Expansion ? ""EAST COAST" AUSTRALIA"...as AFL State of Origin Combine team.. NSW/ACT/QLD. Would it work ? Could it compete ??

[Howard Littlejohn]

Value the opinions of all of the above. I think AFL SOO would definitely rate, particularly post grand final....I recall....and it is going a long way back....late 60's early 70's the VFL Premiers would take on the SANFL Premiers at Adelaide Oval...... always a full house. It would always rate.. The classic match was 1972 when North Adelaide beat Carlton by a point.... maybe the Blues were still celebrating from the week before. In 1971 Hawthorn def Nth Adelaide in front of 37,000 .
Seems to me there is a let down after the Grand Final.. except for Premiers..........you need a "After Party Footy "...

Games involving Victoria probably would rate, at least unless they got too predictable and occurred too often. The other games, not much. WA v SA should draw an audience, but how many in Vic would watch it. Maybe as part of a structured competition, as opposed to the (usual) stand-alone games origin used to be.

Using the club based stuff as a precedent is fraught with danger for predicting, people already followed those clubs and it was almost the equivalent of a "champions league" in Association Football. One league was generally stronger, but perhaps not by as much as some like to think. As well as it being half a century ago; and people have changed, if not by as much as the media landscape.

 

[speedpeck23]

Games involving Victoria probably would rate, at least unless they got too predictable and occurred too often. The other games, not much. WA v SA should draw an audience, but how many in Vic would watch it. Maybe as part of a structured competition, as opposed to the (usual) stand-alone games origin used to be.

Using the club based stuff as a precedent is fraught with danger for predicting, people already followed those clubs and it was almost the equivalent of a "champions league" in Association Football. One league was generally stronger, but perhaps not by as much as some like to think. As well as it being half a century ago; and people have changed, if not by as much as the media landscape.

Agree re clubs....I was just saying that in those days you still got crowds the week after the Grand Final. The SA v Vic state was always big.... dog eat dog... SA hate Vic.... the rivalry is easily as big as NSW/Qld... in NRL... NRL SOO is based on where you first player senior RL....so a bit of give and take on who plays in which team... AFL / VFL was based on Junior footy.. or where you grew up basically....bit more heart and soul..

 

[iameviljez]

Agree re clubs....I was just saying that in those days you still got crowds the week after the Grand Final. The SA v Vic state was always big.... dog eat dog... SA hate Vic.... the rivalry is easily as big as NSW/Qld... in NRL... NRL SOO is based on where you first player senior RL....so a bit of give and take on who plays in which team... AFL / VFL was based on Junior footy.. or where you grew up basically....bit more heart and soul..

The issue is that the rivalry used to be big… but not any more. I don’t think Victorians care at all, and I doubt many South Australians do either. It’s an old man’s rivalry.

 

[speedpeck23]

The issue is that the rivalry used to be big… but not any more. I don’t think Victorians care at all, and I doubt many South Australians do either. It’s an old man’s rivalry.

Thanks mate ! Pretty much like all those old Premiership Flags the Hawks have I guess.

 

[Sttew]

You sure you ever understood Origin?

NRL got the idea of State of Origin from the AFL.

We don’t need SOO in my opinion. For NRL it is everything because the home and away competition is really just a suburban competition lucky to attract 10,000 to a game.

Call me selfish but I don’t want to see Geelong footballers suffer serious injuries in a meaningless exhibition game.

 

[speedpeck23]

NRL got the idea of State of Origin from the AFL.

We don’t need SOO in my opinion. For NRL it is everything because the home and away competition is really just a suburban competition lucky to attract 10,000 to a game.

Call me selfish but I don’t want to see Geelong footballers suffer serious injuries in a meaningless exhibition game.

With due respect, you could be considered selfish. Your team Geelong is able to recruit players from anywhere in Australia, including South Australia. A star player recruited from South Australia could make his name at the elite level playing for the Cats. He could appear in an AFL Grand Final played in Melbourne , Victoria representing a Victorian Club. Despite reaching the pinnacle of his career in footy he will never get the chance to represent his home state playing in a high profile match at the elite level. To me this counters the logic of the AFL expansion philosophy.

It's the very reason State of Origin began in Aussie Rules. How ridiculous it was Polly Farmer the most famous Cat of all in the mid 1960's at his peak represented Victoria. Fortunately he was lucky enough to represent WA a number of times, including 1961 in Brisbane when WA won the Interstate Carnival beating Victoria. Polly is a Legend of the Game.... fortunately his legendary status was not only achieved in Victoria but also his home state WA.
Lucky he didn't play in this era for the Cat's.....the fact that he came from WA would have been considered an interesting but obscure after thought unrelated to his career.... but the Geelong supporters of today probably wouldn't care too much about where their players come from.

 

[Sttew]

With due respect, you could be considered selfish. Your team Geelong is able to recruit players from anywhere in Australia, including South Australia. A star player recruited from South Australia could make his name at the elite level playing for the Cats. He could appear in an AFL Grand Final played in Melbourne , Victoria representing a Victorian Club. Despite reaching the pinnacle of his career in footy he will never get the chance to represent his home state playing in a high profile match at the elite level. To me this counters the logic of the AFL expansion philosophy.

