Autopsy Eagles defeat Swans by 34

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caesar88

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I agree, but i reckon we saw the same with Hewett in 2016/17, and he hasn’t quite kicked on. Finding those guys that turn into solid B/A graders is hard.
Hewett's been used as a tagger most of his career and is currently playing a strange half forward/wing hybrid role. Like the guy at the party who went way too hard at pre-drinks, what chance did he ever have to kick on?

He is not the only one. Players like Lloyd, Mills, Dawson, Heeney we have so far used in somewhat strange roles that I think don't allow them to elevate into A-grader territory. I said pre-season that I could see Blakey suffering the same fate in that he's a real talent that Horse might not know what to do with.
 

S120

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While it would be nice to have some more info on the guys not currently in the AFL team, reading through those reports on the GWS players you get:

"really strong inside and continues to produce an AFL-level product at this level"
"Another strong performance... ready to go when called upon"
"relished the new role inside... tackled unbelievably well... some great run on the outside."
"just brimming along and he’s AFL-ready for when the call comes"
"covered the ground really well... he hasn’t missed a beat. He had a bit of a jump in the ruck and was great"
"really strong again... He’s covering the ground as well as we’ve seen"
"His case for AFL just keeps getting stronger and stronger... He’s going to be a great inclusion when it comes.”
"He’s just becoming a really strong and consistent winger for us... his ball use is as good as we’ve seen"
"A really strong performance"
"definitely his best game for the year... really strong defensively today... on the right path in his development to get back to AFL level."
"He was good two weeks ago, better last week and then even better today...He’s another one pushing his case"
"He couldn’t be going much better... his running is so strong and he’s clean."
"didn’t look like he missed a beat. He was strong, he was quick, he was clean"

It would appear that every GWS player is strong, great, covering the ground well, doing as well as ever, clean, hasn't missed a beat and ready to play AFL.

I just want to be able to watch the footage so I can make my own judgements rather than reading purely positive PR copy.
Yeh I meant the quickness with which they released info on the game - the actual content is just about useless as you suggest.
 

Ralphyboy

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May 25, 2016
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Hewett's been used as a tagger most of his career and is currently playing a strange half forward/wing hybrid role. Like the guy at the party who went way too hard at pre-drinks, what chance did he ever have to kick on?

He is not the only one. Players like Lloyd, Mills, Dawson, Heeney we have so far used in somewhat strange roles that I think don't allow them to elevate into A-grader territory. I said pre-season that I could see Blakey suffering the same fate in that he's a real talent that Horse might not know what to do with.
The half forward/winger role is difficult but critical. The position plays on the oppositions best half backs, think a lachie whitfield. Whilst being a forward they also have a critical role in shutting down the running half backs who set up the attacking plays. It is a role that involves endless gut running, blocking space and trying to stop the fast break. Not many goals are kicked in this role, and often there are not many opportunities for easy disposals. Not everyone can be a papley, sitting deep in the forward line and scoring goals. Guys like James Rose just could not do it, leaving the corridor wide open for a fast rebound.
 

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caesar88

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The half forward/winger role is difficult but critical. The position plays on the oppositions best half backs, think a lachie whitfield. Whilst being a forward they also have a critical role in shutting down the running half backs who set up the attacking plays. It is a role that involves endless gut running, blocking space and trying to stop the fast break. Not many goals are kicked in this role, and often there are not many opportunities for easy disposals. Not everyone can be a papley, sitting deep in the forward line and scoring goals. Guys like James Rose just could not do it, leaving the corridor wide open for a fast rebound.
I wasn't dismissing the role nor Hewett's job at doing it, just saying that it's hard to elevate yourself to the next level as a player in that role.
 

