 17, 2016
334
678
AFL Club
Sydney
I don't think its necessarily about playing debutants, and its definitely not about win-loss... it's about seeing what we have on the list...players like Bell (Drafted in 17), Amartey (17), Wicks (18) Maibaum (16) Stoddart (17) Ling (17) amongst others can come into that and by your comments suggesting they will get a game soon, I suspect you are saying the same thing....we know some of those have been injury affected however leaving it to later in the year (in a sense it is later in the year now anyhow with 13 games left?) when the games become one-way traffic as you are playing for even less than you are playing for now so to me it is more detrimental to a player trying to impress, Its a much better environment to give them an opportunity when there is a semblance of something to play for, that's when you will get a better gauge on a player. I think we should be rotating these players through for the rest of the year so they can get a chance for a couple of weeks, then come back again toward the end with that under their belt and see how they perform again.
I think that is a fair point.

I think we are gradually moving in that direction. Four games into restart, it has been more about the rotating senior fringe players (eg Gray, CoR, Melican and Clarke in. Fox and Taylor out). They are same old players. But I think we do need to give them a chance this season which means a few games at a minimum.

I would like to see the 2nd/3rd/4th year players get a debut. We have been developing them for a few years and a lot are out of contract with the threat of reduced list sizes. So this season is now or never. So hopefully a few of them get a chance and maybe surprise us.


Though I prefer to do it gradually. I don't think there would be any benefit in playing all three of Warner, Stephens and Gould against West Coast or Richmond. It is too much fresh youth in a side already under pressure. And I agree I would rather see the 2nd/3rd/4th year players get their chance first. Because they have had a full uninterrupted season of training and NEAFL.

Though whilst we still have a mathematical chance of making finals. I don't think we will go mass youth selections. For the senior players there is always that hope that we can turn up and beat any other team on our day. And there is a faint hope that we will go on a winning streak at some stage and squeeze into the finals. So I think it will be 1-2 young players on the bench.
 

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
1,030
1,864
AFL Club
Sydney
I don't think its necessarily about playing debutants, and its definitely not about win-loss... it's about seeing what we have on the list...players like Bell (Drafted in 17), Amartey (17), Wicks (18) Maibaum (16) Stoddart (17) Ling (17) amongst others can come into that and by your comments suggesting they will get a game soon, I suspect you are saying the same thing....we know some of those have been injury affected however leaving it to later in the year (in a sense it is later in the year now anyhow with 13 games left?) when the games become one-way traffic as you are playing for even less than you are playing for now so to me it is more detrimental to a player trying to impress, Its a much better environment to give them an opportunity when there is a semblance of something to play for, that's when you will get a better gauge on a player. I think we should be rotating these players through for the rest of the year so they can get a chance for a couple of weeks, then come back again toward the end with that under their belt and see how they perform again.

Of course, we would not normally go down a path like this however this season is one where we have no meaningful second tier for players to show their ware and push for selection. We do have an opportunity to do it and gain something from the season. Sure, its not a popular opinion, I believe we should be making the most of what is in front of us and taking this opportunity to control things a bit rather than wait and see with some of these players.


PLAYERINJURYESTIMATED RETURN
Kaiden BrandAnkle2 weeks
Lance FranklinHamstringTBC
Michael KnollKnee3-5 weeks
Tom McCartinConcussionTest
Sam NaismithKneeSeason
Sam ReidCalf2 week

Knoll is the only injured player we need a form line on, our other injuries are to established players. Our list is below par at the moment and we need to be looking ahead. 2020 brings a unique opportunity for us to play with that in mind. We can keep playing the same old same old then let players go who we never really gave a chance to and swim in the sea of mediocrity for the next 10 years (Hello Norf). This is not particularly about playing 1st-year players, we have 2/3/4 year players who seem to be searching for a real purpose for being on the list.

We have already had two seasons looking at the same players go around week in week out who bring the same week in week out. There appear to be no real repercussions for poor performance for a number of our squad which surely impacts the whole mentality of the list and teaches us nothing about what we have. There are those on our list we have little real knowledge about and a season where there is no second tier of footy for them to grow. We need to be rotating some of these through the senior list because of the current situation. Forget about win-loss, it's about looking into the list and seeing what we actually have.

