Eastern FL - Division 2 2017

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
It's obvious you don't know what goes on behind the scenes as your next lot of examples have let you with egg on your face once again. Croydon tried and spent $$$$ to keep up with the likes of NP, Balwyn and Vermont and the nearly folded. They have done really well but once again are spending money they saved and are building up again and that is what Croydon do. Doncaster has one major person inputting huge dollars, when he gets bored pumping the dollars what then? Don't know enough about Doncaster East but they aint paying peanuts, they have a lot of sponsors but my calculations is the sponsors would not be bringing in that much money to cover their player payments. No club without an income stream can sustain current player payments.
By your calculations? Croydon almost folded?

You're just making up events and facts to suit your argument. Maybe we should worry about clubs like Carlton who survived recently on rich benefactors, just like Melbourne or half the A-League. You take what revenue you can get in a year and spend it on the team/club.

The fact is that if East Burwood are struggling so much, it's their own fault for promising more pay than they could cover. Their pride prevents them going into a season saying 'we're not going to compete with the top end, but we'll keep the club sustainable and perhaps get relegated' like most other clubs do in the same situation.

Blaming the league, the players, trying to change the rules etc. It's all nonsense and will never work. Sure the points system might be enforceable more than a salary cap, but it will just create another layer of complexity, the overall payments will remain the same. Those sides that have good revenue streams (and it doesn't matter if it's a rich benefactor, pokies or lots of supporters) will still have coin to spend on good players and EB will still be competing against them.

Renegging on player payments mid-season will make it a lot harder to recruit players than being relegated to third division
 

Vanderhum

Senior List
Mar 16, 2011
173
36
Ivanhoe
AFL Club
Melbourne
Hard to disagree with Saint but the reality is that the clubs with the most cash win. Great effort by an under manned Rams today. Kicked more goals than Mooroolbark but got headed in the last to go down by 10 points. Only a couple of late errors cost them what would have been a defining victory and the opportunity to give those that walked out the one finger salute.
 

eflreceiver

All Australian
Apr 12, 2015
824
398
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hard to disagree with Saint but the reality is that the clubs with the most cash win. Great effort by an under manned Rams today. Kicked more goals than Mooroolbark but got headed in the last to go down by 10 points. Only a couple of late errors cost them what would have been a defining victory and the opportunity to give those that walked out the one finger salute.
If the Barkers kicked straight it would have been a mauling. First time in years the Rams had to turn players away as they had too many. My thoughts are what certain people on the Rams board have done has put the club back 10 years. 3rd Division awaits, may not be this year but it will be the year after. I will add IF Scoresby can find a win this year, they will beat the Rams when they play them next so it's possible the Rams could be in Division 3 next year. I feel sorry for all those people who volunteer week in and week out who have just had their guts kicked in and their hearts ripped out.
 

Brutal

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2006
1,198
221
Heidelberg Heights
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Lower Plenty
Hard to disagree with Saint but the reality is that the clubs with the most cash win. Great effort by an under manned Rams today. Kicked more goals than Mooroolbark but got headed in the last to go down by 10 points. Only a couple of late errors cost them what would have been a defining victory and the opportunity to give those that walked out the one finger salute.
Been reading some of the posts here with great interest. For the record I am an NFL person and the club I support play div 1. Over the years we've had similar arguments with the power/money clubs dominating and the others trying to feed and survive at the lower rungs. Clubs like Northcote Park, Heidelberg, Bundoora and Montmorency have all dominated financially and with Premierships, Montmorency being the onfield exception. The reality has been that these clubs have spent up to 3 times more than clubs in the lower half of the div 1 ladder and apart from the odd occasion, pretty much shared the spoils. One thing that has been evident over the past couple of years is that the gap is closing and the competition is the great benefactor. Macleod played finals last year and are top 2 and in some minds ( inc mine ), premiership favourites. There player spend would be no more than $110-120k and perhaps smaller. They are an old fashioned local club that relies on the tried and proven income streams. There greatest asset is there ability to retain players on a year to year basis, throughout all 3 teams. They have a coach who is a perfect fit that gets the best out of his players on a consistent basis and has added value to the culture. No pokies, no rich benefactors, no signs of a company that would put in anymore than the average major sponsor. Lots of people chipping in who thrive in the environment and want to make it successful. You may say, well that is the exception these days and it's not sustainable, however I think in our comp clubs have realised that there is another way and you don't have to go broke doing it. And trust me, some of the clubs that have been the big spenders in the past, as well as those with ambition to progress see the Macleod example as the benchmark to a successful, sustainable model. I know of another club that has started up a business that they hope will in 2-3 years time be delivering up to a $100k dividend annually. They have not started this business with the hope of paying bigger player payments, but with the view to improve facilities, take stress of volunteers, supporters and traditional income streams and to also secure the club long term, well into the future. I guess what I would like to add is that being a leader doesn't mean spending more to win. If you want to be progressive and provide sustainable success, then think outside the square and work smarter. The Macleod model is a great example of where "less can actually be worth more".
 

