Autopsy Eagles defeat Swans by 34

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caesar88

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nah I think its there too

team looked a rabble under pressure yesterday including even the great skipper, but Rowbottom was one who held composure

makes good decisioms, doesnt shirk the issue
Yeah I mean stranger things have happened than a young player looking great then completely losing it (Ronke), but having watched Rowbottom from U17s right through to his NEAFL now in the senior side, he's just shown it consistently. Might just be one of those types where it's just in his DNA.
 

wills2g

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just watched the replay

man those two late goals in 1q really killed the momentum

aliir gets a bit of the ball so someone really should spend a week with him on his kicking. teach him how to do a bullet pass, every one of his kicks hangs in the air for opponents to spoil

hayward SURELY gets a spell.. surely.. hes not a defender

ramps looks off this season too :(

can the swans hire contractors like 80-90kg dudes that are just there to get tackled? surely someone provides this easy service
 

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Yeah I mean stranger things have happened than a young player looking great then completely losing it (Ronke), but having watched Rowbottom from U17s right through to his NEAFL now in the senior side, he's just shown it consistently. Might just be one of those types where it's just in his DNA.

yeah but Ronke (all due respect to him) had a lot of luck on a forward line unchecked and had a night out

rowbottom isn't even really racking up or going close to dominating its just little moments where you see signs theres a player there, a real footballer
 

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bungee

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Rant? nick off, , people losing their sh*t over a loss , want the coach out the door, im just pointing out we arent that good, for who we are we are competitive

we aren't literally missing all of anything. What tall forward is missing? Franklin. (Reid is barely afl standard, mccartin wasnt playing key forward) and we still have every other tall forward available, Horse doesnt use them as key forwards though eg blakey (which is fine)

Rucks, we have mcclean there , he didnt even play in the ruck, Sinclair I defended all summer am told he is a dud, like i said fine naismith makes some difference, but nic nat would sh*t on him around the groun

brand would be in for melican I bet, so whats that a deck chair shuffle
naismith i agree helps
franklin yeah fine, but given where he is at I wouldnt hold my breath
Reid never does anything when he is asked to be the key target
sinclair would have been shat on as much as mclean

the result bar a fit buddy which we havent seen since 2018 would be no different, in fact credit to the team and the coach they competed as long as they did, the eagles are way better.

if you and others want to bury the head in the sand and pretend this side is capable of being great go ahead, you will be dissapointed though, id rather watch the promising players improve and look at off season moves, enjoy the odd win etc
I'm not even throwing out the bathwater. There's a genuine and rather obvious reason why we're struggling. Can you name a single experienced tall we had playing this weekend. I'm not talking about an inexperienced McLean or Melican, who still struggles to learn the role of a key defender. And not Aliir, who may have some height but has no idea how to use it. Aliir would serve us best by staying home, enjoying a nice sleep-in. Our cupboard is empty.

The big five who are out can at least play their roles. Sinclair would have brought a physical contest to NicNat. Brand is a proven defender. Buddy is still Buddy, when he plays, and Reid, whom you so love to disparage, still averages 5 marks a game, takes the best or 2nd best defender, throws his body into contests, gives us an option down back and an outlet mark when needed. He can crash a pack for our smalls to feast on and he kicks the odd bag himself, He's also a decent ruck, as good as Sinkers and a damn sight better than Aliir.

Any of these 5 would be very handy right now. All 5 would help get us back into finals contention.
 

bungee

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just watched the replay

man those two late goals in 1q really killed the momentum

aliir gets a bit of the ball so someone really should spend a week with him on his kicking. teach him how to do a bullet pass, every one of his kicks hangs in the air for opponents to spoil

hayward SURELY gets a spell.. surely.. hes not a defender

ramps looks off this season too :(

can the swans hire contractors like 80-90kg dudes that are just there to get tackled? surely someone provides this easy service
...and marking. Aliir needs to learn to mark. Rampe is holding up our defence pretty much on his own. He has to play tall every week when he's giving away so much height
 

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I'm not even throwing out the bathwater. There's a genuine and rather obvious reason why we're struggling. Can you name a single experienced tall we had playing this weekend. I'm not talking about an inexperienced McLean or Melican, who still struggles to learn the role of a key defender. And not Aliir, who may have some height but has no idea how to use it. Aliir would serve us best by staying home, enjoying a nice sleep-in. Our cupboard is empty.