Prez

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I enjoyed the 1st half tactics of taking the game on , getting back in the corridor as much as possible. It worked even with a number of turnovers by being 5 points down at 1/2 time. I think a couple of injuries and maybe a superior team seeing its opportunity to increase pressure through their dominate ruck became to much for our group.
We need a true forward target back as quick as possible. Down back we do need to bring in two big guys, even if untried, to release Rampie from playing on the big forwards and allowing him to attack which is his natural style. We can't have wholsale changes but need to take risks in positional structures.
 

bungee

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if Brand was in and Melican out he would be telling us Melican is the better option
if sinclair played ahead and mclean didnt it would be Sinclair isnt up to it but remember what mclean showed

aliir will probably get injured then suddenly be a world beater
Don't try to put comments in my mouth King. Get a room with Punts.
 

bungee

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I wasn't dismissing the role nor Hewett's job at doing it, just saying that it's hard to elevate yourself to the next level as a player in that role.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Hewett came in with B- potential but we've turned him into a B+ and he may yet become an A- player. He's not overly fast, strong or gifted but he plays a role well. Most AFL clubs are pretty good at finding where a player can exceed their potential if given the right role. It's why we've had players like Richards and Barry, poor forwards who, despite their limitations, were made very effective in a role. It's why Macca became a good defender after his midfield career ended, ditto Jude playing forward. We generally move young players around to find the role that suits them best unless, like Mills, they're critical to a position.
 

Dubai Quacker

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I hardly need you dribbling even more sh*t because you think it's what I would have said. I stand by my comment that Brand is a better defender than Melican. If you want to make snide comments about me to Punts you can PM him or get a room.
Melican lacks a burst of speed & will forever be lacking against lead-out forwards.

You can’t learn speed.
 

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J_Moore

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I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Hewett came in with B- potential but we've turned him into a B+ and he may yet become an A- player. He's not overly fast, strong or gifted but he plays a role well. Most AFL clubs are pretty good at finding where a player can exceed their potential if given the right role. It's why we've had players like Richards and Barry, poor forwards who, despite their limitations, were made very effective in a role. It's why Macca became a good defender after his midfield career ended, ditto Jude playing forward. We generally move young players around to find the role that suits them best unless, like Mills, they're critical to a position.
i think Hewett is a reliable C-grader. For my mind, a bloke like Jude Bolton was a B-grade player, and Hewett’s not risen to that level yet.
 

Dubsforsam1

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Put Brand and Melican into that team and it frees Rampe/Aliir/Mills up and the Lloyd/Cunningham etc get freed up further up the ground

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

mtooler

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To me the INS this week were totally insane after last week. The flip flop about Mills to mids or not by Longmire. Florent destroyed the momentum in first quarter resulting in turnover goals and costing us on our side, he cant kick, I know Im in a distinct minority here, but how people continue to see him as one of our best on field every week is mind blowing to me.
 

caesar88

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To me the INS this week were totally insane after last week. The flip flop about Mills to mids or not by Longmire. Florent destroyed the momentum in first quarter resulting in turnover goals and costing us on our side, he cant kick, I know Im in a distinct minority here, but how people continue to see him as one of our best on field every week is mind blowing to me.
Let me explain it to you from my perspective. 95% of the AFL players these days are average at best when it comes to foot skills. Florent is no exception. Hell, he might even be closer to poor than he is average. But there's a difference between a kick that's poor, and a kick that's to our disadvantage. The kicks that Parker, Kennedy, our rucks etc do out of the centre square, they are to our disadvantage. They're off one step from the centre circle which means they result in shallow forward 50 entries, not to mention they're lofty air-balls that cater to opposition defences.

Florent usually creates a bit more space and gains more distance with his kicks by using his pace and evasion. This means that even though they are dodgy and unpredictable and usually miss their target, they actually work out quite often for us, because they go deeper inside 50, meaning it's an entry we can lock in our forward line, plus they're lower which gives us a chance to win it as a ground ball instead of some opposition hack like Nick Haynes or Michael Hurley just cutting them off in the air.

A fitting comparison would be Rhyce Shaw vs Jake Lloyd. Shaw's kicks rarely left his boot with any style or method. They were often wobbly chaos balls delivered after a bursting run off half back. But they had penetration and distance, so they ultimately achieved their objective which is to clear it out of defence. Lloyd's kicks in recent years are technically faultless. They leave his boot with textbook perfection, but are slow and too delicate, and often don't achieve anything in defensive 50 other than an awful turnover from an opponent chopping it off.

So I would happily take Florent's chaotic but attacking kicks over Kennedy or Parker's routine but destructive hack kicks. I think his clearances are far more effective to our scoring than anyone else's. However on Saturday I felt like Florent did too many kicks that at best, achieved nothing, and at worst, led to blatant turnovers. And you might notice I didn't give him a vote in the POTY for his game on the weekend.