Stevie Gee

Rookie
Apr 15, 2015
27
6
AFL Club
Essendon
Kinda disagree Stevie.

Get rid of Vermont , Noble Park , Balwyn to this next level comp?? Then what happens Norwood , Montrose and Doncaster (when they come up) continue to dominate against the lesser financed clubs???
Leave it as it is. At least in our first division there are 4 clubs that are pretty much in a league of their own. Montrose aren't far behind. Thats why relegation helps in a way. If a club can't compete they go down and rebuild if they play it smart. I personally like my club trying to survive in first division ,sometimes match it with the best and then gradually improve every year till we win the granny!!. I must be dreaming again:p

I wouldn't so much be getting rid of them, more just extending the principle of promotion and relegation to its next logical level.

Think it's stupid we even have these discussions when there's other clubs around, not far away, who'd easily compete at the top of our D1. And their leagues have the same problem.

You need promotion and relegation at all levels. Other clubs come up then they'd get promoted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
I wouldn't so much be getting rid of them, more just extending the principle of promotion and relegation to its next logical level.

Think it's stupid we even have these discussions when there's other clubs around, not far away, who'd easily compete at the top of our D1. And their leagues have the same problem.

You need promotion and relegation at all levels. Other clubs come up then they'd get promoted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How would that work when the team at the top of the EFL should be promoted, but the team relegated from the league above is somewhere like Bundoora? Keep local footy local, with all the rivalries that have developed over the years. Local footy is about the local fan wanting to go one or two suburbs over and catch a game. If they wanted to drive across the city, they could probably stop at the MCG and see a better standard match.
 

Vanderhum

Senior List
Mar 16, 2011
173
36
Ivanhoe
AFL Club
Melbourne
Word on the street is another 3 players have bailed from The Rams taking the total to 12 senior players. The heart and soul and even the boot studder is leaving this club which is pretty sad given the proud history this club has in the EFL.
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
Word on the street is another 3 players have bailed from The Rams taking the total to 12 senior players. The heart and soul and even the boot studder is leaving this club which is pretty sad given the proud history this club has in the EFL.
Those people leaving are hardly the heart and soul of the club!
East Burwood's problem is a lack of Under 19's. Before they worry about player payments and senior success they should expend as much or more effort getting an under 19 team up, or making sure that one comes through in the next couple of years. Without juniors, long-term, clubs are doomed.
 

biteme

Senior List
Sep 12, 2006
199
35
essendon
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Those people leaving are hardly the heart and soul of the club!
East Burwood's problem is a lack of Under 19's. Before they worry about player payments and senior success they should expend as much or more effort getting an under 19 team up, or making sure that one comes through in the next couple of years. Without juniors, long-term, clubs are doomed.

My Nephew plays in EB u14A team, saw them last week they looked awesome 2 kids kicked bags of seven, they'd probably beat the u19's lol,
 

switch play

Draftee
May 10, 2015
8
1
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Two clubs have folded there U19 this season after nine rounds, getting harder for all cubs to convince this age group to put the time and effort in

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

Vanderhum

Senior List
Mar 16, 2011
173
36
Ivanhoe
AFL Club
Melbourne
Those people leaving are hardly the heart and soul of the club!
East Burwood's problem is a lack of Under 19's. Before they worry about player payments and senior success they should expend as much or more effort getting an under 19 team up, or making sure that one comes through in the next couple of years. Without juniors, long-term, clubs are doomed.

The intent of my comment is not the heart soul of those who left but more the ones left behind. Agree a strong junior program is the key to senior longevity and success.
 

hairy19

Draftee
Apr 15, 2015
7
0
AFL Club
Essendon

Div 3 is a tough division to get out of once you are there. Take a look at Boronia and Mitcham, been there for years and haven't been able to get out. Ringwood as well. The Rams need to stay up in Div 2 IMO, do enough to stay up and you can build. 12 teams in Div 3, its hard to get out of there once you get there. It can be done no doubt (Doncaster did it) and so I wish them all the best. They are a super club the RAMS.
 

hairy19

Draftee
Apr 15, 2015
7
0
AFL Club
Essendon
Can you introduce me to these guys in their early 30's that are volunteers at EB? I will get them to the President who has an abundance of jobs to fill. My feet are firmly on the ground and I can tell you that the core group of volunteers are the same group of people who have done all the work for the past 12 years and more (minus those who have passed away or have had to pull out due to ill health) which are all 50+. This year was the rebuild year.

I have to agree, I played at the Rams in 1996,97,98 and when I returned to play finals at the ground in 2013,14 there are still the same old faces from when I was there. Very loyal servants of that club week in, week out. They have done there shift, time for the new generation to step up and take over some responsibility. But unfort there are not enough of these people around anymore, they dont make them like John Trollope anymore.
 

hairy19

Draftee
Apr 15, 2015
7
0
AFL Club
Essendon
Well East Burwood has made the hard call. They advised players that they cannot sustain the current player payments and advised them them that there will be a 50% pay cut. They have done this before the transfer cut off and any player wishing to leave will be cleared straight away. Gone are the Jacksons, Hughes, McKenzie so far. Watch the transfers I guess.

