NO TROLLS EDDIE BETTS, JOSH JENKINS & the Crow's Camp. A knife, a harness and the ‘power stance’: Eddie Betts reveals ‘cult-like’ training camp

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Bluelegs

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Background info on camp "facilitators".

Regarding the professional credibility of the setup:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...roup-that-ran-crows-camp-20180328-p4z6qt.html


Regarding co-founder Amon Woulfe's credibility:
#76 - Amon Woulfe - Out Of Your Mind - The Chief Life

Relevant video from Woulfe's youtube channel:


Regarding co-founder Derek Leddie's psychology credentials:
Speakers | Australian HR Institute


Regarding the reputation of the 'Mankind Project' in the past (the Crows camp was titled the Mankind project, I think I did previously find articles linking Woulfe to the US Mankind Project but can't seem to find them now. His fixation on testicles fits with the Mankind Project's genital obsession, as does the accounts in below article with the Crows camp essentially being a toned down version):
Houston Press | The Leading Independent News Source in Houston, Texas

On Mankind Project philosophy:
ManKind Project


Interestingly using wayback machine you can see an interesting edit to this PR statement, the older version reads:


Re; nudity the same page has a damage control PR statement:

The older version of this page also has more direct damage control along these lines which has since been removed:



Regarding Collective Minds professional reputation in the present:
https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/mind-t...afl-camp/fb84f22e-95bc-40f0-ab11-f656d998b780

The ball cupping is starting to make much more sense now.
 

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gouki88

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Do you think if something traumatic happened in your life the players will come to your defence and feel empathetic towards you?
I'm not quite sure you have any understanding of what empathy actually is. It's not something that is dependent on others feeling it for you
 

Stumpy Pete

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Do you think if something traumatic happened in your life the players will come to your defence and feel empathetic towards you?
Given how regularly players from all
clubs support a variety of charity and advocacy groups, how often you see them beside hospital beds of terminally ill kids and participating in make-a-wish type events I think the answer is emphatically “yes”.

Regards

S. Pete
 

Hollow Knight

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Given how regularly players from all
clubs support a variety of charity and advocacy groups, how often you see them beside hospital beds of terminally ill kids and participating in make-a-wish type events I think the answer is emphatically “yes”.

Regards

S. Pete

We now live in a world where being an unashamedly self-centred and boorish asshole makes you an “Alpha” and those who show any concern or empathy for the welfare and rights of others are “woke” soyboy beta cucks.

The age of the fragile, insecure man baby goes on.
 

Festerz

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Sorry to invoke Godwins Law but the time has come.

Crows Board, AFL, AFLPA. WorkSafe SA, Adelaide media all now saying we didn't know?

Reminds me of the silence surrounding certain other notorious camps in history.
 

Ricketz

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Sorry to invoke Godwins Law but the time has come.

Crows Board, AFL, AFLPA. WorkSafe SA, Adelaide media all now saying we didn't know?

Reminds me of the silence surrounding certain other notorious camps in history.
How did Australia's culture get like this?

1994 I went to a college at Sydney University well known for hazing. It was Lord of the Flies type stuff and a couple of students denfenestrated from the fourth floor.

Later, I think around the 2000's that same college hit the headlines for putting a girl in hospital.

We seem to be devolving. Where has our heart, our compassion gone?
 

SellarStardom

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This was handled by the entire AFL community in the most pathetic way possible.

It's clear that for some players, the camp was rewarding, weird, but they got things out of it.

BUT for others it wasn't good. The fact that the two loudest voices were Jenkins and Betts probably doesn't help the approach taken. Jenkins is viewed as a opinionated twat so I can assume his complaints were dismissed. Eddie's comments I suspect was dealt with by a "oh sh*t there is some cultural issues here" by the Crows and the AFL. Basically they didn't know what to do, so they did nothing.

Terrible handling. There is no way the Crows, AFL, AFLPA didn't know, they didn't want to know was the reality.

The collective "let's not let this happen again and sweep it under the carpet"
 

Capt Haddock

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How did Australia's culture get like this?

1994 I went to a college at Sydney University well known for hazing. It was Lord of the Flies type stuff and a couple of students denfenestrated from the fourth floor.

Later, I think around the 2000's that same college hit the headlines for putting a girl in hospital.

We seem to be devolving. Where has our heart, our compassion gone?

Although far from solely responsible, I’ve always thought children overboard was a defining moment in a definite change in Australia’s collective psyche. People were given a free pass to be grossly intolerant and cruel by the very highest authorities.
 

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gouki88

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How did Australia's culture get like this?

1994 I went to a college at Sydney University well known for hazing. It was Lord of the Flies type stuff and a couple of students denfenestrated from the fourth floor.

Later, I think around the 2000's that same college hit the headlines for putting a girl in hospital.

We seem to be devolving. Where has our heart, our compassion gone?
You rang?

MV5BNzk4NmU1NjYtODJjNy00ZDhiLTk1ZjctZmU3YWVhYzMxYThiXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzI2MDEwNA@@._V1_.jpg
 

Richard Pryor

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How did Australia's culture get like this?

1994 I went to a college at Sydney University well known for hazing. It was Lord of the Flies type stuff and a couple of students denfenestrated from the fourth floor.

Later, I think around the 2000's that same college hit the headlines for putting a girl in hospital.