The big five who are out can at least play their roles. Sinclair would have brought a physical contest to NicNat. Brand is a proven defender. Buddy is still Buddy, when he plays, and Reid, whom you so love to disparage, still averages 5 marks a game, takes the best or 2nd best defender, throws his body into contests, gives us an option down back and an outlet mark when needed. He can crash a pack for our smalls to feast on and he kicks the odd bag himself, He's also a decent ruck, as good as Sinkers and a damn sight better than Aliir.

Any of these 5 would be very handy right now. All 5 would help get us back into finals contention.
Brand isn’t a proven defender come on

And you want a tall out in Aliir but I thought it was all about structure despite the players skill set
 

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Brand isn’t a proven defender come on

And you want a tall out in Aliir but I thought it was all about structure despite the players skill set
He showed enough to be a big improvement on many of our motley crew.

Aliir may be tall but he doesn't play like a tall. He struggles with marks and he's as soft as bum-fluff. He adds nothing to our structure
 

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I'm not even throwing out the bathwater. There's a genuine and rather obvious reason why we're struggling. Can you name a single experienced tall we had playing this weekend. I'm not talking about an inexperienced McLean or Melican, who still struggles to learn the role of a key defender. And not Aliir, who may have some height but has no idea how to use it. Aliir would serve us best by staying home, enjoying a nice sleep-in. Our cupboard is empty.

The big five who are out can at least play their roles. Sinclair would have brought a physical contest to NicNat. Brand is a proven defender. Buddy is still Buddy, when he plays, and Reid, whom you so love to disparage, still averages 5 marks a game, takes the best or 2nd best defender, throws his body into contests, gives us an option down back and an outlet mark when needed. He can crash a pack for our smalls to feast on and he kicks the odd bag himself, He's also a decent ruck, as good as Sinkers and a damn sight better than Aliir.

Any of these 5 would be very handy right now. All 5 would help get us back into finals contention.
an experienced tall? but dont name aliir, but take your word Brand is a proven defender? so basically the inexperienced guys who played aren't good but the ones who didn't play naismith and brand are proven?

Reid fine agree to disagree , but i doubt he makes a difference, I mean short arse Papley averages 5 marks a game this year, so why should Reids 5 excite me

but yes if you give me a fit buddy fine, he makes a difference

the reality is we have 3 players over 190cm with 100 games or more , we arent pushing finals even with everyone in
 

The King!

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Brand isn’t a proven defender come on

And you want a tall out in Aliir but I thought it was all about structure despite the players skill set
if Brand was in and Melican out he would be telling us Melican is the better option
if sinclair played ahead and mclean didnt it would be Sinclair isnt up to it but remember what mclean showed

aliir will probably get injured then suddenly be a world beater
 

mikey_san

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I don't think its necessarily about playing debutants, and its definitely not about win-loss... it's about seeing what we have on the list...players like Bell (Drafted in 17), Amartey (17), Wicks (18) Maibaum (16) Stoddart (17) Ling (17) amongst others can come into that and by your comments suggesting they will get a game soon, I suspect you are saying the same thing....we know some of those have been injury affected however leaving it to later in the year (in a sense it is later in the year now anyhow with 13 games left?) when the games become one-way traffic as you are playing for even less than you are playing for now so to me it is more detrimental to a player trying to impress, Its a much better environment to give them an opportunity when there is a semblance of something to play for, that's when you will get a better gauge on a player. I think we should be rotating these players through for the rest of the year so they can get a chance for a couple of weeks, then come back again toward the end with that under their belt and see how they perform again.

Of course, we would not normally go down a path like this however this season is one where we have no meaningful second tier for players to show their ware and push for selection. We do have an opportunity to do it and gain something from the season. Sure, its not a popular opinion, I believe we should be making the most of what is in front of us and taking this opportunity to control things a bit rather than wait and see with some of these players.