If some of these players are not ready by now (and it looks like this year we will only know by playing them) well ...you know the rest.

I am of the opinion we don't appear to have a clear direction right now, we seem to surviving week to week and simply accepting our lot. We shouldn't.

To repeat myself, this year is definitely not about win-loss, its about 2021 and beyond
Yep agree.. I guess the bit that makes it hard (apart from no 2nd tier comp) is that first gamers (2nd, 3rd year players) will always struggle. They get an opportunity if the team is at least competitive. With all the KPP's out injured, the Swans aren't competitive and therefore these young players that we need to see are gonna find it even harder. Hopefully some of our KPP's will be back soon and then the Wicks, Maibauns etc will get a game. If they don't, they're surely earmarked to be delisted. Its likely these players will get a game regardless of the injury list for all the reasons you state.
Absolutely this season is about 2021 and beyond
 

bungee

Trump dump
Aug 16, 2006
6,571
7,579
South East England.
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
I follow no other, only Swans
I’m sorry i disagree , Reid and brand would make no difference to current results , brand for melican is nil change to far

Reid has never made a difference to winning and losing his whole career

Naismith maybe you can make the case but the list is bottom 4 imo

Buddy if fit makes it better but he’s 33 so not holding my breath

It’s odd how when he is out mccartin is a top 3 key forward choice when half the time he is played back, Sinclair is suddenly a second choice ruck when all summer I hear he is I useless and should not play, Reid of course is absent which always makes him a star

Why’s it so hard to accept the team isn’t good yet? Not even having a go, just saying we won’t win much yet
What rant are you on now King ? Of course injuries to so many of our talls made a difference. It altered our entire structure. We literally have no tall forwards, no rucks and no tall defenders (of any merit). Horse shuffled the pieces around but there's simply no substitute for height. Without height we lose marking power, rucking power, spoiling power and physical presence. We're forced to edge forward in tiny handballs and tiny kicks for fear of being outmarked.

We were whipped by WC 92 marks to 67 and completely smashed in the hitouts. Our defenders were out-muscled and out-reached. We lacked the physical pressure that big bodies bring to a contest. The inclusion of Brand, Franklin, Reid, Sinclair and Naismith would have changed our entire dynamic.
 

TheMase

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 20, 2001
19,075
15,964
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
Some of the player rotations each weeks are probably due to the lack of true competitive reserves. Probably rotating to keep considered “senior” players with some AFL gametime to keep them up to speed.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
109,571
93,853
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
What rant are you on now King ? Of course injuries to so many of our talls made a difference. It altered our entire structure. We literally have no tall forwards, no rucks and no tall defenders (of any merit). Horse shuffled the pieces around but there's simply no substitute for height. Without height we lose marking power, rucking power, spoiling power and physical presence. We're forced to edge forward in tiny handballs and tiny kicks for fear of being outmarked.

We were whipped by WC 92 marks to 67 and completely smashed in the hitouts. Our defenders were out-muscled and out-reached. We lacked the physical pressure that big bodies bring to a contest. The inclusion of Brand, Franklin, Reid, Sinclair and Naismith would have changed our entire dynamic.
Rant? nick off, , people losing their sh*t over a loss , want the coach out the door, im just pointing out we arent that good, for who we are we are competitive

we aren't literally missing all of anything. What tall forward is missing? Franklin. (Reid is barely afl standard, mccartin wasnt playing key forward) and we still have every other tall forward available, Horse doesnt use them as key forwards though eg blakey (which is fine)

Rucks, we have mcclean there , he didnt even play in the ruck, Sinclair I defended all summer am told he is a dud, like i said fine naismith makes some difference, but nic nat would sh*t on him around the groun

brand would be in for melican I bet, so whats that a deck chair shuffle
naismith i agree helps
franklin yeah fine, but given where he is at I wouldnt hold my breath
Reid never does anything when he is asked to be the key target
sinclair would have been shat on as much as mclean

the result bar a fit buddy which we havent seen since 2018 would be no different, in fact credit to the team and the coach they competed as long as they did, the eagles are way better.

