Early Concerns

[AsianWithAFro]

Hey,
I was impressed how we fought bak in the kangas game but we were lucky to win it. What I dont understand is why we didnt play attacking football from the get go. If we don't play attacking football for 4 quarters where buggered against the Weagles. Also Bryan should play instead of that dud Guy Richards.

 

[Frederlick]

Relax a little, chill. Have a look across the board at all results this weekend, there are teams at different stages of fitness depending on where they finished last year and injuries. Rememebr 2 or 3 top flight players to return before mid year (please let it be sooner), things aren't as bad as the first 3 quarters looked. I mean look at Adelaide and Freo, both went down, so yesterdays rusty start was hopefully just that, and Judd with a good corky last night and a hard game for the Eagles, could be worse. Give em a couple of weeks to settle because there are new faces and they started a few weeks after a lot of lower ranked teams. The cream rose in the end. Next week is just what they need, get thrown in the deep end, I reckon they will be looking forward to it.

 

[Jabso]

Hey,
I was impressed how we fought bak in the kangas game but we were lucky to win it. What I dont understand is why we didnt play attacking football from the get go. If we don't play attacking football for 4 quarters where buggered against the Weagles. Also Bryan should play instead of that dud Guy Richards.

We tried to play attacking football but we just stuffed up too much and lacked direction. Our mistakes kept snowballing due to quickly declining confidence. The fact kangaroos had a lot of shots on goal from players running forward loose shows we were just taking too many risks without enough reward. And once that happens, confidence declines and they don't take many risks and play in their shells. I was always thinking we just need some exciting pieces of play or quite simply 2 goals in a row and we might be alright. This is why I thought Thomas was especially important.

Still obviously it was a troublesome and worrying 3 quarters however I disagree that we were playing defensive.

 

[luvlicca]

I hate to be the one to say it, and people dont have to agree with it, but really think we missed Tazza's run up the ground yesterday. It was like a hole for some of the game. Rocca didnt look right coming so far up the ground, and I think that if this continues, Tazza's departure will come back to bite us on the ass!

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I hate to be the one to say it, and people dont have to agree with it, but really think we missed Tazza's run up the ground yesterday. It was like a hole for some of the game. Rocca didnt look right coming so far up the ground, and I think that if this continues, Tazza's departure will come back to bite us on the ass!

Have to agree. Might be worth promoting Reid early to try to get that run. Maxwell could be a forward option too(no one crucify me, just an idea). But I still think we were in the right trading Tarrant. MM obviously thought Rusling was a safe bet to fill that position. Plus N. Brown, Dawes both coming along aswell in future seasons.

 

[luvlicca]

Have to agree. Might be worth promoting Reid early to try to get that run. Maxwell could be a forward option too(no one crucify me, just an idea). But I still think we were in the right trading Tarrant. MM obviously thought Rusling was a safe bet to fill that position. Plus N. Brown, Dawes both coming along aswell in future seasons.

But until these guys come in or whether they do or not, there is always going to be that question mark over who is going to get that possesin that Taz did up on the wing.

If we find someone who can do that and be in the top 3 for goal assists, then great, but I really cant see that happening anytime soon.

 

[PieLebo87]

I hate to be the one to say it, and people dont have to agree with it, but really think we missed Tazza's run up the ground yesterday. It was like a hole for some of the game. Rocca didnt look right coming so far up the ground, and I think that if this continues, Tazza's departure will come back to bite us on the ass!

I have to agree with the top part. But not the bottom.
We have T Cloke who can run up the ground and fill Tarrant's role. His amazing goal from the boundary shows he has the ability to play such a role.
Rusling will be back sooner or later to be another big quick body in the forward line too.

But I did have a moment where I thought to myself, Ill never see Chris Tarrant play in a Collingwood jumper again
And it was sad.

I don't know if anyone is up for this. But can we gather some info on Taz, like his best game for Collingwood. Most goals in a game. Highest possessions gathered in a game. Most marks (16, i think) in a game. Ect. It would be an interesting read.