PLAYERINJURYESTIMATED RETURN
Kaiden BrandAnkle2 weeks
Lance FranklinHamstringTBC
Michael KnollKnee3-5 weeks
Tom McCartinConcussionTest
Sam NaismithKneeSeason
Sam ReidCalf2 week

Knoll is the only injured player we need a form line on, our other injuries are to established players. Our list is below par at the moment and we need to be looking ahead. 2020 brings a unique opportunity for us to play with that in mind. We can keep playing the same old same old then let players go who we never really gave a chance to and swim in the sea of mediocrity for the next 10 years (Hello Norf). This is not particularly about playing 1st-year players, we have 2/3/4 year players who seem to be searching for a real purpose for being on the list.

We have already had two seasons looking at the same players go around week in week out who bring the same week in week out. There appear to be no real repercussions for poor performance for a number of our squad which surely impacts the whole mentality of the list and teaches us nothing about what we have. There are those on our list we have little real knowledge about and a season where there is no second tier of footy for them to grow. We need to be rotating some of these through the senior list because of the current situation. Forget about win-loss, it's about looking into the list and seeing what we actually have.

If some of these players are not ready by now (and it looks like this year we will only know by playing them) well ...you know the rest.

I am of the opinion we don't appear to have a clear direction right now, we seem to surviving week to week and simply accepting our lot. We shouldn't.

To repeat myself, this year is definitely not about win-loss, its about 2021 and beyond
Poor Grassy - must wish he'd gone to the Dons.
Couldn't get a look in when he was fit (would have played at least a couple of games at Dons without a doubt).
Then two or three times now when we would have played him through no choice - he's injured.
I hope he's studying or doing something to get prepared for post sports career. He'll be 28 by next season.
 

SGBeach

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if Brand was in and Melican out he would be telling us Melican is the better option
if sinclair played ahead and mclean didnt it would be Sinclair isnt up to it but remember what mclean showed

aliir will probably get injured then suddenly be a world beater
Come on King?!!? Brand and Melican are not world beaters, but if one of them played (Melican got injured) - Rampe would be better, Allirr would be better, The Swans would be better
If Sinkers played, that would give us McLean as a tall up forward and if Reid played, we'd have two talls up forward - reid means McLean would be better and two talls means the small forwards would be better and the midfield could bomb it inside 50 when under pressure knowing theres a good chance of a contest.

acknowledging that Reid is not the best tall forward, Sinkers is not the best ruck and Brand and Melican are not the best defenders.. they'd all improve the players around them.
 

The King!

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Come on King?!!? Brand and Melican are not world beaters, but if one of them played (Melican got injured) - Rampe would be better, Allirr would be better, The Swans would be better
If Sinkers played, that would give us McLean as a tall up forward and if Reid played, we'd have two talls up forward - reid means McLean would be better and two talls means the small forwards would be better and the midfield could bomb it inside 50 when under pressure knowing theres a good chance of a contest.

acknowledging that Reid is not the best tall forward, Sinkers is not the best ruck and Brand and Melican are not the best defenders.. they'd all improve the players around them.

we are shuffling deck chairs
mclean played forward yesterday even without Sinclair so you lost me there
brand and melican are no better than anyone who played yesterday, melican getting hurt mid game hurt, but eagles were down shuey so they were worse off. I mean we could have picked gould and ammertey etc if height was a worry, they are just as proven as brand and melican, we could have played blakey at full forward

we cant cover 5 players, 2 of which have barely played footy, you can dream it makes a difference if you want, but unless buddy has a miracle recovery theres mimimal difference to be had imo

we can go back and forth over our small injury list if you like, but we lost yesterday and would have regardless 8/10 times as we aren't as good as them, not sure why thats so bad to say, im not saying we arent on the right track or arent improving, juet realistically naismith franklin and reid are probably all done as afl players, sinclair is a hack and brand is just another possibly ok player
 

SGBeach

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we are shuffling deck chairs
mclean played forward yesterday even without Sinclair so you lost me there
brand and melican are no better than anyone who played yesterday, melican getting hurt mid game hurt, but eagles were down shuey so they were worse off. I mean we could have picked gould and ammertey etc if height was a worry, they are just as proven as brand and melican, we could have played blakey at full forward

we cant cover 5 players, 2 of which have barely played footy, you can dream it makes a difference if you want, but unless buddy has a miracle recovery theres mimimal difference to be had imo

we can go back and forth over our small injury list if you like, but we lost yesterday and would have regardless 8/10 times as we aren't as good as them, not sure why thats so bad to say, im not saying we arent on the right track or arent improving, juet realistically naismith franklin and reid are probably all done as afl players, sinclair is a hack and brand is just another possibly ok player
McLean played in the ruck and as the sole tall forward!
instead of Gould and Amartey - we picked McLean and Melican because they're not teenagers and have played a handful of senior games. We picked our 8th and 9th best talls rather than our worst and second worst talls (or our least (none) experienced)
you're a stubborn prick aren't you !
I challenge you to take any teams best three tall forwards out + their best three rucks + their best two tall defenders out.. no team would win
The consequences of these players out seriously affects the players next to them
 