It's the very reason State of Origin began in Aussie Rules. How ridiculous it was Polly Farmer the most famous Cat of all in the mid 1960's at his peak represented Victoria. Fortunately he was lucky enough to represent WA a number of times, including 1961 in Brisbane when WA won the Interstate Carnival beating Victoria. Polly is a Legend of the Game.... fortunately his legendary status was not only achieved in Victoria but also his home state WA.
Lucky he didn't play in this era for the Cat's.....the fact that he came from WA would have been considered an interesting but obscure after thought unrelated to his career.... but the Geelong supporters of today probably wouldn't care too much about where their players come from.

I am unashamedly selfish on this subject, and I'd have thought a Hawk supporter will remember the season ending injury to your player (Hall, I think) in the SOO in about 1989 (I think).

I am sure others feel the same. Last time we had SOO how many top line players pulled out because of "injury". SOO is just not that important to AFL because AFL is such a strong competition in its own right. And when did the demise of SOO happen in the AFL? When it became a national competition.

Let me ask you a question - how would you feel if Mitch Lewis suffered a season ending injury in a SOO match, or Lewis was reported and copped a 5 game suspension, and Hawks chances of playing finals nosedived as a consequence? I do appreciate the example is improbable.

 

[speedpeck23]

I am unashamedly selfish, and I'd have thought a Hawk supporter will remember the season ending injury to your player (Hall, I think) in the SOO in about 1989 (I think).

I am sure others feel the same. Last time we had SOO how many top line players pulled out because of "injury". SOO is just not that important to AFL because AFL is such a strong competition in its own right. And when did the demise of SOO happen in the AFL? When it became a national competition.

Let me ask you a question - how would you feel if Mitch Lewis suffered a season ending injury in a SOO match and Hawks chances of playing finals nosedived as a consequence? I do appreciate the example is unlikely.

Yes I absolutely get that. Tony Hall from SA, did his knee in the state game...out for the rest of the season. Ironically Victoria (including Jason Dunstall (QLD) and Terry Daniher (NSW) !!) v South Aust.. 90,000 at the G. It was a downer for Hawk fans but that was a mid season match. If it had been after the Grand Final a much softer blow.

I have qualified my support of SOO in the original post ..........

Play at end of season....impact of injury significantly lessened.

The are 18 clubs in the AFL comp....many players won't make a grand final... many supporters won't see their team in a grand final for years. This is a major negative for fan engagement.

SOO whilst not the Grand Final, can promote the best players in a high profile match which engages all supporters of the game....not just the supporters of the two clubs at the end of the season.

Very hard to promote fan involvement for supporters when their teams are struggling and particularly those clubs which are in expansion zones. (NSW, QLD). Right now Adelaide and West Coast are travelling badly.....almost because of that , for the sake of keeping fan engagement going thru to the end of the season.....you need SOO in SA and WA at the end of the year.

Obviously because there are ten clubs in Victoria at least some of the are going to be near the top every season....keeps the game very strong locally. Conversely only 2 teams in each of the other states means that inevitably a critical number supporters in those states in some seasons will be disengaged in the game. SOO at the end of the season counters that. That's why NRL SOO is so successful and has a great promotional role for Rugby League

I recognize that "East Coast" is a manipulation ....but it is a way of providing a vehicle to put a spotlight on the expansion in NSW and Qld.

If you can market Melbourne Storm in Victoria as "Victorian" with hardly any Victorians in the team an East Coast Aust. team with players from the East Coast should be a lot easier.

Maybe it is too early yet to expect a competitive team but if that were ultimately achievable it would be a significant promotion for the game in those states.

Play SOO only in WA, SA, TAS, NT in the short term, guarantees a passionate crowd.

I guess my vision long term is that if EAST COAST can become competitive against SA and WA ... then one day beat VICTORIA at the MCG... AFL will have achieved a significant milestone in promoting the game. I admit that is probably a decade or two away at least.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

State of Origin is a dead concept. Players are paid too much by their clubs to risk injury.

 

[Walshawk]

Merging NSW and Qld is a bad idea. You either have the Allies or each state stands alone.
SOO never coming back anyway. Sad, but true.

 

[iameviljez]

Thanks mate ! Pretty much like all those old Premiership Flags the Hawks have I guess.

Silly cheap shot

 

[maskmcgee]

The only way SOO works is if the players care about it, and the only way to do that is WA v. SA v. Vic. Nobody cares about the allies, Tasmania produces too few players to field a competitive side, NSW and Queensland could possibly field somewhat competitive sides but then you end up with 5 teams, which is not an even number, which just overcomplicates things. You either play too many games a year, or play the 'big teams' too infrequently.

The only two formats it would work in would be:
2022: WA v. SA
2023: SA v. Vic
2024: Vic v. WA

Or:

Between Rounds 6 and 7: WA v. SA
Between Rounds 13 and 14: SA v. Vic
Between Rounds 20 and 21: Vic v. WA

 

[kozi]

City v Country the only one that could feasibly work.

Place of Origin (POO)