Just how I see it.
 

BloodySwan

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So I only got to watch the match last night, it wasn't actually that bad a performance. Shows where we are at as a team. Strong group of kids still improving, we lacked some key positions, had some passengers as well. Feel like we lost it on the selection table though. I know we've got some serious injuries but Aliir shouldn't have been in the ruck, Hayward shouldn't have been playing. Dawson down forward wasn't a complete failure but his kicks out of defence were needed.
 

J_Moore

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To me the INS this week were totally insane after last week. The flip flop about Mills to mids or not by Longmire. Florent destroyed the momentum in first quarter resulting in turnover goals and costing us on our side, he cant kick, I know Im in a distinct minority here, but how people continue to see him as one of our best on field every week is mind blowing to me.
he’s one of our best mids, who can’t kick.

I think he just stands out because, sadly, he’s one of the few players on the list who has shown actusl improvement, and who now rarely goes missing. It means people will forgive a lot.
 

mtooler

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Feb 5, 2012
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Let me explain it to you from my perspective. 95% of the AFL players these days are average at best when it comes to foot skills. Florent is no exception. Hell, he might even be closer to poor than he is average. But there's a difference between a kick that's poor, and a kick that's to our disadvantage. The kicks that Parker, Kennedy, our rucks etc do out of the centre square, they are to our disadvantage. They're off one step from the centre circle which means they result in shallow forward 50 entries, not to mention they're lofty air-balls that cater to opposition defences.

Florent usually creates a bit more space and gains more distance with his kicks by using his pace and evasion. This means that even though they are dodgy and unpredictable and usually miss their target, they actually work out quite often for us, because they go deeper inside 50, meaning it's an entry we can lock in our forward line, plus they're lower which gives us a chance to win it as a ground ball instead of some opposition hack like Nick Haynes or Michael Hurley just cutting them off in the air.

A fitting comparison would be Rhyce Shaw vs Jake Lloyd. Shaw's kicks rarely left his boot with any style or method. They were often wobbly chaos balls delivered after a bursting run off half back. But they had penetration and distance, so they ultimately achieved their objective which is to clear it out of defence. Lloyd's kicks in recent years are technically faultless. They leave his boot with textbook perfection, but are slow and too delicate, and often don't achieve anything in defensive 50 other than an awful turnover from an opponent chopping it off.

So I would happily take Florent's chaotic but attacking kicks over Kennedy or Parker's routine but destructive hack kicks. I think his clearances are far more effective to our scoring than anyone else's. However on Saturday I felt like Florent did too many kicks that at best, achieved nothing, and at worst, led to blatant turnovers. And you might notice I didn't give him a vote in the POTY for his game on the weekend.

Just how I see it.
Cheers, fair points made. :)
 

mtooler

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So I only got to watch the match last night, it wasn't actually that bad a performance. Shows where we are at as a team. Strong group of kids still improving, we lacked some key positions, had some passengers as well. Feel like we lost it on the selection table though. I know we've got some serious injuries but Aliir shouldn't have been in the ruck, Hayward shouldn't have been playing. Dawson down forward wasn't a complete failure but his kicks out of defence were needed.
Reckon our young players are improving? Heeney and Mills will they get better, already peaked?
 

BloodySwan

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Reckon our young players are improving? Heeney and Mills will they get better, already peaked?
Heeney looks like he could be All Australian. If he had a stronger team around him I think we'd see more of what he can do.

Mills is still improving, has shown at his best he's a match winner but is struggling with some consistency this season.

I think we're too quick to write all these kids off if they're not instant world beaters but if you compare both to their draft years they're within the top 5 on each
 

caesar88

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Heeney cops a lot of flack for his consistency but I have rarely seen Marcus 'Has There Ever Been a Greater Player?' Bontempelli play two or three great games in a row.

Exhibit A - after giving us a whooping with no direct attention (but then predictably fading as soon as that attention came in the second half), he had 11 possessions against the Roos.

Heeney really isn't that bad and even on the weekend had some major moments of class. We'd be utterly ****ed without him.
 

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