 

[daics cousin]

We can mould josh or reid into taking over from Tarrant.Josh needs to have the ruck covered by either bryan or richards for him to move forward more of the game.Reid has played very well for williamsatown could be the likely replacement.Ironic since we traded taz for reid.Reid is young ,very quick and is a booming kick,he still needs to bulk up tophalf of his body.At 196 cm he will a hard to match up on once he becomes a regular player.
Come to think of now,Reid would be the likely player to take over from taz.
Dawes is a big unit he will hold down centre half forward when he comes good.Basically taking over from rocca.Nathan Brown i'm not to sure on?
Got to give the kid a go but,judging on west coast's game his brother mitchell played a great game.Hope we didn't pick the wrong brown?

 

[doppleganger]

not sure where all the play josh forward stuff comes from, he looked absolutely lost and didn't know what to do, couldn't find any space when up forward

he plays his best footy as a ruck

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

not sure where all the play josh forward stuff comes from, he looked absolutely lost and didn't know what to do, couldn't find any space when up forward

he plays his best footy as a ruck

Therein lies the irony. Great player but cant ruck, and sometimes gets lost when playing forward. Ideally he needs to play as a non-rucking on-baller, like Goodes. If we had another ruck option, that is.

 

[Jabso]

Fraser is a ruckman. He gets clearences himself and his follow up work at the ruck contests is second to none and hence stops alot of clearences even if he is clearly beaten to the tap. You can't say he is just a ruck rover, becuase being an extra option around the ground is just, if not more important as hitouts in the modern ruckman's game. Fraser has had many games where he lifted us in the ruck, I can only think of 2 or 3 if I'm lucky where he has influenced the game as a forward. I just think he is our #1 ruckman by far, and even with a better tap ruckman in the side, I'd want Fraser to play most of the game in the ruck. His strengths as a ruckman far outwiegh his overhyped negatives (reportably abysmal ruckwork, when in fact it is solid).

 

[WakeUpPies]

I hate to be the one to say it, and people dont have to agree with it, but really think we missed Tazza's run up the ground yesterday. It was like a hole for some of the game. Rocca didnt look right coming so far up the ground, and I think that if this continues, Tazza's departure will come back to bite us on the ass!

taz usually eats the kangas, he kicked 1/5 of his goals against the kangas in round 3 last year, i still think its good we traded him

 

[MarkT]

What I dont understand is why we didnt play attacking football from the get go. If we don't play attacking football for 4 quarters where buggered against the Weagles. Also Bryan should play instead of that dud Guy Richards.

My reading of the game was that we were smashed out of the middle early but won some clearance in the last Q. You always look more attacking when you win the ball from the centre bounce. For the first 3 quarters we took first possession from half back under pressure. Some senior players stood up and some youngsters followed their lead. That’s how it should be only we were very lucky North were not good enough to have well and truly put us away by ¾ time.

 

[MarkT]

Fraser is a ruckman. He gets clearences himself and his follow up work at the ruck contests is second to none and hence stops alot of clearences even if he is clearly beaten to the tap. You can't say he is just a ruck rover, becuase being an extra option around the ground is just, if not more important as hitouts in the modern ruckman's game. Fraser has had many games where he lifted us in the ruck, I can only think of 2 or 3 if I'm lucky where he has influenced the game as a forward. I just think he is our #1 ruckman by far, and even with a better tap ruckman in the side, I'd want Fraser to play most of the game in the ruck. His strengths as a ruckman far outwiegh his overhyped negatives (reportably abysmal ruckwork, when in fact it is solid).

In as much as he rucks then yes he is. He doesn’t win nearly enough quality taps to be classified as a quality ruckman. As a follower he can be very good although he was average on Saturday. McIntoch had his measure for the most part.

As for the importance of hitouts just take a look at 3 finals where one side had a ruck advantage. The 2002 GF. Lions win the centre a few times in time on periods and back up goals with following goals. The 2003 GF. Lions set the entire basis of the day’s play from the ruck. They play to their strengths and negate ours which we were able to play to in the wet 12 months earlier. The 2005 final Sydney v Geelong. Nick Davis wins the game. Thank you Jason Ball.