Piss poor, see the season out at a minimum
 

smy1305

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 27, 2011
6,354
2,587
Buderim
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I see a couple of EDFL teams were drug tested last weekend by ASADA after a tip off. Can only be a good thing. Doutta All Stars and another one from memory.
With the situation with Phil Walsh's son and the reported taking of Ice by many suburban footy players prior to games, some people just need saving from themselves!
 

Bobby Beecroft

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 25, 2003
5,572
1,811
Junction Oval Goalsquare
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions THFC
I see a couple of EDFL teams were drug tested last weekend by ASADA after a tip off. Can only be a good thing. Doutta All Stars and another one from memory.
With the situation with Phil Walsh's son and the reported taking of Ice by many suburban footy players prior to games, some people just need saving from themselves!

I am not convinced it is a good thing until clubs & players are aware as to what they are being tested for.

Completely agree with thoughts of Cameron Cloke in that if they intent to test these Leagues then there is a need to educate the players as to what and isn't banned (if this is the motive behind the testing). That would be terribly expensive. I would hate for a local player to face an Amad Saad situation.
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
I am not convinced it is a good thing until clubs & players are aware as to what they are being tested for.

Completely agree with thoughts of Cameron Cloke in that if they intent to test these Leagues then there is a need to educate the players as to what and isn't banned (if this is the motive behind the testing). That would be terribly expensive. I would hate for a local player to face an Amad Saad situation.

There are players all over suburban football taking steroids, creatine, all sorts of supplements and things that they're not allowed to take, and they know they're not allowed to take.

I do like to think that if somebody played after a week of prescription drugs that are technically banned, but were taken on doctors orders, that they would be shown leniency (face no sanction, providing a decent excuse).

But if they're catching people roided up to the eyeballs or using amphetamines, then those guys should cop the two year ban, if not for their own sake, but also the sake of the sport. It's a big business these days in the suburbs, if ASADA have the resources to help the EDFL or EFL who couldn't do this testing themselves, then I'm all for it.
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
I am not convinced it is a good thing until clubs & players are aware as to what they are being tested for.

Completely agree with thoughts of Cameron Cloke in that if they intent to test these Leagues then there is a need to educate the players as to what and isn't banned (if this is the motive behind the testing). That would be terribly expensive. I would hate for a local player to face an Amad Saad situation.

If they're taking a banned substance (with perhaps some more leniency for being stupid), they get a year or two off their sport. It's a much lesser penalty than Saad who had his livelihood taken away.
 

smy1305

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 27, 2011
6,354
2,587
Buderim
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Well when you have guys ringing up radio stations and saying not only are they doing it, but half their team, whacking some ice into their body pre game for no other reason but to give themselves an advantage, I reckon 2 years is damn light....
Creatine is legal from my understanding Saint...
Education is one thing Bobby but all sportspeople are educated in the fact that if you are going to put a drug into your body, prescribed or not, to at least ask the question of your doctor. I reckon if ASADA were to test spasmodically, not unlike random breath testing, then a whole lot of this might go away. All I'm saying is, like cocaine, people believe they can be casual users. Unfortunately the nature of the drug does not allow this to occur. People might someone, who knows someone that uses occasionally but i reckon you can guarantee that this same person will be a physical mess in 12 mths time. And in any case even if they could, why should others have to put up with a complete uncontrollable fwit in their midst?
 

Bobby Beecroft

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 25, 2003
5,572
1,811
Junction Oval Goalsquare
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions THFC
Creatine is legal from my understanding Saint...
Education is one thing Bobby but all sportspeople are educated in the fact that if you are going to put a drug into your body, prescribed or not, to at least ask the question of your doctor.

Just those 2 lines support my statement. People come here & say it is a good thing but then are unaware as to whether a product is legal or not. There needs to be education, as there are just way to many grey areas and I am not talking the obvious - speed, ice, etc.

Anyway looks like the EFL appear to have completed their diligence with a half-baked warning on their website. If you are not sure simply 'Before you purchase or use any substances review the ASADA website or contact the ASADA hotline'.

Even Richard Ings has come & stated that AFL Victoria need to do more prior to testing.
“It is absolutely critical that the governing bodies of all sports ensure that the competitors in their competition are absolutely crystal clear on their rights, responsibilities and obligations under the anti-doping rules of their sport,” Ings said.

“It defies good practice for community level football players to be subject to testing before they have received any education whatsoever.”

Ings said with ingredients in many common medications on the banned list, undertaking testing before educating players was alarming.

“These people just don’t know,” he said.

“There are any number of common medications that an athlete could legitimately take which may trigger a positive drug test".

The estimated cost of the EDFL tests on 4 players is $10,000.
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
I agree that education is lacking, but that and the high cost are no reason not to police it.

By all means, reduce penalties where a player has taken something inadvertently. But if they're caught with anabolic steroids or amphetamines, throw the book at them.

A lot of the guys on gear aren't doing it because they need more education. They know it's wrong but they know it's never been policed.
 
Back