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caesar88

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an experienced tall? but dont name aliir, but take your word Brand is a proven defender? so basically the inexperienced guys who played aren't good but the ones who didn't play naismith and brand are proven?

Reid fine agree to disagree , but i doubt he makes a difference, I mean short arse Papley averages 5 marks a game this year, so why should Reids 5 excite me

but yes if you give me a fit buddy fine, he makes a difference

the reality is we have 3 players over 190cm with 100 games or more , we arent pushing finals even with everyone in
Probably not but with everyone in we beat Essendon, do a lot better against the Bulldogs and Eagles, and are sitting 3-2 which is pretty good. At the end of the day when you're an average side you need everything to go your way to make finals, and at least some good fortune to be close to finals. We have had nothing go our way and it makes an already struggling team really poor.

Yesterday it seemed like there were a lot of guys looking defeated and a bit meh, which is very unSwans-like. Maybe the accumulative effect of just copping sh*t luck week in, week out when we're trying to build to something great and positive has just taken the wind out of our sails.

We need a circuit breaker and I don't know what that will be.
 

The King!

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Probably not but with everyone in we beat Essendon, do a lot better against the Bulldogs and Eagles, and are sitting 3-2 which is pretty good. At the end of the day when you're an average side you need everything to go your way to make finals, and at least some good fortune to be close to finals. We have had nothing go our way and it makes an already struggling team really poor.

Yesterday it seemed like there were a lot of guys looking defeated and a bit meh, which is very unSwans-like. Maybe the accumulative effect of just copping sh*t luck week in, week out when we're trying to build to something great and positive has just taken the wind out of our sails.

We need a circuit breaker and I don't know what that will be.
But why don't essendon get their players off the injury list to play us? we are what we are, we haven't had any worse luck with injuries than most imo,
 

caesar88

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But why don't essendon get their players off the injury list to play us? we are what we are, we haven't had any worse luck with injuries than most imo,
BS

We get one in we lose another one. That means there is no continuity.

And they're all talls. That means as soon as we encounter an aerial side (Essendon, West Coast), we're automatically at a disadvantage.

I mean think about what you're saying... our first, second, and third choice key forwards... all out. Our first, second, and probably third ruckman... all out. One of our key defenders... out.

Individually they don't make much of a difference (besides Buddy obviously) but collectively that just carves a massive hole in our side that I'm not sure any team could overcome.

I just would've liked to have seen more effort to at least try to overcome it than what we've seen the last two weeks.
 

The King!

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McLean played in the ruck and as the sole tall forward!
instead of Gould and Amartey - we picked McLean and Melican because they're not teenagers and have played a handful of senior games. We picked our 8th and 9th best talls rather than our worst and second worst talls (or our least (none) experienced)
you're a stubborn prick aren't you !
I challenge you to take any teams best three tall forwards out + their best three rucks + their best two tall defenders out.. no team would win
The consequences of these players out seriously affects the players next to them

We are going around in circles, we havent lost our 3 best tall forwards - we lost buddy- McCartin hasnt been forward f all this year and reid we went over but whatever

i conceded we lost out best ruck but he isnt nic nats a-hole , brand is unproven

im only as stubborn as you, we keep going back over the same sh*t, i think the injuries are being used as an excuse, you think they are an excuse

put that aside i think you and I are actually both similarly pleased with yesterday and the season considering where the list is at, we just disagree on whats missing and its impact would that be a fair summary?



positives to me are and obviously all have work to do but i have florent mcinnerney rowbottom i feel i can look at and see a strong future

ive still got parker at 27, i have hewett if he signs on as a good run with player who can kick a goal

lloyd i kmow what i get, he can find it
mclean looks at least serviceable

i have papley as great small forward

still have heeney and mills at worst are b grade 200 gamers at either end

blakey is a tease but geez theres something there

i just have a few i could go either way on aliir, hayward - who have looked good but concern me more at times

then i have some dead wood, but tries hard and older guys
 

The King!