Let’s just be perfectly clear about this. As far as the 16 clubs first ruck options go Fraser is among the worst as a tap ruckman and some clubs have 2 or 3 better options. Fraser is a good follower but if you ask me one of the best midfielders will have more impact than one of the best followers. Fraser’s best value would be as a floating forward than ventures where his nose takes him and where few backs could effectively follow him over the course of the match. Meanwhile we need a couple of class mids and a tap ruckman.

 

[twoforjoy]

just out of interest, who coaches the rucks for the pies?

 

[Jimbeam]

I have been thinking about how to play fraser and always felt in my gut a free roaming fraser across half forward is probably a coaches worst nightmare. Rocca and Trav can get him some space and its goto damage any team. The problem has always been no ****ing backup, if i was MM its time richards got the guantlett, now or never, make him ruck against cox and let fraser run lose, im sure josh can help out around the ground but force richards to do SOMETHING. Not only is Richards ruining his own career his is messing with joshs by limiting his impact to the ruck only, its playing right into opposition hands.. If richards does not have any balls, bring in brian and let him cause some damage. Its a win win, richards takes the bounces and pushes back fraser does the work up forward.. split the ground.. However i would rather brian anyday of the week, he is a footballer, unlike richards who is just ****ing TALL

 

[Big Bryza]

Yeah richards has had plenty on opportunities and just hasn't delivered. We drafted Bryan so lets bloody well play him. I think Fraser is just an exceptionally tall midfielder, i dont rate him as a ruckman but more of a floating tall who can play anywhere across the ground. It's a shame for him we dont have a ruckman.

 

[Big Bryza]

And also lets give reid a crack sooner rather than later... I know hes still 17 but he should play 6-8 games this season purely for a taste of it so he can go into next pre season craving another chance. Play him in big games like this weekend and if he plays well fantastic if not then so be it. Also is nathan brown close to gettin a gig?? His brother impressed on saturday night.

 

[Frederlick]

In as much as he rucks then yes he is. He doesn’t win nearly enough quality taps to be classified as a quality ruckman. As a follower he can be very good although he was average on Saturday. McIntoch had his measure for the most part.

As for the importance of hitouts just take a look at 3 finals where one side had a ruck advantage. The 2002 GF. Lions win the centre a few times in time on periods and back up goals with following goals. The 2003 GF. Lions set the entire basis of the day’s play from the ruck. They play to their strengths and negate ours which we were able to play to in the wet 12 months earlier. The 2005 final Sydney v Geelong. Nick Davis wins the game. Thank you Jason Ball.

Let’s just be perfectly clear about this. As far as the 16 clubs first ruck options go Fraser is among the worst as a tap ruckman and some clubs have 2 or 3 better options. Fraser is a good follower but if you ask me one of the best midfielders will have more impact than one of the best followers. Fraser’s best value would be as a floating forward than ventures where his nose takes him and where few backs could effectively follow him over the course of the match. Meanwhile we need a couple of class mids and a tap ruckman.

I agree with Fraser being a less than ideal tap ruck but he was actually one of the better players in the 03 granny and it wasn't just the ruck that cost them that day. Some weeks rucks just don't match up and to be honest it wasn't just Fraser who failed to deliver in the first half against the Roos. If ruckman are getting beaten the smalls should anticipate that and cover the opposition options but they just weren't doing it. I must have seen the ball drop directly to the ground at least 4 times to a Roos runner, and I mean runner, who had lined up and run through the center circle in anticipation of an inconclusive hit out. Just smarter footy for 2 quarters. And as a skilled tall Fraser does influence the game as you suggest midfielders do. In at least 3 matches last year there was a swing of momentum every time Fraser was following, IMHO, ANZAC Day, when the Bombers played their little pants off, the West Coast game (over there) and the second Carlton game when they came hard and Fraser was everywhere in the last quarter. Problem with floating forward role is that I don't believe he is a strong enough mark to pull it off.