We seem to be devolving. Where has our heart, our compassion gone?
Personally I take a more optimistic view, I think it's more that it used to be far worse where stuff like this wouldn't even make it to journalists. Everyone just bottled it up entirely. Now a lights being shone on stuff like this, so there's some pushback, but overall it's progress rather than regression (another factor is that with social media you can see the unfiltered opinions of the "great unwashed", whereas in the past it was easy for the media to put a high sheen gloss over demographics and present a domesticated, focus group tested, representation of their opinions).

I don't think the world is worse now, we just know more about what's going on in it.
 

1970crow

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Jun 7, 2011
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This was handled by the entire AFL community in the most pathetic way possible.

It's clear that for some players, the camp was rewarding, weird, but they got things out of it.

BUT for others it wasn't good. The fact that the two loudest voices were Jenkins and Betts probably doesn't help the approach taken. Jenkins is viewed as a opinionated twat so I can assume his complaints were dismissed. Eddie's comments I suspect was dealt with by a "oh sh*t there is some cultural issues here" by the Crows and the AFL. Basically they didn't know what to do, so they did nothing.

Terrible handling. There is no way the Crows, AFL, AFLPA didn't know, they didn't want to know was the reality.

The collective "let's not let this happen again and sweep it under the carpet"

We didn't do nothing, we actively silenced and isolated them. Pyke would have enjoyed punishing the complainers further as in his mind, it was their weakness that cost him being a flag coach. The more you complain, the more treatment you deserve.
 

Ricketz

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Personally I take a more optimistic view, I think it's more that it used to be far worse where stuff like this wouldn't even make it to journalists. Everyone just bottled it up entirely. Now a lights being shone on stuff like this, so there's some pushback, but overall it's progress rather than regression (another factor is that with social media you can see the unfiltered opinions of the "great unwashed", whereas in the past it was easy for the media to put a high sheen gloss over demographics and present a domesticated, focus group tested, representation of their opinions).

I don't think the world is worse now, we just know more about what's going on in it.
Man, I hope so. It makes sense, but it just seems like people are collateral for the movers and shakers these days.
 

Soggy2112

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Aug 6, 2021
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This was handled by the entire AFL community in the most pathetic way possible.

It's clear that for some players, the camp was rewarding, weird, but they got things out of it.

BUT for others it wasn't good. The fact that the two loudest voices were Jenkins and Betts probably doesn't help the approach taken. Jenkins is viewed as a opinionated twat so I can assume his complaints were dismissed. Eddie's comments I suspect was dealt with by a "oh sh*t there is some cultural issues here" by the Crows and the AFL. Basically they didn't know what to do, so they did nothing.

Terrible handling. There is no way the Crows, AFL, AFLPA didn't know, they didn't want to know was the reality.

The collective "let's not let this happen again and sweep it under the carpet"
Jenkins complaints were likely dismissed in part because of how poorly he played in the 2017 GF.

It’s now clear that Pyke and co. blamed the players for being mentally weak.

Jenkins talked about an exercise where they had to stand around and abuse Walker (as captain) for his performance in the GF.

So I imagine when complaints were made that Pyke would justify it as Jenkins being weak. “See, Tex is willing to cop it, why aren’t you?” is the kind of thought process I can see him having.
 

Festerz

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ABC Sports program Offsiders gives the camp, the crows and the AFL a huge spray.

Crows camp section starts from around the 11 minute mark.

Indigenous ABC Commentator Charlie King's comment sums it up in just a few words:

'Here's one club doing the same thing over and over again...'
 

JennyTaylor

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Apr 29, 2022
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Remember the "power stance" the Crows adopted at the time too. Someone was appointed to the club to build mental toughness. Wouldn't be hard to isolate who that person is.

Yes Pyke and Riccuito are stained by this camp, but the appointment of that particular psychologist needs more scrutiny.
 

Soggy2112

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Aug 6, 2021
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Remember the "power stance" the Crows adopted at the time too. Someone was appointed to the club to build mental toughness. Wouldn't be hard to isolate who that person is.

Yes Pyke and Riccuito are stained by this camp, but the appointment of that particular psychologist needs more scrutiny.
I’m not sure you’re following this, CM are those people, there was no psychologist.
 

STFU Donnie

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I thought Nick Reiwoldt in the post game spotlight last night was great. He is calling a spade a spade and his comments about the AFLPA produced an awkward silence from the rest of the panel.

It gave me the feeling they know a lot more about the strongarm tactics the executive use to keep the players association under heel.

People should be interested in that side of the equation too - how much influence has the executive had on salary negotiations and how much representation do these young kids really have.

I keep going back to the fact that most of them are just kids with mature bodies, willing to sell their spleens and put their bodies on the line for one chance at an AFL game.

The scales are tipped badly against them, and we need to do better to protect them. This Roman circus of fans baying for blood - we are all part of this failure.

Didn't see it. What did he say?

Cheers
 

Osho

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Tiges won the 2017 flag by being care-free. They continued this for their time at the top, and developed it further. When things were getting tough during COVID they rediscovered fun and joy, that's where the resilience came from. They already had the discipline and process. That 17 camp seems so old school and backward. Crows lost perspective. It is like some mass autism took over the club.
 

Chuckie357

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Not sure if anyone heard it, but on Adelaide radio on Saturday morning on triple m, the panel/hosts defended riciutto immensely