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BS

We get one in we lose another one. That means there is no continuity.

And they're all talls. That means as soon as we encounter an aerial side (Essendon, West Coast), we're automatically at a disadvantage.

I mean think about what you're saying... our first, second, and third choice key forwards... all out. Our first, second, and probably third ruckman... all out. One of our key defenders... out.

Individually they don't make much of a difference but collectively that just carves a massive hole in our side that I'm not sure any team could overcome.

I just would've liked to have seen more effort to at least try to overcome it than what we've seen the last two weeks.
im saying theres one guy currently injured who makes any actual difference and i dont think i see him play again, so the masive hole is overblown

if thats BS to you then fine, but to me the rest is shuffling deck chairs, if you want to argue naismith then fine ill concede his ruckwork when fit helps, but around the ground he stinks


again ignoring the impact other sides changes have, essendon have more hurt than us and chop and change the side every week , so not sure we suddenly win that
 

caesar88

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im saying theres one guy currently injured who makes any actual difference and i dont think i see him play again, so the masive hole is overblown

if thats BS to you then fine, but to me the rest is shuffling deck chairs, if you want to argue naismith then fine ill concede his ruckwork when fit helps, but around the ground he stinks
I'm saying they have a cumulative effect on the whole team when you're constantly shuffling deck chairs, so to speak. If you're going into a game with a settled 22 you'll be more confident than if you're going in with a makeshift team as we have done pretty much every week this year.
 

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I'm saying they have a cumulative effect on the whole team when you're constantly shuffling deck chairs, so to speak. If you're going into a game with a settled 22 you'll be more confident than if you're going in with a makeshift team as we have done pretty much every week this year.

I agree, but so have many other sides including the one we supposedly beat with changes in essendon who as much as I fu**EN hate them have been piddling about with changes every week
 

caesar88

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I agree, but so have many other sides including the one we supposedly beat with changes in essendon who as much as I fu**EN hate them have been piddling about with changes every week
They were a better ******* side than us already as much as you don't want to admit it
 

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They were a better ******* side than us already as much as you don't want to admit it

That’s what I’m saying

They are all better than us even if the team had 0 changes a week and the best 22

We aren’t that good yet! You are the one changing it to a win if we had some changes to the injury list but somehow Essendon don’t get the same rules
 

caesar88

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That’s what I’m saying

They are all better than us even if the team had 0 changes a week and the best 22

We aren’t that good yet!
No sh*t but we're worse than we would be if we had full or close to full cattle we could get on the park. And when all the injuries are to the same types you can pencil us in for an automatic loss against any team with aerial capacity even if they were teams we otherwise might've beat.

We had a small chance at finals this year, footy gods have given us no chance.
 

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I think 2 wins 3 Losses is probably a fair reflection where we are at.

At the start of the season, I was probably more optimistic than most. I thought we would be a middle 6 side (7th-12th) where we would beat most other mid table sides if we played well and the occasional top side. But its looks like we will end up being a bottom 6 side.

This season there has been a lot inconsistency between our quarters. Against Essendon we had a bad first quarter then gradually came back later in the game. Bulldogs deserved their lead, but third quarter we had a lot of dominance but wasted our scoring opportunities. We played well early against West Coast but needed to get a early lead to reflect that.
 

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He showed enough to be a big improvement on many of our motley crew.

Aliir may be tall but he doesn't play like a tall. He struggles with marks and he's as soft as bum-fluff. He adds nothing to our structure

Lets call a spade a spade. Aliir shits himself. Players that sh*t themselves from physical pressure regardless of being perceived or otherwise is always going to struggle when it comes to overhead marking. That effort out on the wing where he fumbled the ball for 5 minutes without body pressure was the near the worst efforts i have seen from a Senior AFL Footballer. You would not see that level of incompetency in a B Grade Suburban Reserves game. Having said that where is the intercepting marking defender with a bit of dash he showed in 2016 ?
 

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