if you and others want to bury the head in the sand and pretend this side is capable of being great go ahead, you will be dissapointed though, id rather watch the promising players improve and look at off season moves, enjoy the odd win etc
 

bungee

Trump dump
Aug 16, 2006
6,571
7,579
South East England.
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
I follow no other, only Swans
How Aliir is playing in the senior team is beyond me. Have we sunk so low ? Zero skills, zero smarts and smaller balls than a Eunuch. He was too terrified to go anywhere near NicNat.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
109,571
93,853
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
Theres a reason why McCartin, Haywood, Ronke, Grey, Taylor, Mcinerney, etc and even Rampe are looking pretty average at the moment (apart from them being average players?), and that's our structure / our KPP's are all injured!

I know you're not a fan of Reid.. but if Reid plays, he takes the best defender and offers a contest in the forward 50 which makes McCartin and haywood's job heaps easier and offers crumbs for the small forwards

Sinclare is a better ruck than Allirr or McLean and will offer the midfield a lot more, allowing it to develop an attacking and pressure game rather than just defensive.

Brand or Melican helps free up Rampe and Allirr - Rampe can do his thing and Allirr can play as the third tall or intercepting defender (he cant do that in the ruck)

Its not hard to accept the team isn't good yet, but the team is hugely suffering for the lack of KPP's. Can you not see that?
I dont see an injury list any worse than most in the comp because i think buddy is cooked, its a cop out

we had height yesterday, they just did fu** all

same as the week before that, even before naismith got injured and even in the wins when the guys mentioned played

Reid was the key forward target most of last year and games still went like yesterday, if he wasnt wasting a list spot and cap space again maybe we would be better already

Aliir hasnt played a good game in 2020 even when the full defensive compliment is there
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
18,515
21,195
AFL Club
Sydney
This rebuild will last an awfully long time Unless we:

- uncover another A grade mid or two from recent drafts. Rowbottom is coming good. Florent is not A grade and won’t be unless his defensive game improves. If McInerney continues to improve, there is something there but it is not enough to cover for JPK and Mitchell.

- uncover two more key defenders organically. Not happening! We simply don’t have the cattle.

Then we can TOP up with another elite KPF and perhaps another mid.

I am still trying to get over the fact that we let Nanks go. And Mitchell. I am also confused by the trading of list cloggers such as Taylor, Thurlow, arguably Clarke and the list goes on. I am being patient with Gray. The coachesare clearly struggling to develop mature players. Other teams seem to be better at this. All in all I support recent comments that our recruitment has been poor of late and we will pay for years.

That said, throw Reid and Franklin back into the team and watch Hayward play his original role well. And watch Heeney wreak havoc. Ditto for ruck and KPD. The team lacks structure because it’s entire backbone is missing FFS. We are too hard on the players that are playing band aid roles.
I don't wanna pump him up too much as he's only a kid and could still end up a dud, but I feel like we could build our midfield around Rowbottom. There are a lot of problems in our team at the minute - players lacking confidence, players lacking effort, players lacking hardness, players lacking awareness, players lacking footy smarts. It bodes really well for him that there are no such doubts about his game, despite being the youngest in the team while many around him who are more experienced struggle.

Plus little signs like last year how his NEAFL performances went to another level when he started captaining the side (!!), all point to a player who doesn't look too daunted by a challenge. That's the ideal type you want leading a midfield.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
109,571
93,853
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
I don't wanna pump him up too much as he's only a kid and could still end up a dud, but I feel like we could build our midfield around Rowbottom. There are a lot of problems in our team at the minute - players lacking confidence, players lacking effort, players lacking hardness, players lacking awareness, players lacking footy smarts. It bodes really well for him that there are no such doubts about his game, despite being the youngest in the team while many around him who are more experienced struggle.

Plus little signs like last year how his NEAFL performances went to another level when he started captaining the side (!!), all point to a player who doesn't look too daunted by a challenge. That's the ideal type you want leading a midfield.

nah I think its there too

team looked a rabble under pressure yesterday including even the great skipper, but Rowbottom was one who held composure

makes good decisioms, doesnt shirk the issue
 

Top Bottom